Out, out damn spot.

Puppy related raves and general interest that doesn't fit anywhere else
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Sage
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Out, out damn spot.

#1 Post by Sage »

Regular correspondents will know how much I've constantly railed against the bloat and ugliness of Seamucky, beloved of Barry. They will also recognise just how popular have been derivatives of the Pup which adopted either Firefox or Opera as default browser. As might be expected, however, there have always been the vociferous minority wishing to ingratiate themselves and curry favour with the Dear Leader for reasons that completely elude me.
Now there is another survey that suggests just how far BK has been out of line:
see RHS of http://linuxlandit.blogspot.com/2008/12 ... rence.html

I've read the arguments, size, speed, free vs non-free, etc. I could go along with Firefox, the majority preference by a very large majority. However, it falls down on bloat, speed and questionable license status. My personal preference is for (properly customised!) Opera, despite it's semi-proprietary nature and marginal size benefit - it outpaces all other major contenders and is the most flexible browser available for any platform. Speaking of which, versions are available for an even wider range of platforms, too, including embedded systems.

Sometimes an outsider's view contributes because it sees the bigger picture, a wider perspective. Frankly, no user - and, surely, this has to be all about the user - cares about the free vs. non-free debate so long as the proprietary element is not demanding their hard cash. Tick the "Agree" box and continue regardless. Most of their carefully constructed legalees proves worthless in a Court of Law, anyway. [Even the Hollyweirdos from the music and video industries have been given bloody noses and depleted chequebooks when trying to sue individuals.]. Goodness knows, there are several charlatans trying to elicit subscriptions for their modest distro compilations, 99% of which are based on OBE s. Misguided all of them.

Time to erase the one component that brings down this popular compact distro that has been dragging it into bloatland for so long?

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01micko
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#2 Post by 01micko »

With due respect,
I don't think Barry cares too much about the "free, non-free issue", or else he wouldn't include Flash, DVD codecs, and the like.
I think the real issue is that Barry hasn't got the time to worry about such minor details and that is why he has stepped aside. To let us, as users, decide what we want in Puppy.
His focus is on 'woof', and I'm sure if WhoDo and co do a good job on 4.2 then Barry will take note.
There is bloat everywhere. Look at the wallpapers. Look at zigbert's 'deepthought' wallpapers. Saving of near 300kB. There is work going on everywhere to trim the bloat.

Oh, just read that link! I really don't think Barry is trying to 'remaster' Xubuntu! Did you try woof yet?

EDIT> and if you were referring to the browser vote on RHS then it's Firefox well and truly over Opera. (Too bad Firepup isn't included :lol: )
Last edited by 01micko on Mon 05 Jan 2009, 10:20, edited 1 time in total.
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WhoDo
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#3 Post by WhoDo »

Perhaps a few facts will provide a more balanced view...

Apart from those reactionaries who like to play with SCSI drives, and quirky browsers with limited support for the latest plugins, it seems to me that the rest of the world is even happier with Puppy than it has ever been, despite Seamonkey's alleged "bloat". Go figure. :roll:

BTW, why would you point to a survey by a distro that requires 1.5Gb of hard disk space to load as demonstrating a better direction on browsers than Puppy?

I have some simple advice for Opera devotees - PETget > Install > Opera

Hope that helps
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GeoffS
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#4 Post by GeoffS »

I LIKE SeaMonkey.
Firefox, I don't see much difference from SeaMonkey. They both 'browse the web' and anyway, I'm beginning to worry about how popular it is becoming. I can't be seen to use something that is popular or maybe that should be Sage's line :lol:
Opera - Irritating, just seems to be different for the sake of being different.
Cheers
Geoff

bugman

#5 Post by bugman »

all i can say is that one of the VERY first things i did after upgrading to 4.12 was to download firefox

as far as bloat goes, i cannot begin to enumerate all the programs in here that i have no use for, but i'm sure someone must be using them somewhere, somehow . . .

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headfound
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#6 Post by headfound »

lol. I'm running Boxpup which came with opera and i hate it! It takes ages to load pages and the formatting is frequently off. I installed seamonkey instead :) .I used to be a firefox user, but apart from the extra widgets/plugins (which slow the browser down!) there is no reason to use it over seamonkey imho.
Download a better Computer :)
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Artie
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#7 Post by Artie »

SeaMonkey comes first, then Opera. On my system, Firefox crashes at least five times a day if I even bother to use it.

Artie

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darrelljon
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#8 Post by darrelljon »


bugman

#9 Post by bugman »

in the poll i voted for dillo [where IS it?]

i guess i can't see the performance difference between firefox and seamonkey, it is more a 'look and feel' issue

if i want fast i use dillo-patched, or at least i used to

must try skipstone and netsurf and the other baby browsers as dillo has either disappeared or i haven't bothered to really look yet

:oops:

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ttuuxxx
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#10 Post by ttuuxxx »

I run live with a fresh Puppy Cd so I can compile large applications without worrying that I missed a lib etc.Less problems for the end users and myself. So my hard drives all 1.6 terabyes is strictly for files. actually have around 500 gigs of files etc. Anyways the first thing I do is, Install FirePup after a reboot, Then install my devx.pet and sometimes icewm and thats it.
But The main thing is FirePup and needs to be on that list of browsers also, please :)
ttuuxxx
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DaveS
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#11 Post by DaveS »

Sorry............. cant take this thread seriously. The primary post reads like an endorsement for decaff
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ttuuxxx
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#12 Post by ttuuxxx »

Ya I liked opera on windows like 10yrs ago, but then I switched to Firefox, Once in a blue moon I try the latest Opera, but it feels too commercial these days for my liking, and the worst part its not open-source.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
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cthisbear
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#13 Post by cthisbear »

Personally I like Seamonkey.

In Barrys Woof release it just flies....
straight from the Live CD.

I always stop updates, use Scroogle as my home page,
Cookies are set at zero for current session, Java is on.

Firefox is just crap these days loading.
When it first came out it was extremely fast.
And I run it the same as above, as well as clearing
all data when I finish.

I have tried Opera in Puppies and Windows but
it's not my favourite.....I never worry about free vs non-free.

I want what works for me, I'm not into favouritism.

But it doesn't matter because it's always about choice.
Our Puplet releases prove that.
Plenty of Bare Bone Pups have been recompiled.

Everybody has opinions.
Mine are no more valid or the reverse than others.
It's a big ocean out there with many a vessel sailing along.
Some sink, some get damaged.
Puppy arrives at most ports for me.

Chris.

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WhoDo
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#14 Post by WhoDo »

DaveS wrote:Sorry............. cant take this thread seriously. The primary post reads like an endorsement for decaff
:lol: :lol: :lol: Do you know Sage personally? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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WhoDo
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#15 Post by WhoDo »

bugman wrote:i guess i can't see the performance difference between firefox and seamonkey, it is more a 'look and feel' issue
Yep. And these days it's really easy to make Seamonkey 'look and feel' like Firefox, too! Seafox theme and Monkey Menus add-on takes you 90% of the way without causing crashes to match. 8)

I have been tempted to try ttuuxxx's Firepup version; just never had the time. Seamonkey does it for me anyway, so it would just be curiosity overcoming my inertia. :P
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01micko
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#16 Post by 01micko »

WhoDo wrote:
I have been tempted to try ttuuxxx's Firepup version; just never had the time. Seamonkey does it for me anyway, so it would just be curiosity overcoming my inertia. :P
The first thing I do on clean install is install firepup. Fast as. I like seamonkey but if you try firepup you will see the difference.

(and no I don't work for ttuuxxx!! :lol: )
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raffy
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problems

#17 Post by raffy »

It's the Flash plugin that pulls performance out of Firefox.

And it's the Insert key bug that haunts Seamonkey (just experienced that yesterday, :roll: - stupid me).

For people who want some fun in a smaller Puppy, try this 4.1.2 sfs (meant for the eee) with Firefox in it (best used with pfix=ram in frugal install):
http://minipc.org/sfs/

eee drivers are not added yet - add it yourself. :) See
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34159
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].

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