@mikesir,
I'm not sure which bit of that is relevant.
But Puppy can already store your boot loader on one partition, your Puppy files in a sub-directory of another partition, and store your savefolder on a sub-directory of a third partition.
gyro
FrugalPup 20 - Puppy frugal installer.
@bigpup,
In the day in IT, we used to have a saying "RTFM stupid".
Maybe that should be "COTFHB stupid".
But there definately needs to be a much fuller explanation, with an extra option to access the full information on the web.
Might say:
If you haven't a clue, click either "Ok" or "Help", (only politely).
gyro
In the day in IT, we used to have a saying "RTFM stupid".
Maybe that should be "COTFHB stupid".
But there definately needs to be a much fuller explanation, with an extra option to access the full information on the web.
Might say:
If you haven't a clue, click either "Ok" or "Help", (only politely).
gyro
@bigpup,
While I will add some more general text to the top of the "Select kernel boot parameters" dialog,
for the next version I intend to introduce 2 "modes".
"Easy" mode will show only a minum of dialogs required for a simple install.
"Advanced" mode will show all the dialogs.
There will be an extra button on the main screen to change the mode.
The default mode will be "Easy".
Dialogs that will definitely be shown only in "Advanced mode:
"Save partitions" - "Define a separate Linux default save partition"
"Select kernel boot parameters"
gyro
While I will add some more general text to the top of the "Select kernel boot parameters" dialog,
for the next version I intend to introduce 2 "modes".
"Easy" mode will show only a minum of dialogs required for a simple install.
"Advanced" mode will show all the dialogs.
There will be an extra button on the main screen to change the mode.
The default mode will be "Easy".
Dialogs that will definitely be shown only in "Advanced mode:
"Save partitions" - "Define a separate Linux default save partition"
"Select kernel boot parameters"
gyro
Thanks.bigpup wrote:That is a good idea.
Unfortunately that causes difficulty with yad, (which I am hoping to work-around reliably soon, I'm working on it.)
So, for the next version, I'm now taking another approach to do sort of the same thing.
I'm creating another simple alternate front-end for FrugalPup, (like StickPup), called "DiskPup".
"DiskPup" asks a minimum of questions:
What type of source?
Location of the source?
Location of the Puppy install directory?
Location of the fat32 boot partition?
Followed by a "confirmation" dialog.
Like StickPup, if you want more flexibility, more options, use FrugalPup.
gyro
Hmm..,
Instead of 3 apparently independent applications, I could have just FrugalPup, with 3 modes:
"Advanced", actually current FrugalPup,
"Basic", actually DiskPup,
"Stick", actually StickPup.
or
Just have a startup dialog that offers 3 facilities:
"Adavanced", "Basic", and "Stick".
On clicking on a facility button, this dialog closes.
gyro
Instead of 3 apparently independent applications, I could have just FrugalPup, with 3 modes:
"Advanced", actually current FrugalPup,
"Basic", actually DiskPup,
"Stick", actually StickPup.
or
Just have a startup dialog that offers 3 facilities:
"Adavanced", "Basic", and "Stick".
On clicking on a facility button, this dialog closes.
gyro
That would be good!FrugalPup, with 3 modes
Probably easier for new users.
Suggestion.
Have some information about what each mode does.
Example:
"Basic"
Normally minimum required options.
Usually, all that is needed for normal install.
"Advanced"
Complete user control, with choice of more advanced options.
"Stick"
Specifically for installing to a USB flash drive.
Also, suggest shown in this order.
Basic is first, then advanced, and stick last.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
@bigpup,
Agreed, but I'm still trying to get my head around how to implement the interface with yad.
Your "information" is a good start, but, I think I'd have just a wee bit more info for each mode.
Like "Basic" is the default.
"Stick" is a minimum option, option.
I would want it to be clear that "Adanced" is the full deal,
and the other modes are simpler minimum option ones, suitable for most situations.
I might go for "Basic", "Stick" and then "Advanced".
gyro
Agreed, but I'm still trying to get my head around how to implement the interface with yad.
Your "information" is a good start, but, I think I'd have just a wee bit more info for each mode.
Like "Basic" is the default.
"Stick" is a minimum option, option.
I would want it to be clear that "Adanced" is the full deal,
and the other modes are simpler minimum option ones, suitable for most situations.
I might go for "Basic", "Stick" and then "Advanced".
gyro
-
perdido
- Posts: 1528
- Joined: Mon 09 Dec 2013, 16:29
- Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?
Just ideas for thought.
----
Basic = typical (what a first-time user usually would choose?)
Stick = install to a usb device (or is it only going to be a stick?)
Advanced = All install options (or is it everything but the other two install options?)
-----
short simple descriptions are better for first-time users.
too many options/descriptions won't be read by first-time users
.
----
Basic = typical (what a first-time user usually would choose?)
Stick = install to a usb device (or is it only going to be a stick?)
Advanced = All install options (or is it everything but the other two install options?)
-----
short simple descriptions are better for first-time users.
too many options/descriptions won't be read by first-time users
.
-
B.K. Johnson
- Posts: 807
- Joined: Mon 12 Oct 2009, 17:11
gyro
Instead of questions about location, why not browser windows to navigate to desired location? May mean a little more programming, but easier for user and less risk of error.
Instead of questions about location, why not browser windows to navigate to desired location? May mean a little more programming, but easier for user and less risk of error.
[color=blue]B.K. Johnson
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM[/color]
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM[/color]
That is always a problem to solve.
Need to provide some useful information about what the choice buttons would do, but what is too little or too much information. Is everyone understanding it?
Really, to find out what works.
Just try something and see how people use it.
Ask for some feedback on how FrugalPup was to use.
OH, I think we are doing that now
Anyway, I think you are making FrugalPup be a much better program to use!!
Note:
In developing YaPi installer.
It had been released for some time, before someone posted about having problems translating some of the info statements, to other languages.
We had to do some adjustments to wording, so it would translate correctly, for complete understanding.
The person originally posting about problem, really did some good work, on helping with this.
Need to provide some useful information about what the choice buttons would do, but what is too little or too much information. Is everyone understanding it?
Really, to find out what works.
Just try something and see how people use it.
Ask for some feedback on how FrugalPup was to use.
OH, I think we are doing that now
Anyway, I think you are making FrugalPup be a much better program to use!!
Note:
In developing YaPi installer.
It had been released for some time, before someone posted about having problems translating some of the info statements, to other languages.
We had to do some adjustments to wording, so it would translate correctly, for complete understanding.
The person originally posting about problem, really did some good work, on helping with this.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
Secure Boot again
This intrigues me. With frugalpup_13 I can boot with Secure Boot ON, like bigpup.rcrsn51 wrote:I used frugalpup_13 to set up a UEFI flash drive. It had both .efi files.
I booted it on a machine with SecureBoot ON. But I got the same "failure to authenticate" error.
So I don't think that this is a one-size-fits-all solution to dealing with SecureBoot.
Are you sure it boots from the USB, in other words from the 2 efi? And not from your HD for example?
You changed the boot order in the BIOS/EFI interface?
.
FrugalPup v15r, StickPup v15r and DiskPup v15r - Puppy fruga
FrugalPup v15r, StickPup v15r and DiskPup v15r - Puppy frugal installer.
This is a preview/beta version of FrugalPup v16 which will be released in conjuction with mio16...tar
It's a "proof of concept" for a Puppy installer that uses only a single boot loader, grub2.
More on grub2 later.
Download extra sfs, http://www.mediafire.com/folder/rdyc5lg ... up_15r.sfs (2.0 MiB).
Package new features:
1. Full support for locating the frugal install directory on an f2fs partition, including the vmlinuz and initrd.gz files.
(This is the first FrugalPup to do this.)
2. A new simple front-end, DiskPup.
Like StickPup, it's a minimalist single wizard that completely installs a single Puppy.
Unlike StickPup, it does not do any formating of any partitions, so it is suitable for installing to a HD as well as a stick.
It allows for the Pupy install location and the boot location to be on separate partitions, even different devices.
So it is useful for settingup a Puppy device with 2 partitions, a fat32 boot parititon and a Linux Puppy partition.
3. The interface of the bootentry utility has been modified to reflect the requirements of this Grub2 only FrugalPup.
Although it can still produce a grub4dos boot entry if you specify the "g4dos" parameter.
Run "bootentry -h" in a console to see it's updated usage help message.
FrugalPup GUI changes:
1. A new dialog to enable the specifying "pfix=" boot paramater to override the one generated by bootentry.
2. A new "Settings" dialog, to modify the config file.
The top part allows the choosing which "optional advanced dialogs" should be dislayed by the "Puppy" facility.
These are: "Separate save partition", "Kernel boot parameters" and "Pfix boot parmeter".
The defualt behaviour of FrugalPup is for all 3 of these dialogs to be disabled.
The bottom part provides text fields to edit the list of "Kennel boot parameters" shown in the "Puppy" facility,
and the "Kernel boot paramaters" used, without question, by both StickPup and DiskPup.
3. The "ISO" facility has been renamed "BootCD", to better reflect what it does.
4. Some improvements to the descriptive text in some dialogs, (more needs to be done here).
Grub2:
The Grub2 code included in "grub2-efi.tar.xz", "grub2-mbr.tar.xz" and "grub2-iso.tar.xz" has not been "borrowed" from anywhere.
It is compiled from the source in "grub-2.04.tar.gz" from https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/grub/.
None of it is signed, so I'm fairly sure that it won't support "SecureBoot enabled".
I abandoned "borrowing" the consolidated debian grub2 efi code because it did not include the f2fs module.
Both the uefi and non-uefi codes work on the principle of a minimal "core" plus all modules.
So FrugalPup utilites always call the bootentry utility with the "fs" parameter to insert "insmod" commands for the appropriate fs-type module.
The directory structure is that produced by the grub2 utility "grub-install".
Except that the significant "grub.cfg" file is stored in the root of the partition, where it is easy to find.
i.e. click on the relavant partition icon on the desktop and it's right there.
Adding uefi booting to a fat32 partition, (which is the first partition of the device), is easy, even if you don't use any of these utilities,
use tar to extract "grub2-efi.tar.xz" into the root of the partition and then provide an appropriate "grub.cfg" file.
It would be a little easier if the grub2 package were installed in Puppy by default, so FrugalPup did not have to include it in "grub2-...tar.xz" files.
And the grub2 utilities such as "grub-install" and "grub-mkimage" could be utilised directly.
Hmm..., perhaps I should look at making a "grub-2.04.sfs".
gyro
This is a preview/beta version of FrugalPup v16 which will be released in conjuction with mio16...tar
It's a "proof of concept" for a Puppy installer that uses only a single boot loader, grub2.
More on grub2 later.
Download extra sfs, http://www.mediafire.com/folder/rdyc5lg ... up_15r.sfs (2.0 MiB).
Package new features:
1. Full support for locating the frugal install directory on an f2fs partition, including the vmlinuz and initrd.gz files.
(This is the first FrugalPup to do this.)
2. A new simple front-end, DiskPup.
Like StickPup, it's a minimalist single wizard that completely installs a single Puppy.
Unlike StickPup, it does not do any formating of any partitions, so it is suitable for installing to a HD as well as a stick.
It allows for the Pupy install location and the boot location to be on separate partitions, even different devices.
So it is useful for settingup a Puppy device with 2 partitions, a fat32 boot parititon and a Linux Puppy partition.
3. The interface of the bootentry utility has been modified to reflect the requirements of this Grub2 only FrugalPup.
Although it can still produce a grub4dos boot entry if you specify the "g4dos" parameter.
Run "bootentry -h" in a console to see it's updated usage help message.
FrugalPup GUI changes:
1. A new dialog to enable the specifying "pfix=" boot paramater to override the one generated by bootentry.
2. A new "Settings" dialog, to modify the config file.
The top part allows the choosing which "optional advanced dialogs" should be dislayed by the "Puppy" facility.
These are: "Separate save partition", "Kernel boot parameters" and "Pfix boot parmeter".
The defualt behaviour of FrugalPup is for all 3 of these dialogs to be disabled.
The bottom part provides text fields to edit the list of "Kennel boot parameters" shown in the "Puppy" facility,
and the "Kernel boot paramaters" used, without question, by both StickPup and DiskPup.
3. The "ISO" facility has been renamed "BootCD", to better reflect what it does.
4. Some improvements to the descriptive text in some dialogs, (more needs to be done here).
Grub2:
The Grub2 code included in "grub2-efi.tar.xz", "grub2-mbr.tar.xz" and "grub2-iso.tar.xz" has not been "borrowed" from anywhere.
It is compiled from the source in "grub-2.04.tar.gz" from https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/grub/.
None of it is signed, so I'm fairly sure that it won't support "SecureBoot enabled".
I abandoned "borrowing" the consolidated debian grub2 efi code because it did not include the f2fs module.
Both the uefi and non-uefi codes work on the principle of a minimal "core" plus all modules.
So FrugalPup utilites always call the bootentry utility with the "fs" parameter to insert "insmod" commands for the appropriate fs-type module.
The directory structure is that produced by the grub2 utility "grub-install".
Except that the significant "grub.cfg" file is stored in the root of the partition, where it is easy to find.
i.e. click on the relavant partition icon on the desktop and it's right there.
Adding uefi booting to a fat32 partition, (which is the first partition of the device), is easy, even if you don't use any of these utilities,
use tar to extract "grub2-efi.tar.xz" into the root of the partition and then provide an appropriate "grub.cfg" file.
It would be a little easier if the grub2 package were installed in Puppy by default, so FrugalPup did not have to include it in "grub2-...tar.xz" files.
And the grub2 utilities such as "grub-install" and "grub-mkimage" could be utilised directly.
Hmm..., perhaps I should look at making a "grub-2.04.sfs".
gyro
Testing.
FrugalPup v15r
Did an install to a USB flash drive.
Installed Bionicpup64 8.0.
Booted with no problems to a working desktop.
When selecting option for boot loader.
Selected both.
This is booted on a Chromebook.
It has a cracked bios that is modified to be able to boot something other than Chrome OS.
The bios basically works like a old style bios, not UEFI.
The USB showed as a USB drive as boot device.
Seems like the both boot loader option worked for this computer.
Wonder if putting both boot loader setup files on this USB flash drive, would make it able to boot on any computer.
UEFI and old style bios.
Tried the USB on a very new UEFI computer.
(Had to put UEFI in legacy mode to boot from the USB)
It showed two boot devices to select.
USB drive
USB UEFI drive
I assume that is because it has both boot loaders on it.
Tried to boot with each one.
Both booted OK.
FrugalPup v15r
Did an install to a USB flash drive.
Installed Bionicpup64 8.0.
Booted with no problems to a working desktop.
When selecting option for boot loader.
Selected both.
This is booted on a Chromebook.
It has a cracked bios that is modified to be able to boot something other than Chrome OS.
The bios basically works like a old style bios, not UEFI.
The USB showed as a USB drive as boot device.
Seems like the both boot loader option worked for this computer.
Wonder if putting both boot loader setup files on this USB flash drive, would make it able to boot on any computer.
UEFI and old style bios.
Tried the USB on a very new UEFI computer.
(Had to put UEFI in legacy mode to boot from the USB)
It showed two boot devices to select.
USB drive
USB UEFI drive
I assume that is because it has both boot loaders on it.
Tried to boot with each one.
Both booted OK.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
Had problems getting a Puppy to boot from an internal eMMC.
FrugalPup was suggested to be used to do a Puppy install to a internal eMMC.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117322
Using FrugalPup made the install boot-able.
The last few posts in the topic tell you the results.
FrugalPup was suggested to be used to do a Puppy install to a internal eMMC.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117322
Using FrugalPup made the install boot-able.
The last few posts in the topic tell you the results.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
The two devices provide boot as non-uefi and uefi, respectively.bigpup wrote:Tried the USB on a very new UEFI computer.
(Had to put UEFI in legacy mode to boot from the USB)
It showed two boot devices to select.
USB drive
USB UEFI drive
I assume that is because it has both boot loaders on it.
Tried to boot with each one.
Both booted OK.
You can tell the difference during the boot process, via the font of the display, this is most obvious for the console displays from the "init" script. During a uefi boot, these are quite small.
My desktop is a uefi machine with "SecureBoot" disabled and "CSM" enabled. My bios will display a non-uefi device even if I have installed only uefi on the usb stick, of course if I click on the non-uefi deivce the boot fails.
gyro
Thanks for this.bigpup wrote:Had problems getting a Puppy to boot from an internal eMMC.
FrugalPup was suggested to be used to do a Puppy install to a internal eMMC.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117322
Using FrugalPup made the install boot-able.
The last few posts in the topic tell you the results.
FrugalPup is mostly agnostic to the device itself, it's much more focused on the fs-type of the partitions.
My only guess as to why FrugalPup might work on an eMMC device where other installers might not, is it always defines the partition containing 'vmlinuz' and 'initrd.gz' by the partitions UUID. This is done by it's 'bootentry' utility.
gyro
A question
The current FrugalPup has a "GParted" button that launches gparted.
It's there simply as a convenience thing, and I'm thinking of removing it in the next release, since it's not an actual part of the FrugalPup utility.
Does any one have a preference for it to remain?
gyro
It's there simply as a convenience thing, and I'm thinking of removing it in the next release, since it's not an actual part of the FrugalPup utility.
Does any one have a preference for it to remain?
gyro
FrugalPup 15v - Puppy frugal installer,
This is a preview/beta version of FrugalPup 16 which will be released in conjuction with mio16...tar
It's a "proof of concept" for a Puppy installer that supports uefi "SecureBoot" using grub2 and a MOK.
Download extra sfs 'frugalpup_15v.sfs' from http://www.mediafire.com/folder/rdyc5lgzpeij1/frugalpup (2.5 MiB).
FrugalPup GUI changes:
1. The "GParted" button has gone.
2. The main screen now disappears when a facility button is clicked.
It then re-appears when the facility is finished.
Grub2:
"SecureBoot enabled" is supported by using a MOK (Machine Owner Key).
This means that verification fails the first time Puppy is booted on a particular machine,
but this launches a 'MokManager' which enables the enrolling of a MOK from the file '/ENROLL_THIS_KEY_IN_MOKMANAGER.cer' on the boot partition.
The MOK is stored in NVRAM, so once this is done on a machine, subsequent boots will proceed without interuption.
This is all achieved by borrowing 4 files from 'Super-UEFIinSecureBoot-Disk_minimal_v2.zip', downloaded from https://github.com/ValdikSS/Super-UEFIinSecureBoot-Disk site.
The 4 files are contained in 'grub2-sbm.tar.xz' (SecureBootMok).
Further information on the 'MokManager' screens is available on https://habr.com/en/post/446238/ ("Untrusted software first boot with shim.").
My compiled grub2 is still used, and still unsigned, it's now '/EFI/BOOT/grubx64_real.efi'.
The kernel and initrd.gz, remain unsigned.
Note: uefi booting with "SecureBoot" disabled, and non-uefi booting, work as before.
gyro
It's a "proof of concept" for a Puppy installer that supports uefi "SecureBoot" using grub2 and a MOK.
Download extra sfs 'frugalpup_15v.sfs' from http://www.mediafire.com/folder/rdyc5lgzpeij1/frugalpup (2.5 MiB).
FrugalPup GUI changes:
1. The "GParted" button has gone.
2. The main screen now disappears when a facility button is clicked.
It then re-appears when the facility is finished.
Grub2:
"SecureBoot enabled" is supported by using a MOK (Machine Owner Key).
This means that verification fails the first time Puppy is booted on a particular machine,
but this launches a 'MokManager' which enables the enrolling of a MOK from the file '/ENROLL_THIS_KEY_IN_MOKMANAGER.cer' on the boot partition.
The MOK is stored in NVRAM, so once this is done on a machine, subsequent boots will proceed without interuption.
This is all achieved by borrowing 4 files from 'Super-UEFIinSecureBoot-Disk_minimal_v2.zip', downloaded from https://github.com/ValdikSS/Super-UEFIinSecureBoot-Disk site.
The 4 files are contained in 'grub2-sbm.tar.xz' (SecureBootMok).
Further information on the 'MokManager' screens is available on https://habr.com/en/post/446238/ ("Untrusted software first boot with shim.").
My compiled grub2 is still used, and still unsigned, it's now '/EFI/BOOT/grubx64_real.efi'.
The kernel and initrd.gz, remain unsigned.
Note: uefi booting with "SecureBoot" disabled, and non-uefi booting, work as before.
gyro
FrugalPup 15v
I forgot to mention a new feature:
The "source type" has a new option, "this".
Which is a simple way of selecting the install directory of the current running Puppy as the source directory.
gyro
The "source type" has a new option, "this".
Which is a simple way of selecting the install directory of the current running Puppy as the source directory.
gyro