"installing GRUB will also overwrite the OEM MBR and therefore prevent access to the hidden partition"
I want to make a frugal install but already have a boot loader for wubi.
Would not that one get over written if one do as the install says.
I also want to test TeenPup, SliTaz, Linux Mint and so on.
So I need to be able to boot many different versions of linux.
No I will not do partitions!
As a compromise I could use virtual install in Sun's vbox maybe.
I've already tested ubuntu in vbox and that was ok.
But a frugal teenpup would be cool but need to get what the grub does.
Can someone explain GRUB and MBR for Frugal install? Solved
Can someone explain GRUB and MBR for Frugal install? Solved
Last edited by nooby on Sun 06 Jul 2008, 16:36, edited 1 time in total.
I'm dual-booting Windows XP and Ubuntu on my main box and want to add a frugal installation of Puppy. I found a post that might help both of us.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=30831
It looks like doing the fugal installation to the existing linux partition and just editing the existing menu.lst is all that is necessary.
I'm a Puppy newbie, too. I have not done this (yet) myself. Good luck to both of us.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=30831
It looks like doing the fugal installation to the existing linux partition and just editing the existing menu.lst is all that is necessary.
I'm a Puppy newbie, too. I have not done this (yet) myself. Good luck to both of us.
Very much appreciated that you wanted to help.
Unfortunate it is several levels above my level of getting it.
First there is a big complexity I guess.
The Ubuntu install I have is a WUBI install.
Maybe it isn't a big thing cause maybe their grup is not inside
the loop mounted file. What ever that is.
The BIOS need to be able to read it as it is thought of since way back in time when they did it this way first time?
So it need to be something very robust I guess so you could be
right that you and I can do it too.
But when I look at that thread I kind of get lost in all the details.
I'm not sure what I am expected to do.
I should use the editor in puppy to open a certain file that the ubuntu guys wrote so maybe me can go to their forum at ubuntuforums and
ask them the name and place of it.
And maybe it is write protected too?
Are you sure their file is similar to the one the puppy users write about? Are there a standard for how they are supposed to look?
They must be read by a very basic parser sort of. Machine code by a program in the BIOS?
Hope others jump in an give comments on how to do it?
Unfortunate it is several levels above my level of getting it.
First there is a big complexity I guess.
The Ubuntu install I have is a WUBI install.
Maybe it isn't a big thing cause maybe their grup is not inside
the loop mounted file. What ever that is.
The BIOS need to be able to read it as it is thought of since way back in time when they did it this way first time?
So it need to be something very robust I guess so you could be
right that you and I can do it too.
But when I look at that thread I kind of get lost in all the details.
I'm not sure what I am expected to do.
I should use the editor in puppy to open a certain file that the ubuntu guys wrote so maybe me can go to their forum at ubuntuforums and
ask them the name and place of it.
And maybe it is write protected too?
Are you sure their file is similar to the one the puppy users write about? Are there a standard for how they are supposed to look?
They must be read by a very basic parser sort of. Machine code by a program in the BIOS?
Hope others jump in an give comments on how to do it?
Could this
I mean this part in the boot.ini
(the ubuntu have their own wubuilder.mbr and they are not editable. )
that is the file we should edit and know where to put in there and how the text should look like?
I wish I knew how many distros one can put in such a place?
Here is a good link I hope.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/289022
Maybe these two also are helpful?
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php? ... t+boot.ini
and The easiest trippleboot
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php? ... t+boot.ini
I mean this part in the boot.ini
(the ubuntu have their own wubuilder.mbr and they are not editable. )
[boot loader]
timeout=15
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Micro soft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
c:\wubildr.mbr="Ubuntu"
that is the file we should edit and know where to put in there and how the text should look like?
I wish I knew how many distros one can put in such a place?
Here is a good link I hope.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/289022
Maybe these two also are helpful?
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php? ... t+boot.ini
and The easiest trippleboot
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php? ... t+boot.ini
Of those three links, the second and third are for dual and triple booting from Apple OS X. I'd rather not go there if I can avoid it.
The first link is MicroSoft's tips for editing the BOOT.INI file in the Windows partition. It may be helpful, but I found a different link for how to install puppy to a Windows XP partition that looks better for us.
http://www.ph-islands.net/pupinstall/winxp.php
But I would prefer to install Puppy in the Ubuntu partition instead of the Windows partition. I need to see how similar the file systems and names are in Ubuntu and Puppy. In particular, does Ubuntu have a /boot/grub/menu.lst file? I will find out later this evening.
The third sticky at the beginning of this forum is named "Index of resources for Beginners Help". One of the entries is "Edit the GRUB menu configuration file". It seems helpful. And there are a whole series of howto entries for various installations. There is a lot of good stuff.
Here's another thread that may be useful.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=30661
The first link is MicroSoft's tips for editing the BOOT.INI file in the Windows partition. It may be helpful, but I found a different link for how to install puppy to a Windows XP partition that looks better for us.
http://www.ph-islands.net/pupinstall/winxp.php
But I would prefer to install Puppy in the Ubuntu partition instead of the Windows partition. I need to see how similar the file systems and names are in Ubuntu and Puppy. In particular, does Ubuntu have a /boot/grub/menu.lst file? I will find out later this evening.
The third sticky at the beginning of this forum is named "Index of resources for Beginners Help". One of the entries is "Edit the GRUB menu configuration file". It seems helpful. And there are a whole series of howto entries for various installations. There is a lot of good stuff.
Here's another thread that may be useful.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=30661
From what I have read about wubi it uses the same method to boot Ubuntu as I use in my Lin'N'Win method - namely grub4DOS.
If you are already successfully using wubi then using Puppy should be a matter of copying the 4 Puppy files to a folder /puppy400 on the Windows partition and adding a section to the menu.lst file created by wubi.
The contents of the menu.lst file for Puppy can be found in the Lin'N'Win instructions.
If you are already successfully using wubi then using Puppy should be a matter of copying the 4 Puppy files to a folder /puppy400 on the Windows partition and adding a section to the menu.lst file created by wubi.
The contents of the menu.lst file for Puppy can be found in the Lin'N'Win instructions.
Thanks indeed all of you.
I need to test this ASAP
Now I am playing with a complement to Puppy.
Not a competition I hope. SliTaz has been written
about in other threads so lets not talk about it here.
I will read the links and try to do a frugal install of
Puppy 4 Dingo then. within next 24 hours I hope,
Just now me learn to use DVD+RW to see if they are
as bad as Barry say. Apology if he has changed mind.
I had three laying around unused so I test one of them with SliTaz linux now.
I need to test this ASAP
Now I am playing with a complement to Puppy.
Not a competition I hope. SliTaz has been written
about in other threads so lets not talk about it here.
I will read the links and try to do a frugal install of
Puppy 4 Dingo then. within next 24 hours I hope,
Just now me learn to use DVD+RW to see if they are
as bad as Barry say. Apology if he has changed mind.
I had three laying around unused so I test one of them with SliTaz linux now.
Jay, took a long time and I had to trick boot.ini by saving it first in another place and then rename the original and then move the new one
and now I have done all in the steps.
I only have to log out and shut down and see if this frugal thing works.
Most likely me have done some detail wrong but I did my best to
follow every turn of it.
Exciting really hopes it works. If I'm not back within some ten minutes then
I lost internet or even computer hd and will start up laptop and wiine.
and now I have done all in the steps.
I only have to log out and shut down and see if this frugal thing works.
Most likely me have done some detail wrong but I did my best to
follow every turn of it.
Exciting really hopes it works. If I'm not back within some ten minutes then
I lost internet or even computer hd and will start up laptop and wiine.
typical. something must have gone wrong.
the famous hal.dll is destroyed or not there.
But windows works.
Could there be things from the iso buster that made things to hal.dll
Had no such trouble using neither Puppy or SliTaz before following the
step for step description of lin' n win
How do I repair this.
here is how my boot.ini
look now
[boot loader]
timeout=15
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
c:\grldr="Start Linux"
I want to have h:\grldr="Start Linux" there instead cause I have all
on H: due to how the motherboard is done the shop told me.
should try to change c to h?
the famous hal.dll is destroyed or not there.
But windows works.
Could there be things from the iso buster that made things to hal.dll
Had no such trouble using neither Puppy or SliTaz before following the
step for step description of lin' n win
How do I repair this.
here is how my boot.ini
look now
[boot loader]
timeout=15
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
c:\grldr="Start Linux"
I want to have h:\grldr="Start Linux" there instead cause I have all
on H: due to how the motherboard is done the shop told me.
should try to change c to h?
I did my best to take the .txt away but maybe it is still there.
I managed to get hal.dll back by going back to the original boot.ini
How do I find out the extension of grlbr then if it kind of hide it to me?
I guess I have to check out how to unhide it again.
You got it right that one I must have missed it had .txt after it.
I test again
I managed to get hal.dll back by going back to the original boot.ini
How do I find out the extension of grlbr then if it kind of hide it to me?
I guess I have to check out how to unhide it again.
You got it right that one I must have missed it had .txt after it.
I test again
Should the menu.lst look lik this
# GvR Sept 30th 2004
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout=5
default=0
title Default Boot on HD 0
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
boot
title Puppy Linux 4.00
kernel (hd0,0)/vmlinuz PMEDIA=idehd PDEV1=hda1 psubdir=puppy400
initrd (hd0,0)/initrd.gz
boot
And something else it says that my pup_400.sfs can't be found.
And also that /bin/sh can't be accessed.
So maybe something else went wrong too.
Now when I use the orginal boot.ini something must be missing.
It suggest me choose ubuntu and when I do this then puppy is shown as a second choice and that goes well for one round but then fails with pup_400.sfs not found.
# GvR Sept 30th 2004
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout=5
default=0
title Default Boot on HD 0
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
boot
title Puppy Linux 4.00
kernel (hd0,0)/vmlinuz PMEDIA=idehd PDEV1=hda1 psubdir=puppy400
initrd (hd0,0)/initrd.gz
boot
And something else it says that my pup_400.sfs can't be found.
And also that /bin/sh can't be accessed.
So maybe something else went wrong too.
Now when I use the orginal boot.ini something must be missing.
It suggest me choose ubuntu and when I do this then puppy is shown as a second choice and that goes well for one round but then fails with pup_400.sfs not found.
ICPUG wrote:From what I have read about wubi it uses the same method to boot Ubuntu as I use in my Lin'N'Win method - namely grub4DOS.
If you are already successfully using wubi then using Puppy should be a matter of copying the 4 Puppy files to a folder /puppy400 on the Windows partition and adding a section to the menu.lst file created by wubi.
The contents of the menu.lst file for Puppy can be found in the Lin'N'Win instructions.
If I get your suggestion there then I should be able to add puppy
and be able to tripple boot them on at a time after logging out change
to another of them.
I must have done something wrong somewhere.
I get confused about this :
If you a win xp sp2 don't do this. What or which "this" is referred to?
Being desperate I tested to placed pup_400.sfs in both places.
Should I have wmlinux in both too just to cover all eventulaties?
I try to go through the steps one more time.
How to run Puppy Linux..Testing without dramas.
A different approach>
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=29881
Boot from the CD.
Copy the pup_xxx.sfs and zdrv_xxx.sfs to your hard drive and boot.
The 2 files must be renamed to lower case if copied in Windows.
Different Puppies...different names where xxx is substituted.
With NTFS drives make sure Windows shuts down properly.
Otherwise Puppy will not see your 2 main files or the
swap and save files that it makes.
If you run Fat32 partitions this is not the case.
It's like a safety issue (simply expressed) that if XP does not
shut down properly...Puppy recognises this and does not
screw around with your files.
Do NOT partition your disk.
If you have another partition put the files there...no problem.
It will save you heartache.
I run Puppies all the time but still boot into XP.
Safer for you and simpler.
Still fast...I run Puppy on low to high end computers.
My E:\ Drive fat32 partition....example.
MSY_083.SFS
msy_save.2fs
pup_215.sfs|
zdrv_215.sfs|
contains the zdrv(Drivers) file for Puppy 2.15CE
and the pup.sfs file (Main files) as well for Puppy 2.15CE.
So if I boot up...and can connect with the internet..then setup the
firewall etc...screen size(usually 1024 x 768) etc,
I reboot and let it save the swap file-save files to the same
hard drive as the 2 main files.
The hard drives are named differently in Linux.
Make a folder named:
eg: 1 For Puppy Linux....
on the same drive or partition that you copy the
main files off the Puppy CD in Windows.
When you boot Puppy first...
mount the drives and see what Puppy calls the drive
with the folder 1 For Puppy Linux.
Write it down to avoid confusion.
You must UNMOUNT the drives before Rebooting.
Puppy will ask you if you want to save your settings
the first time.
Make sure that it is the same drive as that folder.
Leave the CD in and reboot and - hopefully
all your settngs are saved.
The MSY_083.SFS and msy_save.2fs are from
MU and his Minisys Muppy08.
He only has one file combined for this Puplet.
Maybe this may be a better first time Puppy
for you...everything works straight up.
Just enable Firewall?
Chris.
A different approach>
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=29881
Boot from the CD.
Copy the pup_xxx.sfs and zdrv_xxx.sfs to your hard drive and boot.
The 2 files must be renamed to lower case if copied in Windows.
Different Puppies...different names where xxx is substituted.
With NTFS drives make sure Windows shuts down properly.
Otherwise Puppy will not see your 2 main files or the
swap and save files that it makes.
If you run Fat32 partitions this is not the case.
It's like a safety issue (simply expressed) that if XP does not
shut down properly...Puppy recognises this and does not
screw around with your files.
Do NOT partition your disk.
If you have another partition put the files there...no problem.
It will save you heartache.
I run Puppies all the time but still boot into XP.
Safer for you and simpler.
Still fast...I run Puppy on low to high end computers.
My E:\ Drive fat32 partition....example.
MSY_083.SFS
msy_save.2fs
pup_215.sfs|
zdrv_215.sfs|
contains the zdrv(Drivers) file for Puppy 2.15CE
and the pup.sfs file (Main files) as well for Puppy 2.15CE.
So if I boot up...and can connect with the internet..then setup the
firewall etc...screen size(usually 1024 x 768) etc,
I reboot and let it save the swap file-save files to the same
hard drive as the 2 main files.
The hard drives are named differently in Linux.
Make a folder named:
eg: 1 For Puppy Linux....
on the same drive or partition that you copy the
main files off the Puppy CD in Windows.
When you boot Puppy first...
mount the drives and see what Puppy calls the drive
with the folder 1 For Puppy Linux.
Write it down to avoid confusion.
You must UNMOUNT the drives before Rebooting.
Puppy will ask you if you want to save your settings
the first time.
Make sure that it is the same drive as that folder.
Leave the CD in and reboot and - hopefully
all your settngs are saved.
The MSY_083.SFS and msy_save.2fs are from
MU and his Minisys Muppy08.
He only has one file combined for this Puplet.
Maybe this may be a better first time Puppy
for you...everything works straight up.
Just enable Firewall?
Chris.
Chris I will try your approach in a while or tomorrow.
I will try the approach I do now till I have tested all options me
can have gone wrong.
Help me understand this.
is. It is a SATA HD yes but it is not in RAID it is a kind of sata ide not sure how it is named.
So should I rename or not?
I have already tested to rename and that didn't work either so there is
something else going on there.
so Chris maybe get it right. I have to look how puppy see the mount
and mimic that info in the boot.ini and so on.
So that is a good suggestion.
I will try the approach I do now till I have tested all options me
can have gone wrong.
Help me understand this.
I have SATA but not regular sata. It is more Pata or what the name1) If you have a SATA hard drive, instead of an IDE drive, then idehd is replaced by satahd and hda1 is replaced by sda1.
is. It is a SATA HD yes but it is not in RAID it is a kind of sata ide not sure how it is named.
So should I rename or not?
I have already tested to rename and that didn't work either so there is
something else going on there.
so Chris maybe get it right. I have to look how puppy see the mount
and mimic that info in the boot.ini and so on.
So that is a good suggestion.
System: 3 year old Dell GX620, integrated graphics and sound, 3.2 GHz Pentium 4, 1 GB of RAM, 2 SATA HD (sd1 = 160 GB, sd2 = 250 GB) dual booting Windows XP SP3 (sd1) and Ubuntu Linux 7.04 (sd2).
Installation type: Puppy Linux 4.00 Dingo, frugal installation to the Ubuntu partition on sd2, triple boot with Ubuntu and Windows.
This has worked out rather well so far.
I booted from the Dingo LiveCD and started the universal installer. I chose a frugal install on sd2 in the Ubuntu partition. When the installer asked whether I wanted to use a folder named puppy400, I answered yes so all of the Puppy files would be in one place. From there on, it was just a matter of using the default choices right to the end of the installation.
The universal installer even wrote the necessary lines to add to menu.lst. They were put in /mnt/sd2/tmp under the name NEWGRUBTEXT:
title Puppy Linux 400 frugal
rootnoverify (hd1,0)
kernel /puppy400/vmlinuz pmedia=satahd psubdir=puppy400
initrd /puppy400/initrd.gz
Your NEWGRUBTEXT may vary from mine, depending on your hardware. If you have only one hard drive, you'd have hd0 in the second line where mine has hd1. If you have a PATA hard drive instead of a SATA hard drive, the third line would include pmedia=idehd. If you use a different name for the Puppy folder instead of puppy400, your folder's name would appear in lines 3 and 4.
I did not have to make any changes to the MBR. Ubuntu uses the Grub boot loader and menu.lst, just like Puppy does. The Ubuntu installation had already made the changes to the MBR. The only thing still needed was to edit Ubuntu’s menu.lst. I went to the /mnt/sd2/boot/grub folder, and made a backup of menu.lst in case of errors. Then I right clicked on menu.lst, opened it as text, and started looking for the place to insert the text in NEWGRUBTEXT.
After going three quarters of the way down menu.lst, I reached the end of the default options and the beginning of the boot list. I wanted Puppy to come second in the list. My menu.lst now looks like this:
(No change to menu.lst to this point)
## ## End Default Options ##
title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-16-generic
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-16-generic root=UUID=37ddf185-0c3a-4d0d-b8e6-e41933474de4 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-16-generic
quiet
savedefault
title Puppy Linux 400 frugal
rootnoverify (hd1,0)
kernel /puppy400/vmlinuz pmedia=satahd psubdir=puppy400
initrd /puppy400/initrd.gz
(No change to the rest of menu.lst)
The only change that I made to menu.lst was to insert the lines from NEWGRUBTEXT as show here.
Save menu.lst and shut down Puppy without making a save.2fs file.
When I started the computer again, Ubuntu, Puppy, and Windows XP were in the boot list. The frugal installation of Puppy started when it was selected.
Installation type: Puppy Linux 4.00 Dingo, frugal installation to the Ubuntu partition on sd2, triple boot with Ubuntu and Windows.
This has worked out rather well so far.
I booted from the Dingo LiveCD and started the universal installer. I chose a frugal install on sd2 in the Ubuntu partition. When the installer asked whether I wanted to use a folder named puppy400, I answered yes so all of the Puppy files would be in one place. From there on, it was just a matter of using the default choices right to the end of the installation.
The universal installer even wrote the necessary lines to add to menu.lst. They were put in /mnt/sd2/tmp under the name NEWGRUBTEXT:
title Puppy Linux 400 frugal
rootnoverify (hd1,0)
kernel /puppy400/vmlinuz pmedia=satahd psubdir=puppy400
initrd /puppy400/initrd.gz
Your NEWGRUBTEXT may vary from mine, depending on your hardware. If you have only one hard drive, you'd have hd0 in the second line where mine has hd1. If you have a PATA hard drive instead of a SATA hard drive, the third line would include pmedia=idehd. If you use a different name for the Puppy folder instead of puppy400, your folder's name would appear in lines 3 and 4.
I did not have to make any changes to the MBR. Ubuntu uses the Grub boot loader and menu.lst, just like Puppy does. The Ubuntu installation had already made the changes to the MBR. The only thing still needed was to edit Ubuntu’s menu.lst. I went to the /mnt/sd2/boot/grub folder, and made a backup of menu.lst in case of errors. Then I right clicked on menu.lst, opened it as text, and started looking for the place to insert the text in NEWGRUBTEXT.
After going three quarters of the way down menu.lst, I reached the end of the default options and the beginning of the boot list. I wanted Puppy to come second in the list. My menu.lst now looks like this:
(No change to menu.lst to this point)
## ## End Default Options ##
title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-16-generic
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-16-generic root=UUID=37ddf185-0c3a-4d0d-b8e6-e41933474de4 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-16-generic
quiet
savedefault
title Puppy Linux 400 frugal
rootnoverify (hd1,0)
kernel /puppy400/vmlinuz pmedia=satahd psubdir=puppy400
initrd /puppy400/initrd.gz
(No change to the rest of menu.lst)
The only change that I made to menu.lst was to insert the lines from NEWGRUBTEXT as show here.
Save menu.lst and shut down Puppy without making a save.2fs file.
When I started the computer again, Ubuntu, Puppy, and Windows XP were in the boot list. The frugal installation of Puppy started when it was selected.
Paul thanks but now I first need to find out how to get my HD back
I am able to write this cause I have used the puppy dvd to boot.
the HD fail to boot at all. Even in puppy mount.
And the window system disk fails to do chkdsk and I ordered it
to fixmbr but that doesn't seem to work either.
should I have given it some options?
I am not used to repair hd.
Worst of all Puppy fail to mount it.
Last time that did happen I got it back by shutting down properly
so I try that again.
so if you know how to repair using system disk then please
tell me how.
Desperate!
I am able to write this cause I have used the puppy dvd to boot.
the HD fail to boot at all. Even in puppy mount.
And the window system disk fails to do chkdsk and I ordered it
to fixmbr but that doesn't seem to work either.
should I have given it some options?
I am not used to repair hd.
Worst of all Puppy fail to mount it.
Last time that did happen I got it back by shutting down properly
so I try that again.
so if you know how to repair using system disk then please
tell me how.
Desperate!
Paul this one:
didn't know we have pata. So I change back there. Should I have hda1 then
or hda0 maybe?
Puppy says it use sda1 so I wrote that one in the menu.lst I change back to
idehd but use sda1 and test what happens. It failed
I have wubi so I can't use your approach. Wubi doesn't have its own partition.
Doesn't the linnwin suggest one change there. But you are right theyIf you have a PATA hard drive instead of a SATA hard drive, the third line would include pmedia=idehd.
didn't know we have pata. So I change back there. Should I have hda1 then
or hda0 maybe?
Puppy says it use sda1 so I wrote that one in the menu.lst I change back to
idehd but use sda1 and test what happens. It failed
I have wubi so I can't use your approach. Wubi doesn't have its own partition.