QEMU
QEMU
I think QEMU should be included in the puppy linux CD image to enable people to try it out without the hastle of downloading QEMU seperately. Having an autoplay script which installs kemu and then runs puppy in qemu on each disk would mean it was just as easy to test puppy under windows without the reboot. It would make it that much easier to show people the wonders of puppy linux on their own machines!
That's what I'm doing with PupWinQE. The current version is just the QEMU stuff, you add an ISO and go. The next version will include the stuff from the ISO. I may release the next version using Puppy 301 but I might wait for Puppy 4. The idea is to be able to run Puppy in a Windows window from the hard drive, a CD, a USB or an SD. I have no intention of including kemu because that requires an installation to the Windows system and I want to be able to leave Windows untouched. A user can install kemu on their Windows system as an option.
Felicitations & Facilitations, Rev. John G. Derrickson
Wrote fast. Goofs happen. Tell me.
Wrote fast. Goofs happen. Tell me.
-
Bruce B
Re: QEMU
I thought JaDy was / is distributing in some software format?rob wrote:What I meant was to distribute what you've done on the cd so that it is there for immediate use. No extra download. QEMU isn't particularly big, and would drive a lot more people towards puppy.
Do you mean distributing on CD media? If so, that would mean correspondence, modest payments and snail mail.
QEMU distribution
I meant inclusion of QEMU for windows within each release of the puppy iso, so all puppy cds can be loaded from windows as easily as possible without additional downloads.
Include an autorun script and puppy can load in a new window whenever the cd is inserted in a windows machine! This would just make it easier to use at, say, libraries where they can be a bit touchy about you rebooting their machines and internet downloads.
Include an autorun script and puppy can load in a new window whenever the cd is inserted in a windows machine! This would just make it easier to use at, say, libraries where they can be a bit touchy about you rebooting their machines and internet downloads.
-
Bruce B
Rob,
I sort of thought that's what you meant. You might have a good idea but I'm just not getting it.
JaDy's work is around the lines of what you are talking about. He knows more about what he is doing than I do. For this reason, I want his input.
For starters I'm an avid Qemu user and enthusiast. That's why I picked up on the topic.
Where I can't meet up with you guys is that I don't have Windows and my Qemu runs on Linux.
I really would like to explain to you about Qemu in Linux so you can see differences and make informed comments.
Random and unorganized comments to follow:
Qemu is an application I add precompiled from the Qemu site. It is fairly small as you suggest.
The kqemu accelerator module is even smaller, but it is kernel specific, requires a compiler and won't compile because of Puppy's kernel headers. Therefore installing the source code is necessary and getting kqemu to load properly and get used is another challenge.
With Windows, I don't think the kqemu is any more than right clicking on an inf file and select install. If true lucky you.
I conceptualize Qemu / Kqemu as emulator application capable of running a variety of Operating Systems, including Puppy of course.
I tend to install the Puppy's on virtual hard disks, thereby eliminating the need for the original ISO and the distro ends up being self-contained in it's own file.
If the purpose is demonstrating Puppy without rebooting, I can do that. I can also do that and demonstrate it at very high speed.
-----------------
Obstacles I perceive and what I don't understand.
The primary obstacle is making a good enough presentation of what you want from a technical perspective that the reader can grasp it and resonate with it. The people to target in terms of catching interest would be Barry and other influential developers.
A technical issue I don't understand is how the existence of Qemu inside a puppy .iso would help in that location. I believe it would have to be installed external to the ISO file to run the ISO file.
A technical issue I have is the speed loss associated with running in Qemu. It takes a powerful computer to run it at an impressive and useful speed.
A technical issue I have is it could be an option but not an exclusive way of running. Too much design effort has been made for making Puppy a flexible distro that can run in a myriad of ways. This is one of Puppy's attractive points.
-------------------
I would like Rob's responses and clarification to my considerations
------------------
For Jady. I thought Qemu was slow. Then I thought it wasn't. My speed considerations changed with versions. I think the newest version is the fastest.
What light can you shed on my considerations?
If Qemu needs to be outside the Puppy.iso, is there a way to assemble a Qemu package optimized for Puppy, with an easy to use GUI interface, scripts and etc.?
What about Windows OS limits?
What about Windows hardware requirements?
Bruce
I sort of thought that's what you meant. You might have a good idea but I'm just not getting it.
JaDy's work is around the lines of what you are talking about. He knows more about what he is doing than I do. For this reason, I want his input.
For starters I'm an avid Qemu user and enthusiast. That's why I picked up on the topic.
Where I can't meet up with you guys is that I don't have Windows and my Qemu runs on Linux.
I really would like to explain to you about Qemu in Linux so you can see differences and make informed comments.
Random and unorganized comments to follow:
Qemu is an application I add precompiled from the Qemu site. It is fairly small as you suggest.
The kqemu accelerator module is even smaller, but it is kernel specific, requires a compiler and won't compile because of Puppy's kernel headers. Therefore installing the source code is necessary and getting kqemu to load properly and get used is another challenge.
With Windows, I don't think the kqemu is any more than right clicking on an inf file and select install. If true lucky you.
I conceptualize Qemu / Kqemu as emulator application capable of running a variety of Operating Systems, including Puppy of course.
I tend to install the Puppy's on virtual hard disks, thereby eliminating the need for the original ISO and the distro ends up being self-contained in it's own file.
If the purpose is demonstrating Puppy without rebooting, I can do that. I can also do that and demonstrate it at very high speed.
-----------------
Obstacles I perceive and what I don't understand.
The primary obstacle is making a good enough presentation of what you want from a technical perspective that the reader can grasp it and resonate with it. The people to target in terms of catching interest would be Barry and other influential developers.
A technical issue I don't understand is how the existence of Qemu inside a puppy .iso would help in that location. I believe it would have to be installed external to the ISO file to run the ISO file.
A technical issue I have is the speed loss associated with running in Qemu. It takes a powerful computer to run it at an impressive and useful speed.
A technical issue I have is it could be an option but not an exclusive way of running. Too much design effort has been made for making Puppy a flexible distro that can run in a myriad of ways. This is one of Puppy's attractive points.
-------------------
I would like Rob's responses and clarification to my considerations
------------------
For Jady. I thought Qemu was slow. Then I thought it wasn't. My speed considerations changed with versions. I think the newest version is the fastest.
What light can you shed on my considerations?
If Qemu needs to be outside the Puppy.iso, is there a way to assemble a Qemu package optimized for Puppy, with an easy to use GUI interface, scripts and etc.?
What about Windows OS limits?
What about Windows hardware requirements?
Bruce
Exactly. I'm working on it. Intend to release when I'm really, really happy with Dingo. It's almost there. I'm almost happy. So, real soon now. 
(But, of course, for an old-timer like me, soon is not tomorrow but weeks or months. The impatient can be satisfied with Barry's frantic pace. I just can't keep up.)
(But, of course, for an old-timer like me, soon is not tomorrow but weeks or months. The impatient can be satisfied with Barry's frantic pace. I just can't keep up.)
Felicitations & Facilitations, Rev. John G. Derrickson
Wrote fast. Goofs happen. Tell me.
Wrote fast. Goofs happen. Tell me.
QEMU
On windows, running qemu is simply a matter of running a batch file which supplies the command line parameters to the qemu executable. Autorun is a feature in windows which loads a particular file when a new cd is inserted. By providing an autorun file on the cd along with the qemu files, it should be possible to load qemu when the cd is inserted and tell it to see the cd drive.
This would allow qemu to boot from the cd without any configuration from within windows. It may also be possible to run the kqemu module for windows. You are correct, it is just a .ini file you click and install, but this can be automated.
So the steps to get puppy running in windows would be 1. burn cd, 2. insert cd. Nice and simple. This way I imagine people using puppy as an extra set of applications on windows. If their pc gets trashed, few applications work, they get spyware, etc. Puppy is a nice easy way they can continue to use their pc.
This would allow qemu to boot from the cd without any configuration from within windows. It may also be possible to run the kqemu module for windows. You are correct, it is just a .ini file you click and install, but this can be automated.
So the steps to get puppy running in windows would be 1. burn cd, 2. insert cd. Nice and simple. This way I imagine people using puppy as an extra set of applications on windows. If their pc gets trashed, few applications work, they get spyware, etc. Puppy is a nice easy way they can continue to use their pc.
I intend to implement the autorun feature for PupWinQE. Don't know if I'll do kqemu, because it sort-of modifies the Windows environment. But, perhaps I will, especially since that now kqemu is legal to include with a distribution (if I understand correctly).
Felicitations & Facilitations, Rev. John G. Derrickson
Wrote fast. Goofs happen. Tell me.
Wrote fast. Goofs happen. Tell me.
-
kwatson512
Puppy under Qemu on USB flash drive
JaDy, I would be very interested in a non-ISO-based implementation of Puppy under Qemu. I need to run this in a virtual machine that does not modify the host in any way. All of my trials have been on a 512-mb USB flash drive with various Windows XP SP2 hosts. Host hardware has been more than adequate--at least 2G RAM, 1.66GHz or faster dual-core processors, etc. I usually set Qemu for 512 mb RAM.
This may ramble a bit. I've tried several things, and am a relative noob to things Linux.
I tried PupWinQE, modified the batch file to work with Puppy 4.00 Dingo, and it worked fine, but was dreadfully slow. PupWinQE runs the ISO file. It also failed to save changes.
I've also installed Dingo directly to a 512-mb USB flash, using syslinux to boot. That works beautifully, but it doesn't meet my need to launch Puppy without rebooting.
I successfully implemented a VMWare pocket ACE package on a 16mb USB flash drive, running Mandriva. But both VMWare and VirtualBox install files on the host and require a reboot to run virtual machines, even if the VM is on an external drive like USB.
I tried copying all the files from my successful Dingo USB install into a folder, and then copying all of that back into a Qemu folder on the USB stick. I'm not sure what to put in the single command line to get it to boot.
I do not want to run the kqemu accelerator. I also don't care whether autorun is implemented or not. It's easy enough to click on whatever executable is there to get things going.
Any suggestions?
This may ramble a bit. I've tried several things, and am a relative noob to things Linux.
I tried PupWinQE, modified the batch file to work with Puppy 4.00 Dingo, and it worked fine, but was dreadfully slow. PupWinQE runs the ISO file. It also failed to save changes.
I've also installed Dingo directly to a 512-mb USB flash, using syslinux to boot. That works beautifully, but it doesn't meet my need to launch Puppy without rebooting.
I successfully implemented a VMWare pocket ACE package on a 16mb USB flash drive, running Mandriva. But both VMWare and VirtualBox install files on the host and require a reboot to run virtual machines, even if the VM is on an external drive like USB.
I tried copying all the files from my successful Dingo USB install into a folder, and then copying all of that back into a Qemu folder on the USB stick. I'm not sure what to put in the single command line to get it to boot.
I do not want to run the kqemu accelerator. I also don't care whether autorun is implemented or not. It's easy enough to click on whatever executable is there to get things going.
Any suggestions?
-
kwatson512
Puppy under Qemu on USB flash drive
Update: Today I have been trying to use the set of scripts on pendrivelinux.com (http://www.pendrivelinux.com/2007/03/13 ... ard-drive/), designed for Ubuntu but easily modified for any Linux distribution. It seems that this same script has been tailored for several different Linux distributions on the pendrivelinux site. I'm happy to share my modifications with anyone interested.
It uses Qemu to walk users through four steps:
1. Extract the scripts to a folder on the desired USB drive.
2. Move the desired distribution .iso file to that folder and run it from there as a virtual live CD, and create a virtual hard drive for full installation.
3. Use the distribution's own install program to install to the virtual hard drive.
4. Use a convenient batch file to launch the full installation on the virtual hard drive, under Qemu.
I can get the Puppy 4 .iso to run fine, and to install on the virtual hard drive, but I can't figure out how to get a bootloader installed this way.
The virtual hard drive is identified as /dev/hda, and the Puppy univeral installer recognizes it as an internal hard drive. I have tried both full and frugal modes, but neither one gets me completely through the bootloader. It assumes I have an existing instance of grub or want to launch with Wakepup, neither of which is true in my case.
So close, but so far...
Help?
It uses Qemu to walk users through four steps:
1. Extract the scripts to a folder on the desired USB drive.
2. Move the desired distribution .iso file to that folder and run it from there as a virtual live CD, and create a virtual hard drive for full installation.
3. Use the distribution's own install program to install to the virtual hard drive.
4. Use a convenient batch file to launch the full installation on the virtual hard drive, under Qemu.
I can get the Puppy 4 .iso to run fine, and to install on the virtual hard drive, but I can't figure out how to get a bootloader installed this way.
The virtual hard drive is identified as /dev/hda, and the Puppy univeral installer recognizes it as an internal hard drive. I have tried both full and frugal modes, but neither one gets me completely through the bootloader. It assumes I have an existing instance of grub or want to launch with Wakepup, neither of which is true in my case.
So close, but so far...
Help?
-
kwatson512
Still can't install bootloader
Well, using the Puppy univeral installer I was able to do a frugal install into my virtual hard drive (hda) under qemu. However, the choices available for booting were incomplete. Resorting to the manual (fancy that!), I tried manually installing grub. I mounted the new hda and created a /boot directory, a /grub directory within that, and the following menu.lst file there:
Then I copied the grub files from /usr/lib/grub/i386xxx to the new /boot/grub directory.
Finally, I tried to install grub from a terminal within the /boot/grub directory:
The grub command executed, and the root command identified the file system. Setup failed because it said stage1 and stage2 did not exist (however, they did, because I verified I correctly copied them there).
So I still don't have a bootable virtual hard drive.
Code: Select all
title Puppy Linux 400 frugal
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
kernel /vmlinuz pmedia=idehd
initrd /initrd.gzThen I copied the grub files from /usr/lib/grub/i386xxx to the new /boot/grub directory.
Finally, I tried to install grub from a terminal within the /boot/grub directory:
Code: Select all
grub
root (hd0,0)
setup (hd0)
quitSo I still don't have a bootable virtual hard drive.
Using Puppy without rebooting the host computer.
Hi y'all.
@kwatson512
@Rob
Lucky for you Erik Veenstra IMHO already made what you are after
A Long time ago.
Read-it and weep.
~QEMU-Puppy~
"QEMU-Puppy is an OS and a set of applications on a USB memory stick.
This OS can be booted natively, or on top of an other, already installed, OS.
Just borrow a PC, boot your own environment and return the PC
unaffected."
~From the QEMU-Puppy Introduction.
"The USB memory stick is cheap, light and easier to protect.
A virtual machine , like QEMU, is cheap, light and easy to protect as well.
With such a virtual machine, we are able to boot our OS on top of the already installed OS.
Now we have two OS's running concurrently on one
machine! ALT-TAB is enough to hide your machine and get back to work..."
~From the QEMU-Puppy Introduction.
"The tricky part is trying to have the OS on your USB memory stick to be
able to boot both natively and in a virtual machine. But it can be done. And
that's what makes QEMU-Puppy unique."
~From the QEMU-Puppy Introduction.
QEMU-Puppy`s Home Page.
http://www.erikveen.dds.nl/qemupuppy/#1.0.0
Time Saver Links.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/qemupuppy/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&clie ... tnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&clie ... tnG=Search
I've used QEMU-Puppy,
It's pretty darn fun! IMO.
@kwatson512
@Rob
Lucky for you Erik Veenstra IMHO already made what you are after
A Long time ago.
Read-it and weep.
~QEMU-Puppy~
"QEMU-Puppy is an OS and a set of applications on a USB memory stick.
This OS can be booted natively, or on top of an other, already installed, OS.
Just borrow a PC, boot your own environment and return the PC
unaffected."
~From the QEMU-Puppy Introduction.
"The USB memory stick is cheap, light and easier to protect.
A virtual machine , like QEMU, is cheap, light and easy to protect as well.
With such a virtual machine, we are able to boot our OS on top of the already installed OS.
Now we have two OS's running concurrently on one
machine! ALT-TAB is enough to hide your machine and get back to work..."
~From the QEMU-Puppy Introduction.
"The tricky part is trying to have the OS on your USB memory stick to be
able to boot both natively and in a virtual machine. But it can be done. And
that's what makes QEMU-Puppy unique."
~From the QEMU-Puppy Introduction.
QEMU-Puppy`s Home Page.http://www.erikveen.dds.nl/qemupuppy/#1.0.0
Time Saver Links.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/qemupuppy/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&clie ... tnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&clie ... tnG=Search
I've used QEMU-Puppy,
It's pretty darn fun! IMO.