Computer-CALAMITIES (and what I should do about it).
I ask the opinion of the forum. Corrections, better alternatives, invited.
I want to be prepared for computer failures (calamities). I have no experience with them.
I want to avoid spending a lot of time or money on recovery.
I intent to use Puppy as rescue-pgm. In case my OS has a problem (no GUI, no access). Puppy gives me access to all my HD (Windows, Ubuntu) with no fuss.
The only essential files are (personal) Correspondence and Finance (texfiles and html files). And selected pictures. At present I make backups of those.
Anything else I can afford to lose (but it would still be a bad day).
Puppy-Linux is my focus right now. It can access any HD, and FS (no NTFS in my system).
Problem 1: I tried 2 Rescue programs. They use the terminal/command-line for rescue. I cannot use that because it takes more time to learn the commands than I save by using them. As the commands are used very infrequently, I would have to write them down in logical fashion.
Is there a good GUI driven Rescue-pgm? (bootable or under Puppy-OS).
WHAT IF :
Calamity 1: HD (HardDrive) does not sign on (BIOS cannot see the HD, Puppy does not show the HD).
My (herman) solution: "Nothing you can can do. Only solution is: Make backups.
(sending to a hardware specialist to retrieve the files is out the question)
Calamity 2: Corrupted FAT (File Allocation Table).
My (herman) opinion:
When Puppy Linux (any OS) is complaining 'No access. Bad FAT' I have no more access to my files (on at least one partition).
I assume there is 1 FAT per partition. (outside the partitions there is only a partition-table, boot-information and unused disk-space).
A RESCUE program can save the files, I presume. Is there a Rescue program with GUI to do this?
Possible alternative: a command-line (terminal) program, with the commands explained?
My present way: I make infrequent backups of slow-changing, non-essential stuff.
(I make frequent backups of all essential stuff).
It is hard to practice this RESCUE stuff. When you need it, it is too late for practice .....
Herman in PHL.
How to deal with computer-calamities.
How to deal with computer-calamities.
---
Herman in Cebu, PHL.
Herman in Cebu, PHL.
rescue
True - rescue is not something I like to practice either. Personally I like to keep my data (documents, photos etc) backed up - onto flash drives and external hard drives. I also keep data in a separate partition from the operating system to make this easier. I dual boot with windows and Puppy (latest version) and find I don't like to spent time in windows anymore. Windows is not allowed on the internet which makes life a lot easier. Puppy is easily backed up by copying the pup save file onto an external drive or another partition. Also Puppy is quick to reinstall should you wish/ need to.
For bad cases I believe test disk is helpful and it can run as a live CD or from Puppy. Like you I do not use command line rescue tools finding it clearer to have a GUI. One reason I love Puppy so much is it has very helpful GUI.
Hope this is of interest. Any questions?
For bad cases I believe test disk is helpful and it can run as a live CD or from Puppy. Like you I do not use command line rescue tools finding it clearer to have a GUI. One reason I love Puppy so much is it has very helpful GUI.
Hope this is of interest. Any questions?
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Lobster
- Official Crustacean
- Posts: 15522
- Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 06:06
- Location: Paradox Realm
- Contact:
good advicebacked up - onto flash drives and external hard drives
you could also boot from a multisession Puppy (saving onto DVD)
Why not have two HD's
One for frugal install and one for data backup
or you could run from CD and back up to two HD's
or get one of those network server HD's - probably only come with Windows software?
If your HD disk freezes - then get revenge by freezing it (two hours in a freezer) you will then for some bizarre reason get 30 mins extra usage to backup data - it works and is my preferred back up routine
If your data is valuable then you are right to plan now
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Bruce B
Hermanaa,
Each data rescue operation is it's own unique procedure. Maybe deleted files, a partition, broken read heads, any number of things.
Normally, when one discovers they want to do data rescue, the first thing to do is stop writing to the disk. Don't write and don't change a thing.
Preliminary steps are to use utilities for diagnostic purposes. For example, one may use e2fsck, without making changes, rather for the purpose seeing what e2fsck makes of the situation at hand.
Sometimes one should write all data to another disk or medium using one of the dd tools as a safeguard in the event the recovery goes south.
Puppy is not a rescue disk. Sure, it had some tools which can be used, but it is not designed as a rescue disk. After version 4.00, it can and does copy a 95mb file under a variety of circumstances. That in and of itself makes it something to avoid in delicate rescue operations.
Use the right tools for the job.
Very important is this: When a disk gives problems, there is a tendency to panic. This is the last time to panic. Take your time. Know what you do.
Bruce
Each data rescue operation is it's own unique procedure. Maybe deleted files, a partition, broken read heads, any number of things.
Normally, when one discovers they want to do data rescue, the first thing to do is stop writing to the disk. Don't write and don't change a thing.
Preliminary steps are to use utilities for diagnostic purposes. For example, one may use e2fsck, without making changes, rather for the purpose seeing what e2fsck makes of the situation at hand.
Sometimes one should write all data to another disk or medium using one of the dd tools as a safeguard in the event the recovery goes south.
Puppy is not a rescue disk. Sure, it had some tools which can be used, but it is not designed as a rescue disk. After version 4.00, it can and does copy a 95mb file under a variety of circumstances. That in and of itself makes it something to avoid in delicate rescue operations.
Use the right tools for the job.
Very important is this: When a disk gives problems, there is a tendency to panic. This is the last time to panic. Take your time. Know what you do.
Bruce
Hi Hermanaa,
Welcome to Puppy Linux.
True story:
My pc had two hard drives I was using. One day I went upstairs to have dinner. Came back one hour later and I heard a clicking noise coming from one of them! During reboot I noticed that BIOS didn't see one of the hard drives. Turns out it was a Maxtor 80 gb I'd had for about 8 months. Couldn't access it at all. I read online somewhere to put it in the freezer for a couple of days and then try it. No luck. It wasn't a total loss cause I learned a good lesson: BACK IT UP!! Yeah, I lost some data but nothing sentimental. Now I use an external hard drive for backups and I use it regularly. Why? Cause you never know.
Welcome to Puppy Linux.
True story:
My pc had two hard drives I was using. One day I went upstairs to have dinner. Came back one hour later and I heard a clicking noise coming from one of them! During reboot I noticed that BIOS didn't see one of the hard drives. Turns out it was a Maxtor 80 gb I'd had for about 8 months. Couldn't access it at all. I read online somewhere to put it in the freezer for a couple of days and then try it. No luck. It wasn't a total loss cause I learned a good lesson: BACK IT UP!! Yeah, I lost some data but nothing sentimental. Now I use an external hard drive for backups and I use it regularly. Why? Cause you never know.
I've stopped using hard disk drives inside my computer. They are too unreliable to use for anything except a temporary expedient such as swap memory. I run Puppy from a multisession DVD, where I keep all my installed programs and settings. I keep an 8 GB USB flash thumb drive plugged into the computer. I mount the thumb drive when I need to save something that doesn't have anything to do with Puppy. When the thumb drive gets full I plan to move stuff from it to DVDs.
[url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69321][color=blue]Puppy Help 101 - an interactive tutorial for Lupu 5.25[/color][/url]
Original post says:
I want to be prepared for computer failures (calamities).
I want to avoid spending a lot of time or money on recovery. MAIN POINT
I intent to use Puppy as rescue-pgm. Puppy gives me access to all my HD (Windows, Ubuntu) with no fuss.
---
Arthur
Personally I like to keep my data (documents, photos etc) backed up - onto flash drives and external hard drives. I also keep data in a separate partition from the operating system to make this easier.
hermanaa:
Arthur, you hit the 2 main points, in my opinion:
1. Prevention 2. Keep backup in mind when organizing data-storage.
... and some more good points:
-Puppy is easily backed up by copying the pup save file onto an external drive or another partition. Also Puppy is quick to reinstall should you wish/ need to.
---
Lobster
Official Crustacean
Quote:
backed up - onto flash drives and external hard drives
good advice
If your data is valuable then you are right to plan now
---
Bruce B
Hermanaa,
Each data rescue operation is it's own unique procedure. Maybe deleted files, a partition, broken read heads, any number of things.
hermanaa: we can shortcut all this (and save time as well as data) by following the good advice in the above posts/quoted.
Puppy is not a rescue disk.
Use the right tools for the job.
hermanaa: Puppy is very practical for 'my rescue', considering:
When my OS fails to startup, and I have no real rescue skills (as is the case), I start Puppy (original CD + USB-flashdrive). It gives me direct access to any harddisk. I can save precious files before I decide to do something more drastic.
Remember this is planning-stage ..... The 'What if?' stage.
Puppy can do what no major distribution does: run with no fuss, no learning curve.
It provides direct access to any disk without having to learn the details of 'mount'. Without admin passwords, without anything.
Puppy just does what needs to be done for 'my rescue'..
---
Yogi
It wasn't a total loss cause I learned a good lesson: BACK IT UP!!
hermanaa:
I'll do that. But 'perfect backing-up' does not exist. 'First Aid' Puppy might come in handy to fill the gap.
---
Flash
Official Dog Handler
I've stopped using hard disk drives inside my computer. They are too unreliable to use for anything except a temporary expedient such as swap memory.
I mount the thumb drive when I need to save something that doesn't have anything to do with Puppy. When the thumb drive gets full I plan to move stuff from it to DVDs.
hermanaa: Agree ! (you are thinking ahead!). I'm going to do the same.
---
I had to do this Reply job twice! (grrrr!). (the forum-server made my entire post disappear after using 'Preview'. I did not take chances in the second try, I used my editor.
Excuse the different format.
I want to be prepared for computer failures (calamities).
I want to avoid spending a lot of time or money on recovery. MAIN POINT
I intent to use Puppy as rescue-pgm. Puppy gives me access to all my HD (Windows, Ubuntu) with no fuss.
---
Arthur
Personally I like to keep my data (documents, photos etc) backed up - onto flash drives and external hard drives. I also keep data in a separate partition from the operating system to make this easier.
hermanaa:
Arthur, you hit the 2 main points, in my opinion:
1. Prevention 2. Keep backup in mind when organizing data-storage.
... and some more good points:
-Puppy is easily backed up by copying the pup save file onto an external drive or another partition. Also Puppy is quick to reinstall should you wish/ need to.
---
Lobster
Official Crustacean
Quote:
backed up - onto flash drives and external hard drives
good advice
If your data is valuable then you are right to plan now
---
Bruce B
Hermanaa,
Each data rescue operation is it's own unique procedure. Maybe deleted files, a partition, broken read heads, any number of things.
hermanaa: we can shortcut all this (and save time as well as data) by following the good advice in the above posts/quoted.
Puppy is not a rescue disk.
Use the right tools for the job.
hermanaa: Puppy is very practical for 'my rescue', considering:
When my OS fails to startup, and I have no real rescue skills (as is the case), I start Puppy (original CD + USB-flashdrive). It gives me direct access to any harddisk. I can save precious files before I decide to do something more drastic.
Remember this is planning-stage ..... The 'What if?' stage.
Puppy can do what no major distribution does: run with no fuss, no learning curve.
It provides direct access to any disk without having to learn the details of 'mount'. Without admin passwords, without anything.
Puppy just does what needs to be done for 'my rescue'..
---
Yogi
It wasn't a total loss cause I learned a good lesson: BACK IT UP!!
hermanaa:
I'll do that. But 'perfect backing-up' does not exist. 'First Aid' Puppy might come in handy to fill the gap.
---
Flash
Official Dog Handler
I've stopped using hard disk drives inside my computer. They are too unreliable to use for anything except a temporary expedient such as swap memory.
I mount the thumb drive when I need to save something that doesn't have anything to do with Puppy. When the thumb drive gets full I plan to move stuff from it to DVDs.
hermanaa: Agree ! (you are thinking ahead!). I'm going to do the same.
---
I had to do this Reply job twice! (grrrr!). (the forum-server made my entire post disappear after using 'Preview'. I did not take chances in the second try, I used my editor.
Excuse the different format.
---
Herman in Cebu, PHL.
Herman in Cebu, PHL.
First, and most important, is BACKUP. Backup at least what is important.
Related, make sure your backups WORK. So do a test restore.
RAID is a great way to slash the risk of hard drive failure (except raid 0 which doubles it!). However, it's no protection from user or software error so it's no substitute for backups.
Secondly, when something goes wrong, think about what it is.
If your system boots, but then goes wrong, ask in support forums.
If it won't boot, firstly try the install disc - it may have an option to repair things.
If you went and forgot your password, this is easy enough to reset from live cds.
If you have actual disc failure (the disc may make horrible noises) you need to be careful. Everything you do will cause more damage. Turn off your computer at once! If you don't have another machine you can use, carefully disconnect the hard drive cables before booting from a livecd and researching your course of action.
There is a program called ddrescue, which is designed for copying data off failing discs. You can then use other programs to recover the data from ddrescue's image. To do this you'll need about twice the amount of new disc space as the failing drive had. Moore's law means you'll probably be buying enough in the replacement drive anyway; if not, try to borrow one.
Also, you have to accept that most rescue tools ARE command line. To be honest I'd say if you can't learn to use the command line you may not be able to learn to do effective disaster recovery. In which case, find a trusted and knowledgeable friend, or if your data is valuable enough (and we're talking hundreds of dollars) contact a specialist data recovery company.
Also, may I point you at systemrescuecd - http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page
It boots to the command line, but you can get a graphical desktop by typing 'wizard' and going through the X config. It has plenty of useful tools for system recovery and a few other things (partimage is good for making a backup before a system upgrade, just in case it all goes horribly wrong).
Related, make sure your backups WORK. So do a test restore.
RAID is a great way to slash the risk of hard drive failure (except raid 0 which doubles it!). However, it's no protection from user or software error so it's no substitute for backups.
Secondly, when something goes wrong, think about what it is.
If your system boots, but then goes wrong, ask in support forums.
If it won't boot, firstly try the install disc - it may have an option to repair things.
If you went and forgot your password, this is easy enough to reset from live cds.
If you have actual disc failure (the disc may make horrible noises) you need to be careful. Everything you do will cause more damage. Turn off your computer at once! If you don't have another machine you can use, carefully disconnect the hard drive cables before booting from a livecd and researching your course of action.
There is a program called ddrescue, which is designed for copying data off failing discs. You can then use other programs to recover the data from ddrescue's image. To do this you'll need about twice the amount of new disc space as the failing drive had. Moore's law means you'll probably be buying enough in the replacement drive anyway; if not, try to borrow one.
Also, you have to accept that most rescue tools ARE command line. To be honest I'd say if you can't learn to use the command line you may not be able to learn to do effective disaster recovery. In which case, find a trusted and knowledgeable friend, or if your data is valuable enough (and we're talking hundreds of dollars) contact a specialist data recovery company.
Also, may I point you at systemrescuecd - http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page
It boots to the command line, but you can get a graphical desktop by typing 'wizard' and going through the X config. It has plenty of useful tools for system recovery and a few other things (partimage is good for making a backup before a system upgrade, just in case it all goes horribly wrong).
-
rakograham
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Mon 17 Nov 2008, 11:24
TestDisk is a powerful free data recovery software! It was primarily designed to help recover lost partitions and/or make non-booting disks bootable again when these symptoms are caused by faulty software, certain types of viruses or human error (such as accidentally deleting a Partition Table). Partition table recovery using TestDisk is really easy.
http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk
http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk
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Béèm
- Posts: 11763
- Joined: Wed 22 Nov 2006, 00:47
- Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win
If you want to do it a very good way, use RAID
RAID1 mirroring
RAID3 with a dedicated parity HDD.
But there is a cost
RAID1 mirroring
RAID3 with a dedicated parity HDD.
But there is a cost
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
[url=http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage]Consult Wikka[/url]
Use peppyy's [url=http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html]puppysearch[/url]
One thing sometimes overlooked:
Whatever happens, make sure you can at least access the internet (browser + email). That's the ideal place to find help when you need it most.
For this purpose, Puppy on live-CD is an excellent fall-back. Find out how to get to the internet when booting off live-CD with pfix=ram option (i.e. not using anything that may be on the hdd), write down the procedure carefully, and repeat a few times to make sure it works reliably. Keep a couple of Puppy live-CDs in a safe place, and check CDs + procedure again every couple of months.
Whatever happens, make sure you can at least access the internet (browser + email). That's the ideal place to find help when you need it most.
For this purpose, Puppy on live-CD is an excellent fall-back. Find out how to get to the internet when booting off live-CD with pfix=ram option (i.e. not using anything that may be on the hdd), write down the procedure carefully, and repeat a few times to make sure it works reliably. Keep a couple of Puppy live-CDs in a safe place, and check CDs + procedure again every couple of months.
[size=84][i]If it ain't broke, don't fix it.[/i] --- erikson
hp/compaq nx9030 (1.6GHz/480MB/37.2GB), ADSL, Linksys wireless router
[url]http://www.desonville.net/[/url]
Puppy page: [url]http://www.desonville.net/en/joere.puppy.htm[/url][/size]
hp/compaq nx9030 (1.6GHz/480MB/37.2GB), ADSL, Linksys wireless router
[url]http://www.desonville.net/[/url]
Puppy page: [url]http://www.desonville.net/en/joere.puppy.htm[/url][/size]
erikson
> One thing sometimes overlooked:
> Whatever happens, make sure you can at least access the internet (browser + email). That's the ideal place to find help when you need it most.
... will need a rescue COMPUTER to make that a sure thing !
> For this purpose, Puppy on live-CD is an excellent fall-back. Find out how to get to the internet when booting off live-CD with pfix=ram option (i.e. not using anything that may be on the hdd),
.... Yes, I considerPuppy my main rescue-route as well.
... but I will buy a bigger USB-flash-drive, I want to be able to save my data. (as well as in rescue case, save my recovered data).
I am practicing right now, how I can get Puppy to write all the data-files to the USB-flash-drive (like from editor and surf program).
> write down the procedure carefully, and repeat a few times to make sure it works reliably. Keep a couple of Puppy live-CDs in a safe place, and check CDs + procedure again every couple of months.
Right way to do it!
In the same effort I prepare for making a DEMO Puppy.
(to show Puppy to friends on their computer)
- Initially CD + USB-Flash-drive.
- after that, boot from USB.
Learning as I go.
Puppy sure makes it fun.
> One thing sometimes overlooked:
> Whatever happens, make sure you can at least access the internet (browser + email). That's the ideal place to find help when you need it most.
... will need a rescue COMPUTER to make that a sure thing !
> For this purpose, Puppy on live-CD is an excellent fall-back. Find out how to get to the internet when booting off live-CD with pfix=ram option (i.e. not using anything that may be on the hdd),
.... Yes, I considerPuppy my main rescue-route as well.
... but I will buy a bigger USB-flash-drive, I want to be able to save my data. (as well as in rescue case, save my recovered data).
I am practicing right now, how I can get Puppy to write all the data-files to the USB-flash-drive (like from editor and surf program).
> write down the procedure carefully, and repeat a few times to make sure it works reliably. Keep a couple of Puppy live-CDs in a safe place, and check CDs + procedure again every couple of months.
Right way to do it!
In the same effort I prepare for making a DEMO Puppy.
(to show Puppy to friends on their computer)
- Initially CD + USB-Flash-drive.
- after that, boot from USB.
Learning as I go.
Puppy sure makes it fun.
---
Herman in Cebu, PHL.
Herman in Cebu, PHL.
With many laptops, the cost of impossibilityBéèm wrote:If you want to do it a very good way, use RAID
RAID1 mirroring
RAID3 with a dedicated parity HDD.
But there is a cost
Well OK, you COULD use Linux software RAID to mirror the internal drive to an external USB one. But I wouldn't, performance would go down the drain, especially with old laptops like mine that don't support USB2.
You must have been unlucky. Of eight hard drives I have owned, the only one that failed was the one in my old mp3 player (it was a walkman-sized brick that used a laptop drive). Three are not being used anymore (I have larger ones) but still work. That leaves 3 still running quite happily, though none are particularly old.I've stopped using hard disk drives inside my computer. They are too unreliable to use for anything except a temporary expedient such as swap memory.
hard drive faliure
I read in a tech news article (Znet) that there are two types of companies - those who have experienced data loss and those who are about to. I work with the idea that no man made item is 100 percent reliable. Having seen many broken computers over the last year or so I have personally experienced two hard drives fail whilst I was using them. One in a desktop machine (which was approximately 10 years old) and one which was in use as an external hard drive. To put this in perspective I have perhaps used 250-300 different computers during this time. A faliure rate which is higher than I am comfortable with but overall I have managed to move a lot of data around using hard drives and have watched them in daily use without any problems. It's just that the possibility is always there that your precious information will turn to random characters while the drive makes odd clunking and clicking sounds.....I always keep several backups or everything!