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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Problems posting on forum
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4481
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 14 Jun 2020, 08:24    Post subject:  

MochiMoppel wrote:
rockedge wrote:
The window of opportunity to run tests that I offered to upgrade the software and include all the million or so threads contained in the original is closing."

Waited 6+ months and not a peep. So 4 more weeks the test site will run and then I will remove it and work on something else.
I didn't know that your testsite exists. Searched all your previous posts and found a link in the "Forum sucks" thread of user bark-woof-fetch. I tend to ignore such posts. I agree that your testsite is much better than the current forum but as long as it's hidden in the dark you can't expect the response your efforts surely deserve. Or are you referring to response from John Murga?


It was earlier announced here and here

Pity that it didn't seem to work out, rockedge did great work, I guess all depends on John Murga's co-operation to transfer everything, but looks like he's not reachable.
(on second thought, how to get permissions to transfer from the 42000+ users ?)

Fred

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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2075
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 14 Jun 2020, 17:07    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
AFAICT it's got nothing to do with 'inertia' to the concept of a new site. Those of us who have tried the test site all agree it's miles better than the existing site, in so many respects.

The issue is, quite simply this; John Murga cannot be contacted! Without being able to do this, the necessary 'dump' of the MySQL and phpBB stuff that rockedge needs to smoothy transfer from the old site to the new can't be obtained.....and without the databases, the transfer (or 'upgrade') will never take place.


I too originally doubted any new site for two simple reasons:

1. The historic content of the origin forum contains a lot of valuable information and so I felt a new site would be no good without that.

and

2. The user base. Murga-forum is long-established and people are simply used to this being the forum (regardless of it being like living in a house with the walls falling down.

But, when it comes to point 1, if John Murga is no longer about and not able to maintain the existing forum, which seems to be the case, then the forum either will collapse (losing all the historical information it stores, or it will keep limping along without maintenace ad infinitum. In that latter case the old information is not lost anyway, so it is perfectly okay to move to a new forum and link to the old information. On that basis there is another point to moving to what seems to be a reliable up-to-date new forum:

3. It actually provides a great opportunity to re-organise the useful information from the tons more of absolutely useless old junk and inter-mingled ramblings. So I've since realised that if you were able to 'import' the old database, whilst at least then having a copy of the old information on the new site you also however get a copy of the mess.

It has since struck me that it is in fact a waste of time and effort to move whole messy threads over to new forum. It is not in fact difficult for an individual developer to move the exact series of posts most relevant to their own contributions over to the new forum with the additional advantage the new forum allows very flexible organisation in terms of folder and subfolder forum category hierarchies and access control permission (including the usual read-only archives and so on).

So, it seems to me that the main real problem with the new forum is the lack of action by the existing user-base to adopt it. And what would help activate the use of the new forum most of all would be its adoption by key project developers, even if simply to duplicate some of their existing main posts and take feedback/contributions to that new location. The 'enthusiasts' of any such project would certainly follow (since that is where the project is). Personally, by the way, I have discovered that even a couple of interested project contributors is perfectly sufficient to make the effort of publication worthwhile.

And key to that 'encouragement' to particular distro enthusiasts would be the lead developer(s) of these key projects only thereafter taking feedback on the new forum. Fact is, in an active project, feedback and new ideas and contributions is regular and continuous - the new forum would soon start filling up with far more up-to-date relevant information to the historic mess of a broken forum that is currently being tolerated. History/relevant-information always repeats itself, but at least it has a chance of being re-organised better in a new environment.

The advantage in re-organisation far outweighs the effort and risk relying on the longterm continual operation of a who-knows-how-long-alive deprecated ghost. And plenty of scope in such a flexible new forum for the users (if only they would actively contribute to it) to help identify the most useful archived information for bringing across (many hands would indeed make light work of that and there is such a mix of mainly no-longer relevant rambling and some jewels that could nicely be sorted out).

Rockedge (Erik) can be your new 'John Murga' and in the circumstances I personally recommend that.

wiak

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 15041
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 14 Jun 2020, 18:16    Post subject:  

Sorry for the macabre question / dark humour:

Does anybody know if John Murga is still alive?
After so many days without receiving "signs of life" from him, has anybody who knows him
contacted the local police department?

Personnally I'd be concerned not hearing from a colleague or friend for such a long time.

Maybe he was killed by Col. Mustard in the library with the candlestick?
(Hopefully this sentence will remain a bad dark-humor joke...)

Just a thought.

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 13653
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 14 Jun 2020, 19:34    Post subject:  

Here's John's latest post in the Puppy Linux forum: May, 2018. He seems to be an ambitious guy and probably has a lot on his plate.
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1874
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Sun 14 Jun 2020, 20:34    Post subject:  

I have decided to keep the https://puppylinux.rockedge.org forum running to allow opportunity to explore it.

I agree with wiak after consideration the best method would start with a fresh forum with a structure that fits today's Puppy Linux AND we could link to the original murga forum to access the treasure trove of information and personalities all through Puppy's life so far.

The new forum software is the latest version available and is running on commercial grade servers.
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 15041
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 14 Jun 2020, 21:22    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
Here's John's latest post in the Puppy Linux forum: May, 2018. He seems to be an ambitious guy and probably has a lot on his plate.

I realize that, but in case it would have slipped people's minds, there's a pandemic
going on.

Don't you moderators have virtual meetings or exchange e-mails once and a while?
Twenty-five months without news of a person is an awfully long time.

The alternative is that the man is alive and well, but not giving a damn about the future
of this forum. (Sorry for being so frank.)

BFN.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Afterthought after reading rockedge's post above:
Isn't there a mirror of this forum on Archive.org?
(Curtesy of our unsung hero ally, perhaps?

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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 6397
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 14 Jun 2020, 21:42    Post subject:  

rockedge wrote:
I have decided to keep the https://puppylinux.rockedge.org forum running to allow opportunity to explore it.


A heartfelt 'thank-you' from me for that, Erik.

rockedge wrote:
I agree with wiak after consideration the best method would start with a fresh forum with a structure that fits today's Puppy Linux AND we could link to the original murga forum to access the treasure trove of information and personalities all through Puppy's life so far.

The new forum software is the latest version available and is running on commercial grade servers.


^^^ + 1.

Seconded. And I say this as a 'medium-term', active forum member; who, although he may well have a high-ish 'post count', doesn't in fact "give a monkey's" about such things anyway.....much preferring to let his actions/contributions speak for him.

I think we all know by now who can generally be relied upon to "help out", and to make regular, useful contributions to the community. I'm more concerned that our community be able to keep in touch.....whatever it takes, and however it needs to be achieved. This community encapsulates a fantastic bunch of individuals, and truly deserves to continue to survive after all these years.


Mike. Wink

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6735
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sun 14 Jun 2020, 22:44    Post subject:  

For what it's worth, in the past John has replied to my emails but it has been years ago.

I have already joined the new forum so I just hope we can keep all the mostly valuable information intact. No real ideas of how to contact John though.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun 2020, 12:33    Post subject:  

The one big question.

What forum is going to be kept up and running, year after year.
Whoever is supplying the forum, probably is the only one paying for it.
How long are they willing to do that?

This was always the question with the Puppy repositories.
That is why the main official Puppy repository is located at ibiblio.org.

Quote:
ibiblio.org was formed as a collaboration between the University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill‘s MetaLab, formerly known as SunSITE, and the Center for the Public Domain in September of 2000. At UNC-Chapel Hill, ibiblio is supported by the School of Journalism and Mass Communication and the School of Information and Library Science.

So, a major US university is paying for the repository.
Also, because of this, it gets mirrored by other well funded locations.

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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5834
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun 2020, 13:14    Post subject:  

I think this forum has been great.

Other fora have come and gone but so far this one continues to have a heartbeat.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2075
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun 2020, 18:08    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
The one big question.

What forum is going to be kept up and running, year after year.
Whoever is supplying the forum, probably is the only one paying for it.
How long are they willing to do that?


That's a very relevant question, and of course that has crossed my mind too. My view has been that a forum really is a forum and files and help topics and so on, should only be stored there temporarily. In that view it is up to the project creators and ideas/howto contributors to keep track of what is useful and store that on github, a regularly updated Wiki, or wherever they store things in a more permanent form.

One of the weaknesses of Murga-forum, and therefore Puppy organisation more generally, is that the Forum has become the main resource such that if it vanished a lot would be lost. Puppy Wiki, on the otherhand, despite great and ongoing attempts to add uptodate material to it, is full of obsolete and irritatingly wrong information, and does not contain backup information of much that would be lost if the forum suddenly vanished. Having said that, it is very difficult to keep up with all the information that can be contributed quickly to a forum; better if Wiki access was more connected and available easily such that, for example, forum howto posts were immediately also added to Wiki. There has to be a reliable guaranteed Wiki, even then, of course, but that is easier to arrange than a forum since the latter requires special server with phpBB running on it (though I suppose you do need special Wiki software too).

Why is it that puppylinux.com does not have a server for setting up a forum rather than just the Wiki?

Summary is that Puppy basically relies on a forum for most of its uptodate documentation, and that is unfortunate.

wiak

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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1874
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jun 2020, 21:06    Post subject:  

We need a program that will parse this forum with some neural network deep machine learning technique and filter out the how to's and other "documentation" and export the results to some thing like https://readthedocs.org/ or some other solution.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4439
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jun 2020, 04:03    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
He probably never hit the "Submit" button.

I believe I hit the "Preview" button, then when I went back to the text it was gone.
Hence there was nothing left to "Submit".

Flash wrote:
Sylvander, do you connect via wifi, or via direct-to-Ethernet cable? (No reason to ask, just making conversation.)

I connect via cable to my Virgin supplied hub, which NEVER gives any trouble.

By-the-way, I only found this thread by chance, since I'm not receiving any notifications of posts.
Hence the reason I haven't been replying until now.
I am registered as "watching this topic".

Last edited by Sylvander on Wed 17 Jun 2020, 04:13; edited 1 time in total
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4439
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jun 2020, 04:10    Post subject: Re: Problems posting on forum
Subject description: Just me???
 

Makoto wrote:
Is the post still up? Do you have a link to it?

My intended post was never posted, because all of the text disappeared from the composing window.

Makoto wrote:
The forum has a 'bug' where issues with the [url][/url] tags may cause the entire post to appear blank when previewed or submitted - say, for example, if you leave a trailing space within the [url][/url] tags with the URL. You can still edit or quote the post and see that all the text is there, but the forum will display a blank post.

I have never suffered from this problem, and I think it wasn't happening then.
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3444
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jun 2020, 04:23    Post subject:  

Can the contents on this server (the puppy forum) be backed up and stored somewhere else and/or carried over (with permission) to a new forum like rockedge's?
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