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bugman · #241 Post by **bugman** » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 15:39

the matrix is an overrated bore . . .

[one man's opinion]

canbyte · #242 Post by **canbyte** » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 20:24

Bugman said

i went through all the conspiracy crap 20 years ago

So did I. I used to play soccer with a bunch of college "commies" who fed me all sorts of weird things. Felt the same way as you did until two things happened.

1. Read an article about 3-5 yrs ago in Atlantic Monthly based on declassified info that outlined that all the crap i had rejected years before was basically correct. Atlantic Monthly is not your average tabloid and is about as far from conspiracy crap as you can get.

2. GWB. What can i say. The current debate is whether he did what he did because he was totally stupid, totally diabolical or totally duped by diabolical henchmen.

The problem with Americans is they are totally locked into their bifurcated distortions of reality. You need a few more political parties to mellow y'all out.

Now Bugman, don't get too mellow! Citizens always need to stand vigilant or history will repeat - the collapse of the "Roman republic" looks to be too near for comfort.

PaulBx1 · #243 Post by **PaulBx1** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 03:31

there's this funny idea that regular people are so GOOD, and politicians are so BAD

I haven't heard that one much. The one I've heard a lot more is that regular people are BAD, and politicians are WORSE.

And I think that is pretty close to the truth. Also, bad people generally aren't that much of a problem, because they can usually be avoided by some means or other (saying "GO AWAY" sometimes helps). For some reason, "GO AWAY" does not work well with politicians, tax collectors, cops or other government types.

i am an anarchist, i believe in no governments at all

Ah, we are soulmates, Bugman!

Except when I say I believe in no governments, I don't then contradict myself by saying people need to be controlled, or that it would be a disaster if they weren't.

Again, there is no need to argue about this. I'd just like to see one place on earth without a government. Let anarchism really be tried. Then if it doesn't work, you can say "I told you so; only Bugman is capable of being without government." I'm ready for the experiment to begin. Only, the ruling class is not interested for some reason.

hogar · #244 Post by **hogar** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 08:30

Maybe look at this: http://p2pfoundation.net/Marinaleda

bugman · #245 Post by **bugman** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 09:59

PaulBx1 wrote:Except when I say I believe in no governments, I don't then contradict myself by saying people need to be controlled, or that it would be a disaster if they weren't.

i'm not contradicting myself, merely recognizing the difference between idealism and pragmatism

what libertarians like to call anarchism is nothing more than opportunism unbound

the people i see around me NEED rules like they need food

i pretty much live by my own rules, but i fly very low . . .

bugman · #246 Post by **bugman** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 10:04

hogar wrote:Maybe look at this: http://p2pfoundation.net/Marinaleda

buncha damn commies!

thanks for this link, there IS hope for the world, or at least for one small town in spain . . .

muggins · #247 Post by **muggins** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 10:13

Somebody once told me there are 4 types of people in the world:

First type like telling people what to do. They're not the biggest problem though.

Second type are a bigger problem...they like being told what to do.

Third type aren't any problem...don't like being told what to do, or telling others what to do.

Last type are the biggest problem. They like being told what to do...& who to do it to.

Oversimplification, but I still like it.

bugman · #248 Post by **bugman** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 11:49

muggins wrote:First type like telling people what to do. They're not the biggest problem though.

Second type are a bigger problem...they like being told what to do.

this is symbiosis, neither is worse than the other

muggins wrote:Last type are the biggest problem. They like being told what to do...& who to do it to.

rush limbaugh's audience . . .

hillside · #249 Post by **hillside** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 15:44

So, are you one of those Max Stirner type anarchists? The kind who believe it's ok to enslave your neighbor as long as it's in your interest and you have the power to force your will upon them?

PaulBx1 · #250 Post by **PaulBx1** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 16:26

I don't mind Marinaleda, even though it looks absurd to me, to mix freedom with communism. Every community should have its own experiment going on how people live together. People can gravitate to the ones they like.

what libertarians like to call anarchism is nothing more than opportunism unbound

Can't have anything like unbounded opportunity, can we?

rush limbaugh's audience . . .

Thank heaven none of them are in power these days. Now we can be free, right?

I like Robert Heinlein's formulation:
Political tags -- such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth -- are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.

Aitch · #251 Post by **Aitch** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 17:04

Hey Paul.
Just for you....

"Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will."

~ Frederick Douglass

Source: http://www.strike-the-root.com/

What's going on?

http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking ... 86524.html

Militias are cool - right?

Here's why......

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20010.html

I'd sooner have Bugsie as a neighbour, than Obama, that's for sure

Aitch

bugman · #252 Post by **bugman** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 18:28

hillside wrote:So, are you one of those Max Stirner type anarchists? The kind who believe it's ok to enslave your neighbor as long as it's in your interest and you have the power to force your will upon them?

huh? where'd you get that from?

my neighbors try to terrorize me, i try to ignore them

slightly confused, possibly irony in a response has misled you as to my will or lack thereof . . .

bugman · #253 Post by **bugman** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 18:31

Aitch wrote: I'd sooner have Bugsie as a neighbour, than Obama, that's for sure

i'm very quiet, and if you're nice, i'll invite you over for vegetarian curry and tea

hillside · #254 Post by **hillside** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 20:06

huh? where'd you get that from?

Sorry. I didn't mean to sound accusatory. I was just asking since
that's the only kind of anarchists I've ever met. They were scary.

You don't seem too scary, so I guess I already knew the answer to
my question.

Aitch · #255 Post by **Aitch** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 20:10

Smashing!

Could we have Chai instead of Tea?

I'm nice - honest... [mmmm, Veg Curry's my favourite nosh, too

]

Aitch

bugman · #256 Post by **bugman** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 20:45

hillside wrote:Sorry. I didn't mean to sound accusatory. I was just asking since that's the only kind of anarchists I've ever met. They were scary.

You don't seem too scary, so I guess I already knew the answer to
my question.

i like kropotkin, but am not much on theory and such, i just think people should be nice to one another

since i am often incapable of this myself, i am not too hopeful, especially when the norm seems to be saying 'who cares?'

bugman · #257 Post by **bugman** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 20:52

Aitch wrote:Smashing!

Could we have Chai instead of Tea?

I'm nice - honest... [mmmm, Veg Curry's my favourite nosh, too ]

Aitch

chai is cool, i think, isn't it just tea brewed with a masala? cinnamon, black pepper, maybe some coriander, dried mango, ginger?

not sure, i should use the google some day

today's curry is potato and chickpea, with mustard seeds, cumin, coriander, black pepper, pequin chiles, turmeric--simple, tasty , medium heat

tomorrow? i just got some dumpster-dived cauliflower that needs to be eaten soon--i don't usually have cauliflower, need to think about a suitable blend . . .

Aitch · #258 Post by **Aitch** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 22:20

mmmm

Anyone made a .pet for transferring veg curry over the interweb?

I'm still over in Germany, so won't be able to make lunch, but nice offer

Depends on your dumpsters over where you are, but whenever I used to find Caulis, I would automatically think cheese and peanut butter, sprinkled with cayenne pepper and luxury would be a jar of Jalapenos, followed by a bar of Green & Blacks dark chocolate melted onto a few doughnuts
They started putting locks and cameras over here:-
They must have seen some fat dumpster-divers

Aitch

bugman · #259 Post by **bugman** » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 22:53

Aitch wrote:Depends on your dumpsters over where you are

despite amerika's reputation for wastefulness, this is a relatively poor region, and the grocery stores will do anything to avoid throwing anything out

produce used to go into a bargain bin, but for whatever reason people can't handle beat-up fruit and veg, so they started dumping it

they never throw out cans or dry products, i get that stuff occasionally at half price or so, if along my limited lines of taste [mexican, south and east asian]

old dairy still goes into a bargain bin, a somewhat dicier proposition, imho . . .

[meat does not readily go to waste in montana]

37fleetwood · #260 Post by **37fleetwood** » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 06:00

just noticing.

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