The public figure i respect the most: Greta Thunberg

[musher0]

Hi, Leslie,

Thanks for calling our attention back to the basics. It is much needed.

~~~~~

One thing that David Suzuki mentioned in his "Legacy Lecture" is that the laws of nature
are the strongest. Stronger than the laws of the market and stronger than human
opinion.

No matter what anyone thinks, the laws of nature exist and operate. Who goes against
the laws of nature must expect to pay the price. Period. End of story.

~~~~~

As to the negative comments against Greta Thunberg, I suppose none of the members
here who voiced them took into account:
-- teen-age psychology: the teen years are the years when teen-agers develop a sense
of self through -- among other things -- belonging to a group: ethnic, global, musical, it
doesn't matter. It is human nature: you did it and I did it when we were her age;

-- teen-age sociology: teen-agers have become a force to contend with, especially with
Internet social networks. No they don't vote yet, but they now have clout. More than we
did when we were their age.

So good luck with those negative comments. The kids may just reply: "Ok, boomer!"

~~~~~~~~

So what's your next move? Muzzle any scientist saying climate change exists? Throw
dirt at them, damage their reputation as much as possible? Censor Greta and the
Greens generally?

~~~~~~~

One thing no one remembers nowadays is that the initial alert on climate change (under
a different name: Limits to Growth) was sounded by a small group of scientists called
the Club of Rome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_of_Rome
Now it is a a big organization; when it started (1968-1972), nobody was funding them,
they acted out of concern.

[musher0]

Hello jafadmin: You posted a graph. Two numbers appear at the bottom ... (357,63) What do these mean? Perhaps 357 readings (years) from 63 stations? Or (maybe) data from 63 years? Help!

Leslie

When I look at the title of the axes, I interpret it as:
357 ppm (parts of CO2 per million); 64 degrees F as average.

[Puppyt]

Right on, musher0, LNSmith...

"Anyone who thinks that you can have infinite growth on a planet with finite resources is either a madman or an economist."
- Sir David Attenborough.

And, not meaning to fan the flames, I found this perspective - *opinion* - also interesting https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-15/ ... n/11797210

[darry19662018]

Hi, Leslie,

Thanks for calling our attention back to the basics. It is much needed.

~~~~~

One thing that David Suzuki mentioned in his "Legacy Lecture" is that the laws of nature
are the strongest. Stronger than the laws of the market and stronger than human
opinion.

No matter what anyone thinks, the laws of nature exist and operate. Who goes against
the laws of nature must expect to pay the price. Period. End of story.

~~~~~

As to the negative comments against Greta Thunberg, I suppose none of the members
here who voiced them took into account:
-- teen-age psychology: the teen years are the years when teen-agers develop a sense
of self through -- among other things -- belonging to a group: ethnic, global, musical, it
doesn't matter. It is human nature: you did it and I did it when we were her age;

-- teen-age sociology: teen-agers have become a force to contend with, especially with
Internet social networks. No they don't vote yet, but they now have clout. More than we
did when we were their age.

So good luck with those negative comments. The kids may just reply: "Ok, boomer!"

~~~~~~~~

]

Yeah that stupid comment pisses me off when it is made from some of these kids as I have said have no life experience and should show more respect to older generations,

It is ridiculous how young some of these kids are who should be in school and then graduate live life and come back with some ife experience, without the we know everything attitude.

[Computer semi-expert]

The kids may just reply: "Ok, boomer!"

Did anybody read the Non Sequiter comic strip yesterday [Dec. 16]?

[musher0]

Food for thought: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsd1IT7ySfE

Excerpt about exponential growth:

"-- Hey, Jack, what have you been smoking?
We've been here 55 minutes and the tube is 97 % empty."

But these bacteria would be only 5 minutes away from eating all the food in the test tube.

It's the same with us humans and the Earth's resources. We've only got "5 minutes" left.

BFN.

[Moose On The Loose]

[... snip ...]
We've only got "5 minutes" left.

BFN.

In fact the case is a bit more like the Titanic somewhere before or after it hit the ice. Nothing happens suddenly. A slight change in speed or a bit further south and they would have made it to New York without trouble.

The oceans are becoming more acid as they absorb more CO2. In the mid ocean, there is not enough iron for the critters living there to turn the CO2 into other stuff. There is a limit to how much time the oceans can buy us.

[musher0]

Double. Sorry.

[musher0]

[... snip ...]
We've only got "5 minutes" left.

BFN.

In fact the case is a bit more like the Titanic somewhere before or after it hit the ice. Nothing happens suddenly. A slight change in speed or a bit further south and they would have made it to New York without trouble.

The oceans are becoming more acid as they absorb more CO2. In the mid ocean, there is not enough iron for the critters living there to turn the CO2 into other stuff. There is a limit to how much time the oceans can buy us.

Happy to see you're not putting yourself up for a Darwin award!

[jafadmin]

The oceans are becoming more acid as they absorb more CO2. In the mid ocean, there is not enough iron for the critters living there to turn the CO2 into other stuff. There is a limit to how much time the oceans can buy us.

A pH of < 7.0 is acidic. Pure water is neutral at pH 7.0. All the rainwater that falls in the ocean is pH 7.0. Ideal for saltwater fishies is a pH between 7.6 and 8.4. Above pH 8.7 is fatal. The Earth's oceans are at pH 8.1, right in the middle of the ideal zone, according to NOAA.

You guys are playing with words. For you, "less alkaline" means "more acidic".

According to the data, the oceans are a perfect pH. Deal

[musher0]

Your own personal data, no doubt. Because the real NOAA says otherwise:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:I ... VL%29.webm

General info about ocean acidification:
https://www.undp.org/content/undp/en/ho ... op-it.html

[jafadmin]

Your own personal data, no doubt. Because the real NOAA says otherwise:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:I ... VL%29.webm

General info about ocean acidification:
https://www.undp.org/content/undp/en/ho ... op-it.html

No, here is the real NOAA: https://sos.noaa.gov/datasets/ocean-aci ... urface-ph/

You seriously need to stop using wikipedia and the UN as data sources. Go right to the horse's mouth.
.

[musher0]

Your own personal data, no doubt. Because the real NOAA says otherwise:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:I ... VL%29.webm

General info about ocean acidification:
https://www.undp.org/content/undp/en/ho ... op-it.html

No, here is the real NOAA: https://sos.noaa.gov/datasets/ocean-aci ... urface-ph/

You seriously need to stop using wikipedia and the UN as data sources. Go right to the horse's mouth.
.

No, I don't!

Data, you said? Sorry, your reference is only descriptive.

You seriously need to come up with to-the-point references!

[jafadmin]

Your own personal data, no doubt. Because the real NOAA says otherwise:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:I ... VL%29.webm

General info about ocean acidification:
https://www.undp.org/content/undp/en/ho ... op-it.html

No, here is the real NOAA: https://sos.noaa.gov/datasets/ocean-aci ... urface-ph/

You seriously need to stop using wikipedia and the UN as data sources. Go right to the horse's mouth.
.

No, I don't!

Data, you said? Sorry, your reference is only descriptive.

You seriously need to come up with to-the-point references!

"Notable Features

The ocean's surface has an average pH of around 8.1, which is slightly basic."

You could have read that yourself.

[tallboy]

How many PCs and mobile phones are thrown away every day, due to the actions of Microsoft, Google, and all other companies making software demanding the latest versions of hardware? The same goes for Puppy Linux woof-CE, not building Puppys for old hardware anymore, making recycling a joke!

According to the new fashion of declaring a climate crisis each time some unforseen problem pop up, these companies and products should all be banned! Immediately! So, I expect to see you give up your hardware, and never appear in this forum again! Bye!

[musher0]

No, here is the real NOAA: https://sos.noaa.gov/datasets/ocean-aci ... urface-ph/

You seriously need to stop using wikipedia and the UN as data sources. Go right to the horse's mouth.
.

No, I don't!

Data, you said? Sorry, your reference is only descriptive.

You seriously need to come up with to-the-point references!

"Notable Features

The ocean's surface has an average pH of around 8.1, which is slightly basic."

You could have read that yourself.

I did. But you forgot to include the rest of the paragraph:

The pH of the open ocean is relatively stable in both time and space; however, the uptake of CO2 by the ocean has caused measurable changes in seawater. The imagery here shows the output of a computer model that makes predictions of how the pH will change over time based on best estimates of likely CO2 emissions (RCP 8.5) used in the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's AR5 assessment. The dataset starts in 1861 and runs through 2100

It mentions "CO2" and the UNIPCC -- to which you are allergic.
(One of the oldest tricks in the book of disinformation, partial quote.)

And then, faithful readers, please go to the NOAA animation on wikipedia I referenced
above, because the animation in jafadmin's reference doesn't work. TIA.

You could have checked that yourself, jafadmin!

[musher0]

On a tangent subject:

ATM, my thoughts are with the courageous Southern Australians facing unprecedented
bush fires. Experts say they were partly caused by Climate Warming.

Among other districts, the city of Sydney (5 million people) is surrounded by fire; under
siege, as it were.

Take heart, mates. It had a beginning, it has to have an end.

BFN.

[musher0]

Well, what do you know?
Climate-change skeptics have powerful backing from the enemy!

"Lors de sa conférence de presse annuelle, le président russe a soutenu jeudi
que «personne» ne connaissait les causes du changement climatique mondial,
semblant vouloir minimiser le rôle humain via l'émission de gaz à effets de
serre. "

Agence France-Presse (AFP) | Published on Dec. 20, 2019, 11h26.
Somewhat literal translation:

"During his annual press conference, the Russian President said Thursday that 'no one'
knew the causes of the global climate change, appearing to minimize the human role
through emission of greenhouse gases."

Source

On the same subject:
Putin says climate change not caused by emissions

"[...]
Putin had previously hailed global warming for exposing natural resources and transport
routes which had long been too expensive to exploit.

He had also once speculated that warming by "two or three degrees" could be a good
thing for Russians who would no longer need fur coats.

On Thursday, while his Finnish counterpart Sauli Niinisto called climate change a
'serious threat' for the Arctic, Putin said that it brings "more propitious conditions for
using this region for economic ends."

Source

[jafadmin]

Experts say they were partly caused by Climate Warming.

That, my Canadian friend is a logic fallacy known as "appeal to authority".

"Appeal to Authority
argumentum ad verecundiam

(also known as: argument from authority, ipse dixit)

Description: Insisting that a claim is true simply because a valid authority or expert on the issue said it was true, without any other supporting evidence offered. Also see the appeal to false authority."

Is it possible to identify your "Experts"?

[musher0]

Sorry for not including the source yesterday.
From ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation), "updated 7 hours ago" (sic).

[...]
Yes, climate change is involved

The records this week have not just been broken, they have been surpassed by big margins.

Professor David Karoly, a leading climate scientist at the CSIRO, said the cause was clear.

"We're smashing the extremes by effectively a degree relative to the other cases because that's by how much the Australian temperatures have warmed," he said.

Before this week the 10 hottest days on record were within 0.25C — the average maximum reached on Wednesday broke the hottest day prior to this event by 1.6C.

A range of natural phenomena were pushing temperatures up, Professor Karoly said, but on top of that was a trend driven by greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere.

"Climate change has contributed between 1C and 1.5C on top of the natural variability," he said.
[...]

Source; about a ¼ down the page.

As to CSIRO, it's a major Research Institute in Australia.
https://www.csiro.au/en/About/We-are-CSIRO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSIRO

For other expert opinions, you may wish to insert this search phrase

australia bushfires caused by climate change

in the Duck or the Startpage search engines.
There's quite a list.

BFN.