wNOP v0.2

[nic2109]

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Indeed; as long as the reader is fluent in the language.

However the point that us old grumps are making is that - and please forgive the abrupt change of analogy - effective communication requires both Tx and Rx to be on the same wavelength, and for the signal/noise ration to be at a manageable level. Textspeak is fine in text messages, but in this kind of forum it is noise.

Good spelling, good grammar and good manners promote good communication.

[Sage]

Yse, I swa thta artcile, oto. Furthermore, whether your language is written L-R, R-L, downwards or upwards, the eyes scan the page independently of each other and semi-randomly, not beginning with the first word/character and proceeding to the second, third, .... That research is a little older and dates from the time when tiny cameras were fitted on special spectacles to record eye positions as a subject read a page of text.
Of course, we did the bit about walking around on our heads earlier, in a world in which plants grow downwards from the sky...
Nothing is quite what it seems. It seems.

I guess the foregoing serves to confirm the Brits are crazy?! Perhaps only our cousins in Oz will share the humorous perversity of it all?

[Aitch]

Yse, I swa thta artcile, oto

what it also doesn't say is, you have to be reasonably proficient in the language, it helps if english is your mother tongue, and the perverse sense of humour is probably not essential

aitch

[shr1k]

Sorry I wasn't clear.
I meant the button shown below. When I click it the only option I can choose is log out, its the same with the quit button on the start menu.

[Sage]

"Two nations divided by a common language" !
Who said that!!!
What are they doing to our language? I'm afraid we're going to have to send our fastest sailing ships to deliver a broadside.

[Mini-Me]

[tombh]

@Mini-Me: I have used Metisse once, but I've never used Looking Glass before. Looking Glass looks the more interesting, especially as it's made by SUN Microsystems. They both need 3D enabled cards I see, so I guess their min. specs. will not be too far off that of Compiz-Fusion. CF will actually run on most graphics cards as long as it has "non power of two" support -- and I'm regularly surprised by reports on the forum about old PCs wobbling, I think there was even a PII in there! So CF certainly 'raises the bar', but I'm not sure it raises it that much above the requirements of these other 3D environments.

I know that those of the CF community would like to see all the various 3D efforts (even KDE4 has its own 'wobbly' effects now) consolidated into one project (they'd say the Compiz-Fusion project!) and in fact the latest CF (v 0.7.5) actually provides most of the functionality and effects offered by these other projects.

So I don't want to put you off! I think it'd certainly be good to have a go with these other projects, try the undeb thing, and I think there is already a dotpet for Metisse somewhere. But I suppose a line has to be drawn somewhere, I mean even XFCE won't run on older PCs and that's just a Window Manager. So as far as creating a 3D solution there will always be a cut-off point, that's already decided for you, the only choice we have is where the most
sensible place to put it might be.

@shr1k: I've come across this before, but I can't remember what I did now. I have the same problem from the start menu button. have you tried a quick search on the forum for the problem cos I think NOP has had the same problem?

@Pobl: Pwy syn gallu siarad cymraeg yma?

[nic2109]

I meant the button shown below. When I click it the only option I can choose is log out, its the same with the quit button on the start menu.

I've not had problems with this button, but for me the "Start" button (on the Task bar at the foot of the screen) usually needs 3 or 4 clicks before anything happens. Once it does work then the usual 3 options appear.

[Sage]

Chwith dim fi!

[Sage]

Wow! Another show stopper! Not even a peep from Patagonia.
They didn't need it in Bosnia - remember, our boys don't need encryption.

[Mini-Me]

"non power of two" support ( Guess I'd Better Google / Research that ), there's a Number of Other Cards that I Frequently come across, 3D FX, Matrox, S3, also 32 MB Cards seem 2 B' More Common than 64 MB Species, Leading Me 2 Ask the Original Question Looking Glass Vs Compiz-Fusion Vs Metiisse, than again there could B' Other Reasons U Choose C-F Ov'r th' Others Ease o' Installation / Configurations / Size / Dependencies, etc besides th' aforementioned System Requirements. Go Speed Wobbles Guru!

[Sage]

This guy is immune to suggestion, humorous or otherwise. I can't understand his point. Guess he didn't get his English GCE, in which case he's going to be jobless for a very long time?

[tombh]

@Mini-Me: In my mind 3D desktop environments are the future, and are going to become more and more common-place. It's not just that they are 'cool' but it's also technically significant as they shift the burden of graphics rendering from the CPU to the role-specific GPU (Graphics Processing Unit -- your video card in other words). This makes far more sense -- why burden the CPU with tasks when video cards are becoming so powerful in their own right? So those that are pioneering this new approach to using a computer --and lets not forget how central the GUI is to usability-- are potentially laying the ground for a much more encompassing revolution than mere eye-candy!

This is why I support Compiz-Fusion, it'd be great if all the various projects could work together, but failing that CF seems to have the most support, the coolest effects and the smartest technical minds.

@Sage: Hey, so have you ever been to Wales? I used to live in West Wales for a good 20 years. I went to primary school in Llanllwni, secondary school in Carmarthen and uni in Lampeter.

[dinky]

Had a look at the 'Looking Glass Project', really interesting. I might have a play around with it and see... wonder if it's more stable than compiz-fusion?

Hey tombh, what did you do to change NOP into wNOP? I want to have a go making tigerpup from Puppy unleashed, as it's becoming different enough from NOP to warrant it. Also, any idea how this might work using Puppy 4? Am downloading Puppy 4 now, but as far as I'm aware this latest version automatically detects the screen resolution... where does that leave the Compiz wizard script you wrote to work? Cheers,

~dinky

[Wilsonb]

Looking forward to Compiz full package install .pet for Puppy 4

[tombh]

@dinky: I have 2 magic bits of paper that record the secret recipe for wNOP, they're a bit messy so it's good to copy them out here anyway;

* 1 x XFCE-based Puppy

Install
* python_for_CCSM.pet
* latest Compiz-Fusion
* Optional: compile and compress CCSM to reduce space (~8MB)
* OpenGL
* Xorg DRI modules
* wNOPinspect script (/usr/sbin)
* cfwizard (/usr/sbin)
* wfairy script (/usr/sbin)
* 2 x latest nVidia drivers
* latest ATI driver (a lot can be stripped form this)

Edit
* findhostbridge (/usr/sbin) it has a bug -- MU has published a fix on the forum.
* Add Load "dri" to etc/X11/xorg.conf0
* turn ARGB off in etc/profile
* Add conditonal for autostart of CF in /root/.xinitrc
* Modify compiz-manager
---- xfwm4 is fallback WM
---- extend whitelist
---- reduce blacklist
* add wfairy button to xfce-panel at /root/.config
* make Gxine's default driver xshm
* reorder the default session load order at /usr/local/etc/xdg
* remove unused DRI modules to save space (VIA, Sys, etc)

I think that's everything. Let me know if you want to know more about any of it. You can just copy the relevant files from wNOP, so you don't actually have to know what any of the edits actually are.

Good luck

@Wilsonb:

[Wilsonb]

Thanks bro,
I will follow this later today if I have time..

It looks a little confusing, but will try. It's a little confusing because not sure the actual file name names... but will attempt.
Might be good to make the post a sticky as a how to, including a kind of an outline.

So, outline for example..

Install listed dependencies.
Get video card drivers working for ATI, NVidia, or Intel flavors
Get Open GL working

Then,

Make live CD from wNop Iso .2
copy specific files from it.

[dinky]

tombh:

Wow! Thanks alot. I will have a play around with this later when I have time. My little one has been sick with some kind of stomach bug, wife's pregnant, and today is supposed to be a study day....lol. I'll give it a go when I get a chance, but it's much appreciated. Cheers matey!

[Sage]

Abertawe, tombh!

[nic2109]

@tombh Now you're back thinking wNOP developments (having triumphed in the Website Olympics) how about incorporating the Cairo Dock too? It seems to me to really "go with" the C-F approach. I guess it could replace the xfce dock if wanted. If it's too heavy then perhaps the wbar could be hacked for xfce.

I'm suggesting it 'cos they are nice additions in the "Eye Candy" direction that function really well and can give it a definite Mac look and feel. Combined with C-F it does all the "Wow!" stuff Apple brag about for their OS which is nearly as bloated as Windoze. But since their designs are so well regarded, surely we can engage in a bit of flattery by imitation. And win more converts from planet Mac.

Persuing your rationale for letting the GPU handle the desktop, it makes even more sense when combined with dual-core processors, so when the latest kernel is released for Dingo, might you be able to do a wNOP for the Cutting Edge? Can't be more than a few hundred hours work, surely?