The Official Release of Lucid 5.25 (Lucid Five Twenty-Five)

[bigpup]

You did not do a Frugal install upgrade.
The best way is this example:
Upgrading Frugal install
Ok, here comes the good bit. Lets assume puppy 5.1.2 is released and you want to try it.
Create another directory called /puppy512.
Copy the three new files off the new ISO you have downloaded and place them in the directory /puppy512.
Copy the save file from /puppy511 to /puppy512.
Make the appropriate edits in the GRUB menu.lst file and reboot.
Select the new puppy 5.1.2.
It will load and convert your old save file to the new puppy. All of your settings and installed software will be available in the new distribution. The whole process will take between 1 - 5 minutes.

Well, I did that at first, but the old save file was not recognized. All my stuff was gone, as if I had booted with pfix=ram (I had not). Since I wanted to make major structure changes in my save file, to wit: make it smaller and use encryption, I did it the way I did.

What version where you upgrading to Lucid 5.25?
What did you name the save file?
The Luci versions look for save files named luci.
The finished Lucid 5.2.5 looks for save files named Lupu.
May need to change name of old save file.

[Luluc]

Why FAT? (ok, that's your choice, puppy is about choice)

Right back at ya: why not FAT???


Well, in fact, it's a combination of reasons. I've had this WinXP/NTFS partition for quite some time, and a FAT32 partition where most of the Windows programs are installed. I separate the programs from the system so that if I ever decide to format and reinstall, the programs and a few documents are still there, in their own partition. Additionally, that FAT32 partition is an exchange area for Window XP and Linux in case I need to exchange data between Windows and Linux.

Well, I almost NEVER use any of that Windows stuff at all. I have many times considered getting rid of Windows and the FAT32 partition for good. But I am always forced to remember that I DO need it:

* I need Windows to backup my PIM data on my BlackBerry at least once or twice a month, and do firmware upgrades although very rarely.

* If my Internet connection goes down and I telephone my ISP support, the first thing they tell me to do is "please open My Computer then My Network Whatever. If I ever mention Linux, they refuse to provide any assistance immediately. Telling them that unplugging the computer from the Wifi router and plugging it directly to their modem has no effect doesn't matter to them. They will absolutely NOT support Linux computers under any circumstance. I am therefore forced to have a Windows installation that will give them the kind of stupid "diagnostics" they absolutely require.

* Sometimes I need to scan documents, with OCR. The scanner works on Linux, but there is no decent OCR package for Linux in sight. In case there is, well, I already own a license for a Windows program, I am not going to buy another one. OCR packages are not cheap.

* Like I said in another thread, I sometimes need to defrag a USB stick so I can boot ISO images. Linux, in its infinite wisdom, says we don't need to defrag a volume, ever. Windows does what I need in this case.

* In case my notebook is stolen, I don't want the thief to boot into a very unfriendly Linux installation with encrypted partitions at boot up and format the whole thing in a heartbeat. No. I want them to boot into a very nice, password-less Windows installation with a key logger and a stealthy program that will "phone home" with interesting data such as current external IP, and maybe run an SSH server...

You see, I need Windows. In which case, I need that FAT32 partition that I almost never use. So I thought that is a pretty good place for Puppy to live in.

I thought about keeping Puppy in the root partition of my Ubuntu installation, but then I open /mnt/home and it's all cluttered with the Ubuntu stuff: /bin, /boot, /dev, /etc, /opt, /usr... That's how I decided Puppy should have its own partition, or at least a much less crowded partition. The FAT32 partition had only two directories: Programs and BlackBerry. Now it also has Puppy.

Why shouldn't certain system config files be stored in /root?

There are many of them there, all your browser bookmarks in ~/.mozilla (or whatever), all package information is stored in ~/.packages, lots of app configurations are in ~/.config, you will also find jwm settings, mtpaint, the list can go on.... and this is not unique to lucid puppy. All distros use $HOME or /etc (depending on how compiled) for config files, which in Puppy's case is root. BTW, configs in $HOME usually override configs in /etc.

That's different. Those are preferences on how to run programs. Those you probably WANT to carry around, across several machines, even machines you just borrow to run off a USB stick. But the catalog of installed packages should not be in /root. That should be elsewhere, such that it is effectively lost when the OS is upgraded. OK, we want to carry programs with us in our USB stick too, but that catalog should acurately reflect what's really installed. If a bunch of programs are not installed, they should not be listed as installled.

You probably did other unforeseen damage to /root/.packages. I would suggest going in there and replacing the folder /root/.packages/builtin_files with the original off the CD, also all the Packages_puppy-[whatever] files will be old versions, need to be replaced with originals OR update PPM (I would use the originals), also you can delete the "ghost" packages which you introduced, and also edit the user-installed-packages file eliminating the ghost entries.

You realise you may have other problems with this method you used.

HTH

Sigh. That is a lot of trouble... I will think some more about what to do. Thank you.

[Luluc]

What version where you upgrading to Lucid 5.25?
What did you name the save file?
The Luci versions look for save files named luci.
The finished Lucid 5.2.5 looks for save files named Lupu.
May need to change name of old save file.

I was upgrading from luci_256. I can't remember the name of the save file, but it was the default name, I didn't customize it. Now it is renamed to lupu_525.2fs. That was my misguided attempt to make Puppy 5.25 recognize it. It didn't work, so I created a new one, also because I wanted it to be smaller and encrypted. I know the current name because I still have it, but I am now running Puppy on a new save file.

[bigpup]

What version where you upgrading to Lucid 5.25?
What did you name the save file?
The Luci versions look for save files named luci.
The finished Lucid 5.2.5 looks for save files named Lupu.
May need to change name of old save file.

I was upgrading from luci_256. I can't remember the name of the save file, but it was the default name, I didn't customize it. Now it is renamed to lupu_525.2fs. That was my misguided attempt to make Puppy 5.25 recognize it. It didn't work, so I created a new one, also because I wanted it to be smaller and encrypted. I know the current name because I still have it, but I am now running Puppy on a new save file.

You needed to rename it lupusave.2fs
You could still use it.
Rename the old save file to lupusave2.2fs so it will be different from the new one you are using.
When you boot up, should be given choice of which one to use.

[01micko]

- Created a new FAT32 partition.

That's what prompted the question

[snip] But the catalog of installed packages should not be in /root. That should be elsewhere, such that it is effectively lost when the OS is upgraded. OK, we want to carry programs with us in our USB stick too, but that catalog should acurately reflect what's really installed. If a bunch of programs are not installed, they should not be listed as installled.

I see the point, but this is how Puppy has been structured for the last couple of years that I know of, maybe longer, so it is something that may have to be taken up with BarryK.

If you're careful then I can't see why you can't recover successfully. Just look closely in /root/.packages.

[Luluc]

You needed to rename it lupusave.2fs
You could still use it.
Rename the old save file to lupusave2.2fs so it will be different from the new one you are using.
When you boot up, should be given choice of which one to use.

OK, I renamed the new savefile to something else that Puppy would surely not find. Then I renamed the old save file to lupusave.2fs. Then I rebooted.

It works. I am using it right now.

But it is too big, ext2 and not encrypted. I want it to be smaller, ext3 and encrypted. What can I do short of creating a whole new save file?

[01micko]

Luluc

Do exactly what you did the first time except before you make the tarball remove:

/root/.packages/
/root/.usb-drive-log-probepart (if existing)
/root/.usb-drive-log-probedisk (if existing)
/root/.cache (if existing)


These are essential, I let you know if I think of others

[tasmod]

Firewallstate

I forgot to mention that I had also changed the startup of firewallstate and it should now appear much quicker. This should show after internet is up and a small activity should take place on the network tray icon showing this.

[Greatnessguru]

Psync ignores "Use UTC Hardware Clock" setting

So when I have the timezone set to other than UTC,
and "Use UTC Hardware Clock" is set,
Psync syncs the hardware clock to the timezone time
and ___not___ the UTC time.

Therefore, after a reboot, the system thinks the hardware clock is set to UTC
when in fact Psync had wrongly set it to the timezone time.
So the system computes the timezone time as an offset from the timezone time
set by Psync, and not as an offset from UTC time.

The workaround I use goes like this:

Menu>Desktop>Country Settings>Set timezone
- Set timezone to "UTC Universal Time"
- Set (check mark) "Use UTC Hardware Clock"

Menu>Desktop>Country Settings>Psync Time Server Synchroniser
- Follow instructions
- Psync syncs the hardware clock to UTC from the timeserver
because you set the timezone to "UTC".
(It should have done that because you
Set (check mark) "Use UTC Hardware Clock",
but that functionality is busted, remember?)

Menu>Desktop>Country Settings>Psync Time Server Synchroniser
- This time you just want to see that the
System Time (timezone time) and Hardware Time were set to UTC.

Menu>Desktop>Country Settings>Set timezone
- Set timezone to your favorite timezone
- Leave "Use UTC Hardware Clock" Set (check mark)

Menu>Desktop>Country Settings>Psync Time Server Synchroniser
- This time you just want to see that the
System Time (timezone time) is set to your favorite timezone,
while the Hardware Time is still set to UTC.

Eddie Maddox

[Luluc]

- Created a new FAT32 partition.

That's what prompted the question

[snip] But the catalog of installed packages should not be in /root. That should be elsewhere, such that it is effectively lost when the OS is upgraded. OK, we want to carry programs with us in our USB stick too, but that catalog should acurately reflect what's really installed. If a bunch of programs are not installed, they should not be listed as installled.

I see the point, but this is how Puppy has been structured for the last couple of years that I know of, maybe longer, so it is something that may have to be taken up with BarryK.

If you're careful then I can't see why you can't recover successfully. Just look closely in /root/.packages.

All my experience with Linux comes from Slackware and Ubuntu, both of which store package information in /var or /var/log. Seems like a pretty good place to me. Definitely not /root.

[willem1940NLD]

I downloaded a new 525-CD(iso) from ibiblio and performed "update" install to harddisk, so in fact replacing the 525 CD downloaded earlier from site as in topic start message.

Logically, nothing seems to change yet.

The Pidgin as offered in quickpet, "more Pets" is lacking the option "start minimalised only" and the puppychat(irc) present in earlier puppies I cannot find .....

Has puppychat-irc deliberately been left out?

Correction, Pidgin: I meanwhile found the rather deep hidden switch which was default "off".

[nooby]

Luluc take up something important here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 779#510779

Why it is important to have a working Ms Windows that one can use if needed by gear that don't care for Linux. Like some Smartphones, Certificates that the Security at the Bank says one need to be a trusted customer to them. Bank-ID as it is named here in Sweden. We also use it for doing Taxes to pay to the State and local commune each year.

And if one need to contact the ISP or to the Support on the Computer. Both get very unwilling if one say that one only use Linux.

And the worse of it. Read this but translate to your English because this is my crude english not the exact words.

* There is a Law suggestion that the whole of Euopean Union would go over to a install on every computer a Windows anti-vir that tell the ISP that one are clear on the computer one use. *



Are you aware of the implications? That means that I need to save at least one computer that is late enough to stomach the latest Ms Windows win XP so may be too old???

anyway if one don't can give evidence that one have used that anti-vir and report it back that it has cleared the computer then one are not allowed to be online at all.

so if that one goes through which I find very likely due to the total acceptance of anything that comes that way from the industry dominated by Ms Windows then one surely need to keep that dread on at least one hardware and to borrow the neighbor computer with Ms on it then they would realize that it is another MAC address so that is cheating they would say. And put the good neighbor in trouble too.

[willem1940NLD]

That Swedish monopoly/kartel attempt will no doubt collide with existing laws ....

[666philb]

I downloaded a new 525-CD(iso) from ibiblio and performed "update" install to harddisk, so in fact replacing the 525 CD downloaded earlier from site as in topic start message.

Logically, nothing seems to change yet.

The Pidgin as offered in quickpet, "more Pets" is lacking the option "start minimalised only" and the puppychat(irc) present in earlier puppies I cannot find .....

Has puppychat-irc deliberately been left out?

hi willem1940NLD, i not sure why chat isn't included in the lucid series. some of the pets from the ppm are setup for puppychat and some aren't. In pidgin you can choose the accounts option. add new account and select irc. and choose your nick. Then in the buddy list window, click the 'buddies' tab and choose 'add chat' and add #puppylinux

[chrismt]

I was wondering if someone will compile VLC 1.8

[RandSec]

* There is a Law suggestion that the whole of Euopean Union would go over to a install on every computer a Windows anti-vir that tell the ISP that one are clear on the computer one use. *

They could make such a law, but they cannot make malware obey. So this may not really be about malware.

Microsoft made a similar suggestion in the recent RSA conference, where they drew a parallel between laws to help stop biological epidemics and laws to prevent computer malware "epidemics." The proposal was for each computer to have a "health certificate" to be interrogated by the ISP. "No certificate" presumably would mean "no Internet."

The Microsoft proposal is particularly ironic, since Microsoft owns our malware epidemics, yet cannot provide a tool to certify a Windows installation as uninfected. Microsoft thus cannot provide a "health certificate" for their own products, yet argues that every computer should have such a certificate or not endanger the public Internet.

Basing "computer health" on whether the computer has recent updates and anti-virus is like talking about a recently-closed barn, where previously the door had been wide open. The issue is what is hiding in the barn, not whether the doors are open now.

There is no program which can find any possible infection. If there was such a thing, we could just run that before banking, and the online banking problems would be over. We are past the era when antivirus on an infected computer is likely to find serious malware. As a former "hardware guy," I blame the current computer equipment designs for not providing serious hardware security.

This sort of agitation, for a law which intrudes but does not help, would seem to be the typical signature of an intelligence operation. The idea is to get something they want which would not normally occur through improving technology. Microsoft Windows will never be secure, and some organizations might might want to keep things that way. The coming "SSL everywhere" and man-in-the-middle detection revolution will not much inconvenience an organization which can get through the OS at will.

In terms of malware, Linux has a small footprint and criminals avoid looking our way. However, in terms of raw vulnerability, Windows has had decades of interactive toughening which Linux has not had. We have relative safety NOT because we are stronger, but because we are a group the attackers do not want. But individual, targeted attacks are likely to succeed in any OS.

Security is my reason for using Puppy (I am using a LiveDVD right now, with no hard drive). Recently I have been pointing out that the Puppy firewall should be up and ON before the first network transaction. More generally, I would like to see the DVD file system used for a flash-drive boot, so I can (safely) pull out the flash drive after booting. I use Firefox because add-ons provide security features not available on other browsers. But I generally see little or no support for these issues. If security is important to you, you need to speak up to help define and support the changes you want.

[Terryphi]

I use Firefox because add-ons provide security features not available on other browsers. .

Opera incorporates security features in the browser and always has done. Firefox is a Johnny-come-lately!

[willem1940NLD]

@666PhilB: Last Lucid with puppylinux / IRC freenode chat (and/or automatically part of Pidgin) was 520.

[RandSec]

I use Firefox because add-ons provide security features not available on other browsers. .

Opera incorporates security features in the browser and always has done. Firefox is a Johnny-come-lately!

But does it really have the best lineup of security features? Since I know nothing about Opera security, let me traverse what I do know about Firefox:

1) NoScript whitelists JavaScript by source URL on each web page. (There are often a dozen or so different URL sources on each page.) It also controls Java, XSS attacks, and other details not handled by Firefox.

2) Adblock Plus basically avoids ads, since ads are one vector malware can use to get executed.

3) Better Privacy removes "super cookies."

4) URL Tooltip puts link URL's in a visible tooltip. Normally the results toolbar will show the URL, but sometimes the URL will not fit there. It does fit in the tooltip.

5) Google Docs Viewer supports showing .PDF files as web page files, instead of downloading a Trojan.

6) Safe puts a colored border around an SSL-protected page. This simple addition is surprisingly important. Blue is full SSL security. Red shows that some items on the SSL page are insecure. No border means no security.

7) Certificate Patrol monitors changes to certificates, as are used to support man-in-the-middle (MITM) attacks on SSL.

8) Perspectives is crucial for SSL security. It compares the URL we see for a page to the URL for the same page as seen at other locations and over time. Finding a difference between URL's can be a sign of a MITM attack. This avoids some of the need to trust our fundamentally compromised certificate issuing infrastructure.

9) NoSquint is perhaps especially attractive for older users, since it supports independent page zoom and text font zoom for each web page. This allows the various site layouts to each be customized for reading, and the same layout to be recovered automatically upon return.

[willem1940NLD]

Firefox uses all my standard mediaplayers