Real screen rez?

Message

gary · #1 Post by **gary** » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 15:41

While installing Pup4.30 to HD, Xorg asked me what screen rez I desired. I entered 1680x1050; the native resolution of my 22 inch monitor. However, things didn't look quite right when viewing pictures, so I decided to investigate...

When I look in HardInfo, it tells me I am at 1600x1200.

When I try to change rez with Xorg wizard / Resolution Changer, it only allows 1600x1200 max!

Who is lying? How can I tell what my REAL screen resolution actually is, and how can I change it if it's not right?

8-bit · #2 Post by **8-bit** » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 16:18

The question here is does your driver for video support that resolution?
In other words, does it show as a resolution choice in xorgwizard?

jemimah · #3 Post by **jemimah** » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 16:36

There's a nice screen rez utility here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=47603. Though it will only show resolutions that X has autodetected.

There are ways to adjust the xorg.conf to force it to use non-detected resolutions, but you'll have to google it since I don't know off the top of my head

If it's a laptop, make sure you are booting up with the monitor attached the whole time.

mikeb · #4 Post by **mikeb** » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 17:32

look for the resolution setting at the bottom of /etc/X11/xorg.conf and manually set it to your desired setting...keep a backup or rerun xorg wizard if it is not accepted...worth a try

mike

gary · #5 Post by **gary** » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 19:41

My viddy is onboard VIA PM400 & 8237 chipset. The Zarfy util also reports 1600x1200 (thanks jemimah), yet a tail dump of my xorg.conf clearly shows 1680x1050 - I don't get it???
.................................

Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Monitor0"
VendorName "Monitor Vendor"
ModelName "Monitor Model"
HorizSync 30-82
VertRefresh 56-72
#UseModes "Modes0" #monitor0usemodes
Option "PreferredMode" "1680x1050"
EndSection

Section "Modes"
Identifier "Modes0"
#modes0modeline0
EndSection

Section "Device"
### Available Driver options are:-
### Values: <i>: integer, <f>: float, <bool>: "True"/"False",
### <string>: "String", <freq>: "<f> Hz/kHz/MHz"
### [arg]: arg optional
#Option "VBEModes" # [<bool>]
#Option "NoAccel" # [<bool>]
#Option "AccelMethod" # <str>
#Option "HWCursor" # [<bool>]
#Option "SWCursor" # [<bool>]
#Option "ShadowFB" # [<bool>]
#Option "Rotate" # [<str>]
#Option "VideoRAM" # <i>
#Option "ActiveDevice" # [<str>]
#Option "LCDDualEdge" # [<bool>]
#Option "BusWidth" # [<str>]
#Option "Center" # [<bool>]
#Option "PanelSize" # [<str>]
#Option "ForcePanel" # [<bool>]
#Option "TVDotCrawl" # [<bool>]
#Option "TVDeflicker" # <i>
#Option "TVType" # [<str>]
#Option "TVOutput" # [<str>]
#Option "DisableVQ" # [<bool>]
#Option "DRIXINERAMA" # [<bool>]
#Option "DisableIRQ" # [<bool>]
#Option "EnableAGPDMA" # [<bool>]
#Option "NoAGPFor2D" # [<bool>]
#Option "NoXVDMA" # [<bool>]
#Option "ExaNoComposite" # [<bool>]
Identifier "Card0"
Driver "via" #card0driver
VendorName "Unknown Vendor"
BoardName "Unknown Board"
BusID "PCI:1:0:0"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "Card0"
Monitor "Monitor0"
DefaultDepth 24
Subsection "Display"
Depth 24
Modes "1680x1050"
EndSubsection
EndSection

jemimah · #6 Post by **jemimah** » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 20:05

You probably need to put something in for the modeline. X is probably just ignoring that bit about the resolution.

This would be a good starting point for documentation. http://www.x.org/wiki/FAQVideoModes

#7 Post by **Flash** » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 20:11

Gary, just out of curiosity, are things that are supposed to be round (the Save, Browse and Help icons on Puppy's desktop, for instance) round on your monitor with the resolution Puppy presently gives you?

gary · #8 Post by **gary** » Tue 10 Nov 2009, 23:17

The round icons seem to be slightly eliptical, but it's hard to tell since the two resolutions are close. Mostly I can tell by looking at pictures of human faces which seem to be slightly horizontally elongated compared to my Windows system. I run both systems simultaneously on the same KB, mouse, & monitor using a KVM switch.

It seems like there should be some definitive way of determining what the actual screen resolution is? The problem is, if you try to create a ruler type gadget, it gets scaled to the screen size rather than the resolution.

BTW, I know the chipset hardware is capable of 1680x1050 because I used to run this mobo with Windows on this same monitor. That leaves possible differences in the driver's between the 2 OSes?

Patriot · #9 Post by **Patriot** » Wed 11 Nov 2009, 03:38

Hmmm .....

Kindly verify and confirm your vga chipset ... In a terminal, do :

# lspci | grep 'Class 03'
# dmesg | grep agpgart

Assuming that your machine is intel based and the results from the above indicates either a pm8x0/p4m800pro/p4m890/p4m900 then you will need updated openchrome drivers to allow xorg to use those required resolution.

To recap:
1. Verify your vga chipset
2. If required, get updated driver
3. if driver updated, exit to prompt and run xorgwizard

Rgds

gary · #10 Post by **gary** » Wed 11 Nov 2009, 20:38

Thanks Patriot, I did the grepping and it reports that the chipset is actually a VIA km400. I will do some checking into openchrome and see what I can uncover.

The CPU/RAM are Athlon 1800 with 512M.

I looked in Xorg.0.log. There is a lot of stuff in there that I don't understand, but somewhere approx 2/3 of the way down the list is some text that seems to imply that 1680x1050 was tried, but not used due to clock or other hinderances. Here is some of the paraphrased text...

-----------------

(II) VIA(0): Supported Future Video Modes:
(II) VIA(0): #5: hsize: 1680 vsize 1050 refresh: 60 vid: 179

then later...

(II) VIA(0): Supported additional Video Mode:
(II) VIA(0): clock: 146.2 MHz Image Size: 473 x 296 mm
(II) VIA(0): h_active: 1680 h_sync: 1784 h_sync_end 1960 h_blank_end 2240 h_border: 0
(II) VIA(0): v_active: 1050 v_sync: 1053 v_sync_end 1059 v_blanking: 1089 v_border: 0

Then later...

(II) VIA(0): Printing DDC gathered Modelines:
(II) VIA(0): Modeline "1680x1050" 146.25 1680 1784 1960 2240 1050 1053 1059 1089 -hsync +vsync
(II) VIA(0): Modeline "1680x1050" 146.25 1680 1784 1960 2240 1050 1053 1059 1089 +hsync -vsync

Finally, ummm, later...

(II) VIA(0): Not using driver mode "1680x1050" (no clock available for mode)
(II) VIA(0): Not using mode "1680x1050" (no mode of this name)

---------------------

Is the Xorg.0.log recreated each time the system starts, and is it based on a startup discovery process that probes the hardware?

jemimah · #11 Post by **jemimah** » Wed 11 Nov 2009, 20:42

It's recreated every time. You might find this helpful. http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl

Patriot · #12 Post by **Patriot** » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 05:06

Hmmm .....

gary wrote:Thanks Patriot, I did the grepping and it reports that the chipset is actually a VIA km400. .........

Well, that explains a lot ...

The km400 is a unichrome chipset and have a fixed dot clock table. This limitation is probably due to general bios support if I recalled correctly (or maybe some h/w related thing, I don't quite remember). It means any resolution on the unichrome must use one of the supported dot clock values. The unichrome pro chipsets (pm8/km8) can do free mode select (ie. set to any resolution mode up-to the max supported).

First, I suggest trying the openchrome driver to see if it can use 1680x1050 automatically (yep, km400 is supported by the openchrome driver) ..... and ... you should try this running in ram (pfix=ram) or use a small save file ...

If that doesn't work, you may want to try adding the mode manually. To do this, first we need to calculate the values needed. Fortunately, there's a built-in utility to do just this and it's called gtf (general timing formula). The tricky part is to match the required resolution to the fixed dot clock table. I took a peek at the man pages and found 148.5/155.8/157.5/161.793 as a suitable dot clock value. You should try with the lower value first ... So, open a terminal and do this to get a modeline:

# gtf 1680 1050 60.555

# gtf 1680 1050 64.11

That should get you the values suited for 148.5 and 157.5 pixel clocks .....

Now, open /etc/X11/xorg.conf and find the lines:

Code: Select all

Section "Modes"
	Identifier "Modes0"
	#modes0modeline0
EndSection

and add the Modeline values, like so:

Code: Select all

Section "Modes"
	Identifier "Modes0"
	Modeline "1680x1050"  148.50  1680 1784 1968 2256  1050 1051 1054 1087 -hsync +vsync
	#modes0modeline0
EndSection

To get xorg to actually use this mode, look a few lines above the Section "Modes" and uncomment this line:

Code: Select all

	#UseModes     "Modes0" #monitor0usemodes

Save it and restart X to use the new mode. If it borks, edit the file again and comment out the modified lines above. If it works, maybe we can add it into the driver sources .....

Remember, the usual disclaimer applies .....

Rgds

gary · #13 Post by **gary** » Thu 12 Nov 2009, 17:01

OK, tried the settings for both refresh rates (60.555 & 64.11) and it didn't work. Out of frustration, I removed the mobo and installed a new mobo using VIA P4m800 with Intel P4, then reinstalled Pup4.3. It also booted in 1600x1200. I tried the refresh mods on it, and it still remains at 1600x1200. I wish I had another mobo with anything BUT a VIA chipset, but unfortunately I don't. I do however have an old ATI Rage AGP video card that might work (I'll try it right after I get out of here).

With VIA being such a popular chipset, I'm surprised that this has not been worked out yet. Except for the principle of it not working right, I could work unaffected with the wrong rez for most stuff. The problem is, I prefer the Puppy tools for photo & movie editing over Windows offerings, and there lies the rub... if I use 1600x1200 Puppy on my monitor, I have to live with fat people - lol.

ps. one last question... is xorg.conf generated once at installation time, then remains static after that? I wish I knew more about this stuff, but it seems to go well beyond the "Help" docs available to us great unwashed, so it's nice having folks around who can "grok" the problem.

gary · #14 Post by **gary** » Fri 13 Nov 2009, 01:45

OK, just to close this out, I'm good (uhhh screenwise I mean, I'm not implying my morals have changed... moohoohahaha!)

My solution: I substituted an old Biostar M7VIB mobo I had laying around wondering whether to throw out. Then I plugged in a dirty old ATI Rage 32meg AGP viddy, and I am up-n-running with 1680x1050 (and it shows in hardware info). My circles are round, and my people pictures are once again skinny.

This is great because the system is now built from otherwise throw away parts. The downside is I bypassed the actual problem, but can re-address it another day perhaps.

Thanks for all the help.

vtpup · #15 Post by **vtpup** » Fri 13 Nov 2009, 02:42

Just to toss in another bit of info I discovered some time back about altering modes (especially when using xvidtune) the 1680x1050 mode is a fixed preset mode.

To actually alter it and have it take effect, you need to rename it. something like "my1680x1050" or "1680x1050puppy" or even "1680by1050" will work. But if you keep the old name, it will ignore your custom values in xorg.conf and persist in using it's own preset for that.

Also be sure to rename it the same in all places it appears in in xorg.conf. That's three places in my installation.

Hope this helps someone, even though the OP resolved it via uhhh brute force methods

Patriot · #16 Post by **Patriot** » Fri 13 Nov 2009, 11:14

Hmmm .....

vtpup wrote: ........
To actually alter it and have it take effect, you need to rename it. something like "my1680x1050" or "1680x1050puppy" or even "1680by1050" will work. But if you keep the old name, it will ignore your custom values in xorg.conf and persist in using it's own preset for that. ........

Interesting ... I think I'll try the hint with a via chrome later ... I took a peek at openchrome sources and 1680x1050 is not supported as a preset ... I'll see if adding it in will do anything positive ...

The last time I was messing with gtf was with an nvidia card and it does not require the above unique mode labeling. I believe it's driver dependent, some does free modes and some has fixed preset tables.

gary,
If you're willing to be a test volunteer, let me know ... I'll then post a copy of the modified driver for you to try (when I have one) ...

Well, let's see how this goes ...

Rgds

vtpup · #17 Post by **vtpup** » Fri 13 Nov 2009, 14:31

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 90&t=35934

That's all I know about it. I think, looking back on it that my conclusion that it was a problem in xorg, as opposed to a driver may have been wrong. But the effect seemed to be quite common for a lot of people, so perhaps a widely used driver was the cause. Don't know. Anyway the effect and workaround certainly was demonstrable. I still need to rename altered modes in order for them to take effect.

Patriot · #18 Post by **Patriot** » Fri 13 Nov 2009, 21:07

Hmmm .....

vtpup,

Don't fret about it ... It's "normal" to assume that xorg is being difficult when it doesn't listen to you ... Its similar to why people assume CUPS is fully responsible when they can't print ...

I should clarify that you're generally correct on the modeline observation. I've done it both ways (same or unique mode labelling) and both works for me ... The actual reason for that could be h/w related, bios, driver, etc etc ... So, unless we have a xorg SME (subject matter expert) around, it's probably a hit-or-miss thing ...

In my case earlier on, I had a similar issue with a nvidia card that displays the desktop a bit too much to the right and xvidtune works just fine. I took a peek at the modeline and it uses the same standard mode labeling but with different parameters ... I've also made a few more quick tests and I can verify that both methods works with the openchrome drivers too (ie. same or different labeling) ... A quick test with an old ati card showed me that unique labeling is required ... Thus this indicates to me that it is very likely to be (internally) driver dependent ...

Rgds

vtpup · #19 Post by **vtpup** » Sat 14 Nov 2009, 00:40

When I initially had the problem, I had bought a new 1680x1050 Dell lcd monitor, and hooked it up to my NVIDIA GeForce FX5500 card. I hadn't installed NVIDIA drivers, and was running Puppy 4.1.2, so the driver was whatever Puppy and the kernel determined it to be. I think I did have the full Xorg DRI pet onboard, however.

Don't know if that's of any interest as a case that required the changed naming scheme.

I also wonder if the OP in this thread didn't get the hoped for results with the changes because maybe in his case he needed to change the mode name as well as the parameters.

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Real screen rez?

Real screen rez?