Has anyone ever tried to build a FedoraPup?
Has anyone ever tried to build a FedoraPup?
Hello all.
As the title says: "Has anyone ever tried to build a FedoraPup"
Through the woof-CE or otherwise.
I ask because, at times, to install some additional software on Puppy (e.g.
ntpdate), the only available libs are on a Fedora or similar depot, even if
your Pup is DPupStretch.
In theory, if you're on Debian Pup, the Debian depots should have the
compatible lib, but they don't.
Fedora has been around for ages, they have a good validation process, so
the material in their depots is stable, yes?
Would it be complicated to build a FedoraPup?
Thanks in advance for sharing any pointers or experience.
BFN.
As the title says: "Has anyone ever tried to build a FedoraPup"
Through the woof-CE or otherwise.
I ask because, at times, to install some additional software on Puppy (e.g.
ntpdate), the only available libs are on a Fedora or similar depot, even if
your Pup is DPupStretch.
In theory, if you're on Debian Pup, the Debian depots should have the
compatible lib, but they don't.
Fedora has been around for ages, they have a good validation process, so
the material in their depots is stable, yes?
Would it be complicated to build a FedoraPup?
Thanks in advance for sharing any pointers or experience.
BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
I have little experience using Fedora-Live-23:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... ef0#897229
If you like to explore Fedora-live using aufs kernel from Puppy-Rus-A here is temporary download link for archive with my test for frugal install after extracting the fedora folder at top of partition.
https://github.com/MintPup/DebianDog-Sq ... ase.tar.gz
md5sum: c5060b823365ee84dfebf21349f868ad fedora-pup-base.tar.gz - 184Mb
Included remastering script, Readme.txt with some information, boot codes and command line examples how to update and install packages. The main module has Xorg but not window manager installed. You have to start from command line by installing Jwm or other.
You should be able to download/install in save file/folder any fedora package you like and extract binaries or libs in Puppy or Debian. But for real Puppy like system it needs a lot more work.
Toni
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... ef0#897229
If you like to explore Fedora-live using aufs kernel from Puppy-Rus-A here is temporary download link for archive with my test for frugal install after extracting the fedora folder at top of partition.
https://github.com/MintPup/DebianDog-Sq ... ase.tar.gz
md5sum: c5060b823365ee84dfebf21349f868ad fedora-pup-base.tar.gz - 184Mb
Included remastering script, Readme.txt with some information, boot codes and command line examples how to update and install packages. The main module has Xorg but not window manager installed. You have to start from command line by installing Jwm or other.
You should be able to download/install in save file/folder any fedora package you like and extract binaries or libs in Puppy or Debian. But for real Puppy like system it needs a lot more work.
Toni
Hello saintless.
Very interesting. Thank you.
I will indeed explore / study your project. (Not today, though, I was not
expecting such an early answer, today I have other things to do.)
When you say Russian... I do not know any Russian, unfortunately. This
system understands ordinary Linux/GNU commands like ls, cp, etc., yes?
(Sorry if I sound naive.)
Again thank you for your lead.
BFN.
Very interesting. Thank you.
I will indeed explore / study your project. (Not today, though, I was not
expecting such an early answer, today I have other things to do.)
When you say Russian... I do not know any Russian, unfortunately. This
system understands ordinary Linux/GNU commands like ls, cp, etc., yes?
(Sorry if I sound naive.)
Again thank you for your lead.
BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
It should be possible to build a Fedora based Pup with Woof CE, if someone wants to invest the time.Besides the Debian,Ubuntu and Slackware based Pup builds there were also brief forays into Arch (Archpup)http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 084#692171 and Mageia (Drakepup)http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 224#540123 in the past so Fedora should be possible.
Only the boot process information messages are in Russian.musher0 wrote:When you say Russian... I do not know any Russian, unfortunately. This
system understands ordinary Linux/GNU commands like ls, cp, etc., yes?
You can use the commands ls, cp, etc. the same way as in Puppy or other linux.
Fedora23 has dnf command line package manager which downloads all dependencies (like apt-get in Debian).
It suits my own needs to test Fedora live some times. Maybe you are looking for real woof-ce build based on Fedora and this is not what you need. Test when and if you like. I doub't you will find better suggestion for Puppy like Fedora system and this is the reason for my answer here.
Thanks ally.
Toni
here is something for the background.
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musher0 wrote:Thanks, futwerk.
Now that we have a background for it, we'll have to build a Pup, won't we?
BFN.
Hi Musher,
How's the FedoraPup coming along??? Fedora I sometimes use as a desktop to mainly to see what they're (the Fedora team and gnome) are up to. It'll be interesting to see how you spin this up and it builds. Any date and/or time frame in mind for an ISO & devx release??
Hi belham2.
Moi? By myself? Alone? Trying for a Fedora branch of the woof-CE? You got
to be kidding! I'm not a bad bash-script writer, but this is way above my
pay grade!
On the other hand, if there are two or more of us, with exchange of tips,
tricks and ideas, now that would be a different situation which could
eventually lead to success, IMO.
First of all, where are the Fedora repos? (hehe)
BFN.
Moi? By myself? Alone? Trying for a Fedora branch of the woof-CE? You got
to be kidding! I'm not a bad bash-script writer, but this is way above my
pay grade!
On the other hand, if there are two or more of us, with exchange of tips,
tricks and ideas, now that would be a different situation which could
eventually lead to success, IMO.
First of all, where are the Fedora repos? (hehe)
BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
Food for thought:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 593#816783
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 593#816783
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
Hello again belham2.
To give you a practrical answer, I did try saintless' template (or matrix or
seed or whatever it's called), but I can't get a connection to the fedora repos.
And saintless said that he would not get involved further. So I'm stumped.
BFN.
To give you a practrical answer, I did try saintless' template (or matrix or
seed or whatever it's called), but I can't get a connection to the fedora repos.
And saintless said that he would not get involved further. So I'm stumped.
BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
I wondered what advantage a Fedora-Pup might provide. Labbe5's post, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 376#967376 --better security-- seems to provide an answer.
mikesLr
mikesLr
musher0 wrote:Thanks for the valuable info, mikeslr.
A Fedora Pup would be worth trying, if only for that reason.
Musher my friend,
When it comes to the pack in front of the sled....I am the closest mutt to the driver because I don't know what I am doing, lol. You, you are out near the (if not thee) "lead" dog driving us. If Toni (or someone with similar skill) is not driving us, and you are not out front leading us mutts, we are gonna starve, fail & die a miserable death on the tundra
A big part of the Fedora security is the SELinux component, but don't think you'd want that in a Puppy. It can be a pain to work with, completely opposite of the ease of use of Puppy and root for everything.(the security concerns of which have been discussed many times before)mikeslr wrote:I wondered what advantage a Fedora-Pup might provide. Labbe5's post, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 376#967376 --better security-- seems to provide an answer.
The main benefit of a FedPup would be if you are going to do some work with Fedora/RPM packages. That would be a handy spin, especially since there really isn't a lightweight portable Redhat/Fedora spin like there is for all the other major distros.
There is another reason I know of why a Fedora Pup (or better a Dog because full multi-user would be required) would be very useful:mikeslr wrote:I wondered what advantage a Fedora-Pup might provide. Labbe5's post, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 376#967376 --better security-- seems to provide an answer.
mikesLr
In education. Most professional Linux courses (for training/certification) use the following RHEL materials:
https://www.redhat.com/en/services/trai ... rise-linux
So the huge number of students undertaking these Red Hat certification program courses globally need easy access to a Red Hat Linux system (though CentOS is pretty good for the purpose too). Though they get such access at their polytechic/university environment, it is good to have access at home (though often a home/training-institution remote login arrangement has been setup, which works quite well in these days of fast broadband connection).
Though other Linux's are fine for most of the work, many of the tools used (for security and otherwise) are RedHat specific. I used to be a trainer on such courses but haven't myself been near a RedHat system since I moved from that position four or five years ago.
wiak
I don't think that would be a good use of a Fedora Pup. For professional training, you'd want the real thing.(or as close to it like CentOS) You'd want all the files and binaries and processes like systemd in the right place and functioning the exact same way.wiak wrote:There is another reason I know of why a Fedora Pup (or better a Dog because full multi-user would be required) would be very useful:
In education. Most professional Linux courses (for training/certification) use the following RHEL materials:
A Fedora Pup would not be Fedora, it would be Puppy, just with Fedora binary package compatible. Just like UPup is not Ubuntu, just Ubuntu binary compatible. Maybe you could make a CentPup that might be closer, but then why not just use full CentOS? Its free.
Thanks for the kind words.belham2 wrote:Musher my friend,musher0 wrote:Thanks for the valuable info, mikeslr.
A Fedora Pup would be worth trying, if only for that reason.
When it comes to the pack in front of the sled....I am the closest mutt to the driver because I don't know what I am doing, lol. You, you are out near the (if not thee) "lead" dog driving us. If Toni (or someone with similar skill) is not driving us, and you are not out front leading us mutts, we are gonna starve, fail & die a miserable death on the tundra
There you go, belham2, raw reindeer steak!
Don't worry, you won't starve!!!
But you still have some of those hunting wolf instincts, have you?!
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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
Hello all.
On a more serious note:
like saintless mentioned on the mavrothal thread I referenced above (NOT
quoting verbatim, but I think this is the meaning of his intervention):
"What's the point of producing a carbon copy Puppy from a different repo,
if you won't maintain it?"
Pelo -- whether we generally like his comments or not, he sometimes
comes up with interesting insights -- has also been yapping at my calves
and at other people's about this for a while: maintenance and service of
our Puppies; "traveler" focus, to use Pelo's choice of words.
Certainly security is a concern; and just look at our founder go with his
"Easy Linux"!!! BarryK is onto something good there, I'm sure.
But as jd7654 mentioned above, it may not be Puppy's role to get deep
into SELinux, etc.
Even as Puppy is, if a Puppyist does regular back-ups and uses minimal
vigilance and good computing practices, "Kiddo" better get up very early
in the morning to try to attack and compromise any Puppy's security.
I can testify, like Mike Walsh and some other forum members, that with
proper back-ups and a minimum of Internet vigilance, if something
happens to your Puppy due to hardware failure or to Internet malware, you
can get your Puppy back on line, pretty much in the state it was before the
incident, in less than half an hour. That's not bad at all, considering that
Puppy is not expressly designed with security in mind.
Coming back to Saintless' statement, does Puppy really need to prove that
it can also get geany, ROX-Filer or mplayer from a Fedora repo? We have
already proven many times over that we can fetch them successfully from
Slackware, Ubuntu, and Debian repos, not to mention T2 repos.
I know, I'm taking a step back from my initial post. While one would feel
justified pride in being able to add a Fedora-Pup or a CentOS-Pup to our
woof-CE collection of builds, it would still be Puppy, with jwm as WM, geany
as text editor, leafpad as text reader, etc., etc.
Even building a Puppy entirely from source, a la Linux From Scratch, for
example, would that bring something more interesting to the user?
Has any one heard of "halibut"? This is not really off subject. I do like
fish occasionally for dinner, but I'm talking about this Linux fish:
https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/halibut
What I'm getting at is I think we need to "renew the offer". Those are my
thoughts at present. I think we need to have a good discussion about
"renewing the offer."
How about we offer fish and chips once and a while instead of the usual
Puppy food?!
(The thought just occurred to me that the expression "renew the offer" may
be a "Frenchism"? If so, I apologize, and hope you still get my meaning!)
I would like in conclusion to underline wiak's excellent work on his
automaton script.
I think his work nicely closes the cycle. At the beginning, the woof-CE
process was extremely difficult to go through -- now, thanks to wiak and his
script, it is easy for even a newbie to build the Puppy of his/her choice.
TWYL.
On a more serious note:
like saintless mentioned on the mavrothal thread I referenced above (NOT
quoting verbatim, but I think this is the meaning of his intervention):
"What's the point of producing a carbon copy Puppy from a different repo,
if you won't maintain it?"
Pelo -- whether we generally like his comments or not, he sometimes
comes up with interesting insights -- has also been yapping at my calves
and at other people's about this for a while: maintenance and service of
our Puppies; "traveler" focus, to use Pelo's choice of words.
Certainly security is a concern; and just look at our founder go with his
"Easy Linux"!!! BarryK is onto something good there, I'm sure.
But as jd7654 mentioned above, it may not be Puppy's role to get deep
into SELinux, etc.
Even as Puppy is, if a Puppyist does regular back-ups and uses minimal
vigilance and good computing practices, "Kiddo" better get up very early
in the morning to try to attack and compromise any Puppy's security.
I can testify, like Mike Walsh and some other forum members, that with
proper back-ups and a minimum of Internet vigilance, if something
happens to your Puppy due to hardware failure or to Internet malware, you
can get your Puppy back on line, pretty much in the state it was before the
incident, in less than half an hour. That's not bad at all, considering that
Puppy is not expressly designed with security in mind.
Coming back to Saintless' statement, does Puppy really need to prove that
it can also get geany, ROX-Filer or mplayer from a Fedora repo? We have
already proven many times over that we can fetch them successfully from
Slackware, Ubuntu, and Debian repos, not to mention T2 repos.
I know, I'm taking a step back from my initial post. While one would feel
justified pride in being able to add a Fedora-Pup or a CentOS-Pup to our
woof-CE collection of builds, it would still be Puppy, with jwm as WM, geany
as text editor, leafpad as text reader, etc., etc.
Even building a Puppy entirely from source, a la Linux From Scratch, for
example, would that bring something more interesting to the user?
Has any one heard of "halibut"? This is not really off subject. I do like
fish occasionally for dinner, but I'm talking about this Linux fish:
https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/halibut
What I'm getting at is I think we need to "renew the offer". Those are my
thoughts at present. I think we need to have a good discussion about
"renewing the offer."
How about we offer fish and chips once and a while instead of the usual
Puppy food?!
(The thought just occurred to me that the expression "renew the offer" may
be a "Frenchism"? If so, I apologize, and hope you still get my meaning!)
I would like in conclusion to underline wiak's excellent work on his
automaton script.
I think his work nicely closes the cycle. At the beginning, the woof-CE
process was extremely difficult to go through -- now, thanks to wiak and his
script, it is easy for even a newbie to build the Puppy of his/her choice.
TWYL.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)