Thanks, everyone here at the Puppy Linux community, for being much friendlier than most of the Linux community that I've experienced.
Ever since Grafpup moved it's board to LinuxQuestions.org, I don't feel like I have the same experience that I do here. It's nothing against Nathan, as Natahn continues to be helpful. But I post a problem with running WINE in Grafpup and they complain about me posting this really long thing (and I missed what the first lines said, there was a lot for me to take in, and I wasn't sure what info I needed and what I didn't). I've never heard a complaint about long postings here when I just need help, I just get the help that I need. They act like I posted a video or something, saying I'm wasting their bandwidth.
Since Nathan comes to this board anyway, and many people post about Grafpup here still, I think I'll get my help here when i need it instead of LinuxQuestions.org .
OK, I guess this thread is a waste of bandwidth, but I just want to express my praise to the Puppy community here on this board.
The community here is awesome
As a tech support professional...
...I would rather be the one to decide what's important to know than the person seeking help. They usually have no idea where to start looking, and having them edit their question to save "bandwidth" only makes it harder for me to find the real source of the problem.Gekko wrote:Many tech support and devs endorse the use of extremely long descriptions of the problem, so easier to diagnose the problem and find a solution without asking many questions.
Oftentimes it is one word, or small phrase, that holds the clue to solving a complex problem. The only problem I'd ever have with long posts/questions is if the writer doesn't follow the normal conventions of good grammar - formatting text into paragraphs with only one idea/question per paragraph. I need the "breathing space" of a paragraph break to digest each chunk and sift it for useful clues.
I don't know why some people are so snobbish about their pseudo-Gnostic grasp of Linux, but I too am glad that hasn't raised its ugly head on this forum. Keep posting here, jcagle. After all, where else could someone like Lobster produce posts about time machines and zen principles without being stomped all over in the process?
[i]Actions speak louder than words ... and they usually work when words don't![/i]
SIP:whodo@proxy01.sipphone.com; whodo@realsip.com
SIP:whodo@proxy01.sipphone.com; whodo@realsip.com
Re: As a tech support professional...
A forum on localhostWhoDo wrote:After all, where else could someone like Lobster produce posts about time machines and zen principles without being stomped all over in the process?
here here! I second the motion! been surf'n since telnet and I'm here to say you won't find a more useful place! for your questions concerning
linux
P.S. whom ever thought to name the post button Submit
good call!
linux
P.S. whom ever thought to name the post button Submit
good call!
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[url=http://tinyurl.com/39fl3x]vlc-0.8.6c-i586.pet[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/2q7cbp]vlc-0.8.6c-i586.pet[/url]
Yeah, I hate "Submit" too. It ought to be "Send."
A verbose post is to be desired over having to play 20 questions to draw out the one little clue that solves the problem. Sometimes getting more info seems like pulling teeth. There's a thread in the Beginners section now that illustrates what I mean. It goes in the wrong direction for quite a few posts before the poster mentions a clue that indicates his hard disk drive might be jumpered wrong to boot from. Nothing against him, he doesn't seem to know that much about computers, but perhaps if he had included everything but the Out house sink in his first post we'd have solved his problem right off. Who knows. Unfortunately the line between not enough information and too much can only be drawn in retrospect. As my mom once pointed out, the reason you always find something in the last place you look for it is because then you stop looking. So it just doesn't make sense to jump on someone for a long post when he's asking for help. I hope I've made myself clear.
A verbose post is to be desired over having to play 20 questions to draw out the one little clue that solves the problem. Sometimes getting more info seems like pulling teeth. There's a thread in the Beginners section now that illustrates what I mean. It goes in the wrong direction for quite a few posts before the poster mentions a clue that indicates his hard disk drive might be jumpered wrong to boot from. Nothing against him, he doesn't seem to know that much about computers, but perhaps if he had included everything but the Out house sink in his first post we'd have solved his problem right off. Who knows. Unfortunately the line between not enough information and too much can only be drawn in retrospect. As my mom once pointed out, the reason you always find something in the last place you look for it is because then you stop looking. So it just doesn't make sense to jump on someone for a long post when he's asking for help. I hope I've made myself clear.
-
Billwho?
- Posts: 559
- Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 09:28
- Location: still "In The Dog House" East Coast Oz
Trialing 4.20
Attachments??
From what I have seen they don't seem to allow attachments either, so you can't even gzip a text file and attach it to a post, which should save a bit of bandwidth for them.
Linux = Learning through doing :shock: :? :D
The learning curve may be steep but there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
You just have to pass the occasional oncoming train to get there.
The learning curve may be steep but there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
You just have to pass the occasional oncoming train to get there.
i thought so too. image is increasingly important here, and when you first show up, people are really friendly. some of them may continue to be. i think you can count on pizzasgood 99.999% of the time if you need to talk to a decent actual human being that also happens to be rather brilliant. if he was free software, we could redistribute him and no one would need windows for anything ever again.
with free software, there are two groups of people that benefit the most significantly, people that will screw everyone over to get the "top," and people that will follow them- mostly the latter. this isn't free software's fault, free software is a good idea and it takes people to screw it up.
puppy for instance, changes much faster than anyone has ever managed to document it. there is a new manual put together by someone every few weeks, and a new version to go with it, all with it's own bizarre little oddities responsible for why n suddenly won't work, and n is never the same thing, but it's exactly what you need working to use puppy for everyday stuff.
the upshot of this is that you need the forum, so fortunately this one isn't quite as rabid as the others, which suck too.
however, as you grow to learn more about puppy, you'll find out what's wrong with it, and you'll need people at that point, or you'll need to be a guru in the making. not everyone can be a guru in the making, so they can either suck up to people regardless of the bad days, or they can go somewhere else. those are the real options here, and as long as people go out of their way to pretend it's that way, it will fool newbies into sticking around and learning something, before eventually leaving.
i'm sure it could be worse, it usually is. for instance, i know i'll never get dosemu working in grafpup, because no one including nathan who was kind enough to compile it knows why it doesn't work-
but someone (you i think, or one of the other main people over there) was so purely and unmistakably condescending i gave up on the forum that day. this forum is different. it pretends to give a crap about people first, and people can't help but stick around because puppy is just so amazing at the outset.
i wish i felt the way about this community- or about puppy- the way i did feel when i was first amazed. ultimately though, this forum is better for fanboys, the occasional guru with supreme patience (gurus often lack that) and white men.
if you're not:
1. white,
2. a guru
3. a fanboy
4. a man
there's really not a lot of point in sticking around here. so you're a fanboy, it's cool. you'll be happy here. i can't even recommend puppy to anyone that isn't one or more of the above, because they will not be able to get puppy to do what they want without this community to makeup for the fact that puppy is impossible to document by design-
and this community will never- ever strive to be a place where anyone but the above will possibly want to stay, once you see the men behind the curtain. in that sense, it's like a lot of distros, sure. and at least it's better than the grafpup forum, so it's good that grafpup doesn't need a forum as badly as puppy does.
i hear that nathan has even taken it upon himself to provide up to date documentation. good, that way i won't need to bother with you or grafpup.org, and i won't have to ask here. pity about your issue with wine in grafpup, that will probably affect me, too. i'd love to try to help anyway i could, but the urge has been diminished beyond awareness. i almost wish i was a fanboy like i was in the beginning, but it's just not worth the loss of integrity. i'd have to lie a lot.
no, this is not an awesome community. an awesome community would be people, but this community is just persons, at best. and a very, very small number of persons, too. so thanks to those, i don't know how they manage to stand being here, but they have my respect- all five of them.
there's another version of this rant in a nearby topic where i say what i *really* think
i couldn't tell you which one does a better job of expressing it- maybe this one, maybe the other. it probably depends on how full of crap people are on a particular day. when image is everything, being full of crap is a virtue- a virtue you can have as a fanboy, but not as me. sorry.
they say some people get off on being unhappy. i bet a lot of people think i'm such a person. i'd rather get off on being happy, honestly, but not to the point where i make excuses for the nastiest bs i've encounterered here. when i answer elitism and bigotry with anger, you probably think me a hypocrite. yeah, that's the problem with fanboys- no spine, no real decency, no concern about other people- just image.
image can help, it can even change the world, but unless people care about meaning, context, and errors, and even other human beings, image can't ever change the world for the better. it can only assist people in lying about their alleged successes. it certainly won't get you to #1 on distrowatch, but it will keep you from figuring out why. good luck. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 1934#71934
with free software, there are two groups of people that benefit the most significantly, people that will screw everyone over to get the "top," and people that will follow them- mostly the latter. this isn't free software's fault, free software is a good idea and it takes people to screw it up.
puppy for instance, changes much faster than anyone has ever managed to document it. there is a new manual put together by someone every few weeks, and a new version to go with it, all with it's own bizarre little oddities responsible for why n suddenly won't work, and n is never the same thing, but it's exactly what you need working to use puppy for everyday stuff.
the upshot of this is that you need the forum, so fortunately this one isn't quite as rabid as the others, which suck too.
however, as you grow to learn more about puppy, you'll find out what's wrong with it, and you'll need people at that point, or you'll need to be a guru in the making. not everyone can be a guru in the making, so they can either suck up to people regardless of the bad days, or they can go somewhere else. those are the real options here, and as long as people go out of their way to pretend it's that way, it will fool newbies into sticking around and learning something, before eventually leaving.
i'm sure it could be worse, it usually is. for instance, i know i'll never get dosemu working in grafpup, because no one including nathan who was kind enough to compile it knows why it doesn't work-
but someone (you i think, or one of the other main people over there) was so purely and unmistakably condescending i gave up on the forum that day. this forum is different. it pretends to give a crap about people first, and people can't help but stick around because puppy is just so amazing at the outset.
i wish i felt the way about this community- or about puppy- the way i did feel when i was first amazed. ultimately though, this forum is better for fanboys, the occasional guru with supreme patience (gurus often lack that) and white men.
if you're not:
1. white,
2. a guru
3. a fanboy
4. a man
there's really not a lot of point in sticking around here. so you're a fanboy, it's cool. you'll be happy here. i can't even recommend puppy to anyone that isn't one or more of the above, because they will not be able to get puppy to do what they want without this community to makeup for the fact that puppy is impossible to document by design-
and this community will never- ever strive to be a place where anyone but the above will possibly want to stay, once you see the men behind the curtain. in that sense, it's like a lot of distros, sure. and at least it's better than the grafpup forum, so it's good that grafpup doesn't need a forum as badly as puppy does.
i hear that nathan has even taken it upon himself to provide up to date documentation. good, that way i won't need to bother with you or grafpup.org, and i won't have to ask here. pity about your issue with wine in grafpup, that will probably affect me, too. i'd love to try to help anyway i could, but the urge has been diminished beyond awareness. i almost wish i was a fanboy like i was in the beginning, but it's just not worth the loss of integrity. i'd have to lie a lot.
no, this is not an awesome community. an awesome community would be people, but this community is just persons, at best. and a very, very small number of persons, too. so thanks to those, i don't know how they manage to stand being here, but they have my respect- all five of them.
there's another version of this rant in a nearby topic where i say what i *really* think
i couldn't tell you which one does a better job of expressing it- maybe this one, maybe the other. it probably depends on how full of crap people are on a particular day. when image is everything, being full of crap is a virtue- a virtue you can have as a fanboy, but not as me. sorry. they say some people get off on being unhappy. i bet a lot of people think i'm such a person. i'd rather get off on being happy, honestly, but not to the point where i make excuses for the nastiest bs i've encounterered here. when i answer elitism and bigotry with anger, you probably think me a hypocrite. yeah, that's the problem with fanboys- no spine, no real decency, no concern about other people- just image.
image can help, it can even change the world, but unless people care about meaning, context, and errors, and even other human beings, image can't ever change the world for the better. it can only assist people in lying about their alleged successes. it certainly won't get you to #1 on distrowatch, but it will keep you from figuring out why. good luck. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 1934#71934
Well, one of the people from LinuxQuestions.org got in touch with me. Apparenltly, they're struggling with a lot of people on the board who are pretty hardcore, and think that new distros or distros that they have never heard of are probably worthless. Apparently I ran into that. They are especially having problems witht hese people getting onto the new forums, such as the Grafpup one.
I think, for now, I'll offer help on Grafpup when people ask for it on linuxquestions.org and I can help them, but I'll ask for help here when I need it.
I think, for now, I'll offer help on Grafpup when people ask for it on linuxquestions.org and I can help them, but I'll ask for help here when I need it.
i'm not sure what's vexing amish's spleen? i think
the most important thing about puppy, and the forum,
is the fact that it's fun to play with & anyone can
contribute. you don't have to be a certified linux
"propeller head" to have input. and bk & others
have created some nifty tools to allow anyone to
create/modify their own version.
the forum is full of posts from people, like me, that
have tried many of the bigger, bloated linuxes, & ended
up here. i was dual booting with dsl for awhile, but found
that i was always reverting to puppy when i needed to
do anything as it just seems to be more user friendly.
about 2 years ago i attended my one, and only, linux
users group meeting. i never asked any questions, just
listened and observed. i couldn't get over the sneering
arrogance of a lot of the participants as they tried to "top"
each other with their knowledge. i've never encountered
anything like that here.
(i sincerely hope i haven't offended any "prop heads"
as we probably need a lot more of them in the forum!)
the most important thing about puppy, and the forum,
is the fact that it's fun to play with & anyone can
contribute. you don't have to be a certified linux
"propeller head" to have input. and bk & others
have created some nifty tools to allow anyone to
create/modify their own version.
the forum is full of posts from people, like me, that
have tried many of the bigger, bloated linuxes, & ended
up here. i was dual booting with dsl for awhile, but found
that i was always reverting to puppy when i needed to
do anything as it just seems to be more user friendly.
about 2 years ago i attended my one, and only, linux
users group meeting. i never asked any questions, just
listened and observed. i couldn't get over the sneering
arrogance of a lot of the participants as they tried to "top"
each other with their knowledge. i've never encountered
anything like that here.
(i sincerely hope i haven't offended any "prop heads"
as we probably need a lot more of them in the forum!)
-
Linux_chick
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sat 27 Jan 2007, 00:01
- Location: Lincolnshire, England
misc
Well, to be honest.....i got bored after adding a post under pc's more accessible to women (or similar title..such long time ago )and to say this is for every one and the community encompasses every one and in my case.....a drop in centre of a large town, i had no feedback at all. I had a lot to offer and know what people are looking for and to get a few essentials right, i still believe puppy would wipe the floor with anything else....Its ACE. I am teaching myself programming and finding a few people from England to do our own software that will make people of the community...(all ages) who think they are 'dummies' with pc's, acheive their potential and improve the towns quality of life. Sick of Microsoft and maybe you are all just very busy..... 
I still hope this forum is open to suggestions and am sure a very caring community in itself.
Vikki
I still hope this forum is open to suggestions and am sure a very caring community in itself.
Vikki
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Lobster
- Official Crustacean
- Posts: 15522
- Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 06:06
- Location: Paradox Realm
- Contact:
Vikki
What programming language are you learning?
I wish I had more time for Python
http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/Python
and for developing ASQ
http://tmxxine.com/Wikka/wikka.php?wakka=AsqNOW
Nobody is yet contemplating a language so high level that it uses AI and constantly asks for feedback to understand what you are trying to do. Such a usage turns programming into something accessible to an audience wider than most programmers would like. It will arrive eventually because the need is arising.
Anyway good luck with your projects
What programming language are you learning?
I wish I had more time for Python
http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/Python
and for developing ASQ
http://tmxxine.com/Wikka/wikka.php?wakka=AsqNOW
Nobody is yet contemplating a language so high level that it uses AI and constantly asks for feedback to understand what you are trying to do. Such a usage turns programming into something accessible to an audience wider than most programmers would like. It will arrive eventually because the need is arising.
Anyway good luck with your projects
I live with the amish here. There about Humility & Community I will take
a lesson from them and just say this
a lesson from them and just say this
Code: Select all
there's no snobery here
[url=http://hostfile.org/icepak.pet]176 Icewm Themes :!:[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/39fl3x]vlc-0.8.6c-i586.pet[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/2q7cbp]vlc-0.8.6c-i586.pet[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/39fl3x]vlc-0.8.6c-i586.pet[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/2q7cbp]vlc-0.8.6c-i586.pet[/url]
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Linux_chick
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sat 27 Jan 2007, 00:01
- Location: Lincolnshire, England
Hi Lobster,Lobster wrote:Vikki
What programming language are you learning?
I wish I had more time for Python
http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/Python
and for developing ASQ
http://tmxxine.com/Wikka/wikka.php?wakka=AsqNOW
Nobody is yet contemplating a language so high level that it uses AI and constantly asks for feedback to understand what you are trying to do. Such a usage turns programming into something accessible to an audience wider than most programmers would like. It will arrive eventually because the need is arising.
Anyway good luck with your projects
I am learning a few, but starting off with HTML....loads of info on them all....Java, dreamweaver and flash videos, Ruby...arghhh. Its just switching off and concentrating with one and other bits help on top. Thanks for the info, by the way. It is helpful and i just need TIME with no interruptions to get to GRIPS....lol. You all seem to manage with work and committments too, Im 'streamlining' myself....bands can have a few days with out me.
xxx
Was this statement directed toward me?but someone (you i think, or one of the other main people over there) was so purely and unmistakably condescending i gave up on the forum that day. this forum is different. it pretends to give a crap about people first, and people can't help but stick around because puppy is just so amazing at the outset.
I try not to be condescending when helping someone. So if the person the statement was directed at was me, could you direct me to the thread?
Puppy Fun
I know I'm showing my rocking chair but honestly
I've not had as much fun with a OS since FreeDOS
as far as the forum goes I live in a town the sign
as you come into town Says Welcome to
Hillsbourgh home of 600 happy ppl and a few
sore heads. made the the 1954 cover of
LIFE so they never changed it
I've not had as much fun with a OS since FreeDOS
as far as the forum goes I live in a town the sign
as you come into town Says Welcome to
Hillsbourgh home of 600 happy ppl and a few
sore heads.
made the the 1954 cover ofLIFE so they never changed it
[url=http://hostfile.org/icepak.pet]176 Icewm Themes :!:[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/39fl3x]vlc-0.8.6c-i586.pet[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/2q7cbp]vlc-0.8.6c-i586.pet[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/39fl3x]vlc-0.8.6c-i586.pet[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/2q7cbp]vlc-0.8.6c-i586.pet[/url]
Re: Puppy Fun
willhunt wrote:I live in a town the sign as you come into town Says Welcome to Hillsbourgh home of 600 happy ppl and a few sore heads.
I love it, and it's so true too. I regularly visit a town here that has a welcome sign that says "Welcome to Branxton. We have 2 cemetaries and no hospital. Please drive carefully!" It seems a sense of humor is universal, and very necessary when you join an online community. It takes all types, really.Cheers
[i]Actions speak louder than words ... and they usually work when words don't![/i]
SIP:whodo@proxy01.sipphone.com; whodo@realsip.com
SIP:whodo@proxy01.sipphone.com; whodo@realsip.com
-
Lobster
- Official Crustacean
- Posts: 15522
- Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 06:06
- Location: Paradox Realm
- Contact:
Linux_chick wrote: Ruby...arghhh.
Ruby is both modern and has some of the best tutorials available.
Interestingly HTML plus javascript (which is all Ajax is) is probably powerful enough to do most of what you require..
It can be hard and meticulous but then eventually you learn to play. Every once in a while I play at programming, makes me appreciate the experts.
Good luck.
Last edited by Lobster on Thu 21 Jun 2007, 18:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Nathan F
- Posts: 1764
- Joined: Wed 08 Jun 2005, 14:45
- Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)
- Contact:
No Joey, it wasn't and unfortunately I remember the incident all too well. But I have no desire to rahash any of it right now so let's please not do so.Was this statement directed toward me?
I try not to be condescending when helping someone. So if the person the statement was directed at was me, could you direct me to the thread?
I agree that this community is awesome, with perhaps one or two minor abberations. I do my best to ignore them unless they turn out to be really persistent or attack others unfairly, in which case I have a hard time turning a blind eye.
I grew up in Holmes County in Ohio and so spent most of my formative years around one of the largest communities of Amish in the world. Some people are really stretching things by using the name...I live with the amish here.
Nathan
Bring on the locusts ...
-
jonyo
My ltd linux experience has been that the community is indeed awesome & unique. Haven't had nearly the support in 2 other high up linux forums.
Seems that pup is at a crossroads though with some folks that have been around for awhile..not happy where pups at, or has become. Though I don't necessarily agree with how, or the way some points are made, that's here & there.
The points that puppy used to work, out of the box is of great concern to me & if not corrected with current releases, will certainly turn off new folks, though they may be thrilled when startin out.
So awesome community for me yes but question is, why does there not seem to be more concern about what has become of pup, from the powers that be?
What may be easy for higher ups to sort out, is just a royal PITA for us regular joe (ettes ) users to figure out.
I don't think anyone has answered satisfactorily why there are so many releases of pup, which I'd think guarantees problems.
It's like no ones in charge, or many folks are doin their own thing. It's gonna bite. I can't keep track of what's goin on. 
What I'm after, is a release that works...for the most part & not have to deal with 'skeeters after. Fun helps alot but can quickly wane sortin stuff out.
Any awesome community will have baad apples..& they usually get thrown out.
joe user
Haven't had nearly the support in 2 other high up linux forums.Seems that pup is at a crossroads though with some folks that have been around for awhile..not happy where pups at, or has become. Though I don't necessarily agree with how, or the way some points are made, that's here & there.
The points that puppy used to work, out of the box is of great concern to me & if not corrected with current releases, will certainly turn off new folks, though they may be thrilled when startin out.
So awesome community for me yes but question is, why does there not seem to be more concern about what has become of pup, from the powers that be?
What may be easy for higher ups to sort out, is just a royal PITA for us regular joe (ettes
) users to figure out.I don't think anyone has answered satisfactorily why there are so many releases of pup, which I'd think guarantees problems.
It's like no ones in charge, or many folks are doin their own thing. It's gonna bite. I can't keep track of what's goin on.
What I'm after, is a release that works...for the most part & not have to deal with 'skeeters after. Fun helps alot but can quickly wane sortin stuff out.
Any awesome community will have baad apples..& they usually get thrown out.
joe user