The Future of Puppy Linux

[nooby]

Yes but we do have users that do expect that Lucid Puppy can use any kind of Ubuntu file directly from their repo without first being puppyfied and is that really so? ... So they do get the wrong impression from scratch and get surprised it is not as they expected.

Yes I know that Puppyite found a Barry quote giving that impression too.

Here is from yesterday what I talk about and ever since Lucid Puppy emerged I have also had these questions out of my own needs but I have not the antagonistic tone that I read into the following post.


http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 563#525563

DeXter says

Hi all,

Coming back to Puppy after a few years away as I want to install it on my netbook. Now I keep reading that Puppy is "built against" Ubuntu and therefore it's binary compatible with it. Now I'm not sure exactly what it means as an end user:

- Can I run and install .deb files?
- Can I add an Ubuntu repository?
- Can I install the latest Ubuntu mainline kernel and/or other drivers/modules?
- Can I get apt-get onto Puppy?
- Are *all* Puppy derivatives based on Ubuntu now? If not, which ones aren't?

I'll be grateful if someone could provide the above details. Thanks for your time!

I am not even on the level that I get his questions but I do wonder if one can really just take an ubuntu thing and it just works?

Don't one need to do a pet or sfs out of it to install it?

[jonyo]

and i'd rather not support whodo in any puppy development he may have involvement with

pot, kettle, black....jonyo

I'd sooner hear from WhoDo than you or Bernie....

Aitch

[puppyite]

nooby,
When I read your posts I hear chalk scraping on chalkboard. You are so thematically consistent you could create boilerplate and never write again.

[nooby]

Nooby asks

Can I really just take an Ubuntu "thing" and it just works in Puppy?

Don't one need to do a pet or sfs out of it to install it on Puppy first?

[Bernie_by_the_Sea]

Tending to keep on topic more than you in this thread, the future of Puppy depends on moving into the mainsteam.

Who said the future of Puppy depends on moving into the mainstream? You? That doesn't make it right! Who said anyone wants to "defeat Ubuntu on the battlefield"? You? That also doesn't make it right!

Looks like I did. You have reading difficulties? Look through the forum to find some of those who wish to defeat Ubuntu. It's certainly not my desire although I think it wouldn't be hard to do.

The only thing "sacred" about Puppy's size is that it tied to its support for older hardware that doesn't have the RAM to allow loading a full CD into memory to run! The "number" was, and has always been, related to the capacity of the hardware to let Puppy to run in modest RAM. There is still a lot of usable hardware out there that has 512Mb or less, and that's Puppy's niche. You don't like the niche? Go invent your own Puppy; reprise Fat Dog if you must. Just stop insisting that official Puppy meet your expectations in some mythological war between the various OS.

I pointed out two ways to have a regular size distro continue to work with modest RAM machines. Nothing says that Puppy has to work only with modest RAM. No one said I didn’t like or dislike anything. I certainly have no desire to invent my own Puppy. I did that once merely to show the stupidity of net paranoia. After I invented it I certainly didn’t release it. I created it solely for my own satisfaction. A new Puppy can be created in one day by one knowledgeable person. It’s just not that hard. I’ ve never looked at Woof and that might make it even easier. I have no idea what Fat Dog is or was. I was never into the Puppy cult seeking out all the flavors. I’m not insisting on anything and my expectations are that Puppy will remain primarily what it is today, a toy or game for hobbyists and tinkerers or a last resort for those who can't afford modern hardware. The war between some operating systems is quite real and some on this forum are active in that war, going into enemy territory to preach the gospel of Puppy and set them free from their chains.

Based on all that I've seen here, for a self-professed intelligent person you are capable of some pretty stupid statements! My granddaughter has more intelligence and she's only just learned not to poo in her own pants! It seems you've still not learned that early lesson!

From what I’ve seen you can’t refrain from dropping all those exclamation points! into your pants! It makes your statements look pretty infantile! not to mention pretty stupid! It smells! up the whole place! Let’s hope your granddaughter learns better than you and doesn't go around leaving a trail of !!!! all over the floor!

What some in this forum excel in is good old-fashioned name calling. Such a stupid! approach means they have no reasonable answers.

Another way to improve Puppy and make its future more secure is to distance itself from Ubuntu. Lucid was a huge mistake. Quit preaching that Puppy works with the Ubuntu repositories because in most cases it doesn't. Trying to ride on Ubuntu's coattails is doomed to failure. Ubuntu attracts dummies and Puppy has enough of those already. A much better approach would be the ability to use most Linux packages from any distro. That’s not hard to do either.

[puppyite]

Nooby asks
Can I really just take an Ubuntu "thing" and it just works in Puppy?
Don't one need to do a pet or sfs out of it to install it on Puppy first?

Thank you for confirming my hypothesis, RE boilerplate.

nooby,
When I read your posts I hear chalk scraping on chalkboard. You are so thematically consistent you could create boilerplate and never write again.

[L18L]

...
Update 5/22/11

I have requested that this thread be closed.
...

Forgive me, a foreigner who is not able to understand your statement, please.

The way to close, it is done by just adding [SOLVED], isn't it
Don't reply, just do it.
Thanks

[jonyo]

nope a mod or above have to or can lock a thread

the way it usually works here is you don't have to read what you don't like

[puppyite]

...
Update 5/22/11

I have requested that this thread be closed.
...

Forgive me, a foreigner who is not able to understand your statement, please.

The way to close, it is done by just adding [SOLVED], isn't it
Don't reply, just do it.
Thanks

Adding [SOLVED] indicates that the OP needs no further help, it does not prevent further posting. Also my OP was not a question.

[jonyo]

the pup forums are known to be highly tolerant of varying or contrary opinions

and freedom of expression

[Bruce B]

Considering the number of posts in this topic, I started at the end.
Then noticed this is heavy. Worked backward. Like starting at the
end of the book, and skimming through chapters going the wrong way.

At first I thought someone was bothered about deleted posts.

The highly active Puppy forums coupled with extremely weak
leadership by Barry has led to the mess Puppy is today.

Before I say much, I'll start on page one and read on through.

~

[puppyite]

Considering the number of posts in this topic, I started at the end.
Then noticed this is heavy. Worked backward. Like starting at the
end of the book, and skimming through chapters going the wrong way.

At first I thought someone was bothered about deleted posts.

The highly active Puppy forums coupled with extremely weak
leadership by Barry has led to the mess Puppy is today.

Before I say much, I'll start on page one and read on through.

To get the whole picture you will need to read this thread too.

[Q5sys]

nooby,
When I read your posts I hear chalk scraping on chalkboard. You are so thematically consistent you could create boilerplate and never write again.

Seriously Gerard... again is this all you are capable of?
Stop with the personal attacks. You continue to do it over and over when someone makes an argument that you do no like. Instead of addressing the issue you attack the individual. This makes you look as petty as a middle school bully.

I'll define this again although apparently you refuse to read and comprehend it.

This is what is called an 'ad hominem attack'. Short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity or invalidity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.

Ad hominem attacks are where you attack the person, and not the argument. If you can’t pick apart the argument being made, don’t go after the person. It makes you look stupid. If your response to my point is to attack me personally, you’ve lost. You’ve got no point to make, and you’re just embarassing yourself.

Abusive ad hominem attacks involve insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to invalidate your argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults your opponent's personal character or actions which have nothing to do with the logical merits of the your opponent's arguments or assertions.


You say:

Admittedly I have no tact or people skills. My only allies are logic and strategic thinking.

Well then show it. You're constant personal attacks are immature and childish.

[puppyite]

Q5sys,
In recognition of your hard work and innumerable attempts to get my attention I hereby award you this reply:

About attacks: Why would I want to buck the trend? There’s so much chum there’s no water left to swim in.

About logic: We, you and I, must agree to disagree.

Happy now? Can we kiss and make up? SWAK

[Bruce B]

Bernie, I found this piece of yours in the context you posted it. It
needs some serious going over. It is not good at all. I'll take it
a bite at a time. (what were you thinking?)

The highly active Puppy forums coupled with extremely weak
leadership by Barry has led to the mess Puppy is today.

Barry of course doesn't own or control murga-linux.com. The forum
doesn't have leadership. It's open forum with moderators and some
structure.

It is not Barry's position to be a leader here. Other places - sure.
Neither he or his work can be faulted by the forum high activity
level. They are separate and if people like the forum, that's how it
is.

I'm not saying you have the opposite opinion. I simply want to
clarify.

Your statement about Barry is ad hominem and unqualified and
unwarranted and provocative.

About

the mess Puppy is today

What mess? By what criteria and standard?

Puppy is not an enterprise. Barry isn't a CEO accountable to a board
of directors. He isn't focused on quarterly earnings.

Maybe Puppy is a more of a hobby. A genuine expression of Barry's
passions and love and creativity!

Barry makes a huge contribution. He and his team assemble and
package operating systems and support software. And the OS is
good, real good actually.

Sure it works, all fifty-five versions some totally
incompatible with the others.

In a way, I appreciate you are saying things like this, I mean with
this rotten attitude. One reason why is, it helps me to realize some
of my perspective and criticism has been messed up ALSO.

When Barry started with Puppy he didn't know the future. (of
course) No one knew exactly what Puppy would become. The whole
world of FOSS has vastly improved over the years. Barry has tools
to work with today he didn't have back the. Puppy has grown. Barry
has developed new ideas and well, some really creative ideas.

He had the courage to apply his creative ideas. Always striving to
make something better.

For myself, I don't use other Puppys. I start with the official
versions and setup my way with software I like, so on and so forth.

What I want to say is, I can take about any version he put out over
the years and do as I please with it. And there is a lot of sideway
and backward compatibility with other FOSS software. I mean a lot.

~

[puppyite]

My conclusion based on this blog post is Barry has ceded control of the main distro.

Unrelated observation: Who knew Bernie_by_the_Sea would ascend to rock star status in such a short time? Look at the attention and admiration he has garnered.

[MinHundHettePerro]

Unrelated observation: Who knew Bernie_by_the_Sea would ascend to rock star status in such a short time? Look at the attention and admiration he has garnered.

Unfair, innit ?

[puppyite]

Unfair, innit?

I'm not following you. Would you care to elaborate (plain English please)?

[Q5sys]

About attacks: Why would I want to buck the trend? There’s so much chum there’s no water left to swim in.

Wait... so now you're trying to use the excuse of 'well others are doing it so why cant I'? Are you serious. I think this is a perfect sign of your immaturity.

Not only are you personally insulting people but your defense is 'well others are doing it'.

Sigh, what ever happened to the days where people treated others with respect... Oh yea that went bye bye when people found they can hide online since they dont have to say anything to anyone face.

[Bernie_by_the_Sea]

Bernie, I found this piece of yours in the context you posted it. It
needs some serious going over. It is not good at all. I'll take it
a bite at a time. (what were you thinking?)

The highly active Puppy forums coupled with extremely weak
leadership by Barry has led to the mess Puppy is today.

Barry of course doesn't own or control murga-linux.com. The forum doesn't have eadership. It's open forum with moderators and some structure.

It is not Barry's position to be a leader here. Other places - sure. Neither he or his work can be faulted by the forum high activity llevel. They are separate and if people like the forum, that's how it is.

My sentence might be ambiguous. I intended that the words ‘coupled with’ separate the forums from Kauler’s lack of leadership of Puppy. I know he was never a leader here and stressed that to Grandma right after she/he joined with her/his criticisms of Micromuppy thinking it was both official and current, that it was Puppy. I know this forum is leaderless, which I think is good.

Your statement about Barry is ad hominem and unqualified and unwarranted and provocative.

Horsedroppings. It is in no way ad hominen to say that someone is not leading. I said his lack of leadership OF PUPPY, NOT THIS FORUM, is what led to the mess that is Puppy today, all 55-plus versions.

About “the mess Puppy is today.