Congrats, USA!

[bugman]

I declare Racism is a dead horse. lets see how much longer they flog it.

funny, it's always white people saying that . . .

[37fleetwood]

I declare Racism is a dead horse. lets see how much longer they flog it.

funny, it's always white people saying that . . .

exactly my point. most instances of racism would go away if people would let it. take for example the Chinese. they were held as property in this country and strictly segregated. is that the case today? why not? they let it go and moved on. you find me one person in this country who has been held as a slave by me, and I'll see your point. you act as though I don't get to have an opinion just because I'm white. white or black doesn't have anything to do with it. if a person wants to think racism is everywhere and qualifies it by saying it's so because I'm black and you're wrong because you're not, isn't that racism in and of itself? you seem to equate white with racism, they're not the same thing at all. I point out that we need to be color blind in our society, and you seem to want to try to paint me as a racist. the Emancipation Proclamation was signed almost 147 years ago! let it go! the only way it is ever going to go away is to let it drop! why must I be punished for being white? for being male? for being Christian? I've never tried to opress anyone, I believe in womens rights, racism? I don't even believe in the term! remember, I believe 8 people walked out of an ark around 6000 years ago! we're all related! racism is something invented by Darwin and evolutionists!

I'm noticing something else bugman, you're name isn't a noun, it's a verb! you intentionally try to stir up stuff!
bug (verb): To trouble the nerves or peace of mind of, especially by repeated vexations: aggravate, annoy, bother, chafe, disturb, exasperate, fret, gall, get, irk, irritate, nettle, peeve, provoke, put out, rile, ruffle, vex. Idioms: get in one's hair, get on one's nerves, get under one's skin. See feelings, pain/pleasure.

[bugman]

you seem to equate white with racism, they're not the same thing at all. I point out that we need to be color blind in our society, and you seem to want to try to paint me as a racist. the Emancipation Proclamation was signed almost 147 years ago! let it go! the only way it is ever going to go away is to let it drop!

i did not call you a racist, but i will call you naive for thinking racism has gone away in america

btw, racism does not apply only to african-americans

[puppyluvr]

Hello,
Racism...hmmm..that word sure gets thrown around a lot.. Generally, it is mis used to refer to bigotry...
To me, racism is simply the acknowledgement that there are different races..
That Black people are different than White people are different than Asian people...Why cant we let people have their culture???? Why does society want to blend us all together, removing the differences that make each race unique?? I welcome a world where Black people can be Black, White people can be White, ect....without anyone getting offended...
My best friend is Black...He`s not "African American"...Just an "American" He`s Black...He doesnt speak Swahili, couldnt find Africa on a map, and doesnt think loonies like Al Sharpton speak for him...He doesnt blame "The Man" or the fact that his Grandparents were probably someones property, for all his problems in life..Hes just a regular guy, who is Black...
"African American" is a stupid generic term.. "African" is not a culture, its a continent.. Right from the start it is insulting..Dark skin does not automatically mean "African".. Conglomerating an entire continent into one "race" ignores any individual culture people may have developed...The "Black American" culture developed here, not in Africa..

I guess my point is that the differences between "races" of people should be celebrated, explored, and enjoyed...Not ignored and denied. Each has something good to offer that is being lost in the "melting pot"...Shame...

So many wonderful cultural things are being lost, so much history, in the attempt to make us "All the same"...We are not all the same..
Diluting entire Continents of people into one "race" is ridicules...
Ive never seem the term African-German but I`m pretty sure there are black people in Germany..I dont go around calling myself an "English-American", although my family came from England in 1542, as "Indentured Servants" BTW....
The incessant need to label entire groups of people as one has diluted the cultural significance of untold numbers of people...
All White people are not the same, nor are all Black, Hispanic, or Asian people the same.. If you must group, do it by Culture...
Even here in the US, there is a multitude of cultures, based on geography, not skin tone...These too, are being lost....

So here is my "Racist" statement of the day:
Americans are like the Borg...
They are very adept at persecuting, enslaving, and destroying other cultures, assimilating the parts they like, and destroying the rest..
They are a menace..LOL...

See, in my world...
Its OK to be different....
Thats why I am a "Racist"...

[bugman]

My best friend is Black...He`s not "African American"...Just an "American" He`s Black...He doesnt speak Swahili, couldnt find Africa on a map . . . "African American" is a stupid generic term.. "African" is not a culture, its a continent.

well, yeah, that's the point, no black americans really can know their culture, and how could they [apart from alex haley, i suppose]

[might i be mandinka-american, or ashanti-american, or ibo-american, or yoruba-american? where exactly did those slavers steal me from?]

your referencing swahili is funny--swahili is an east african language, not likely to have been spoken by those we were stealing from villages in the west

i'm thinking of going to a sons of norway meeting and demanding that they are either racists for being interested in their norwegian culture, or un-american--maybe they should all go back to norway

next--i go after the local ukranian germans! [i'll leave the indians alone, though]

[Aitch]

I'm "in the human" race.....

On your marks, get set....GO!



The rest is dead donkey sh*t

Aitch

[puppyluvr]

Hello,

by those we were stealing from villages in the west

Please...by those we were BUYING from villages in the west ..
It was a routine part of many African cultures that the outcome of a lost battle was enslavement...Most were then sold (as property) to the Slave Traders..
The picture of the White Slaver running around the country with nets is silly..

[bugman]

Hello,

by those we were stealing from villages in the west

Please...by those we were BUYING from villages in the west ..

buying stolen 'property' is the same as stealing it, right? and does a man not own himself, so how can one buy him against his will?

additionally--read up on the african concept of slavery, how slaves were treated there [and in western asia, which was also a destination for african slaves], compare it to what slavery meant in the caribbean and the u$, then tell me what you think

[bugman]

I'm "in the human" race.....

die, you speciesist pig!

[Aitch]

die, you speciesist pig!

Gee, thanks Bugsie

& there was me trying to inject some light relief

I die for that, in comparison to slavers???



Funny how certain threads get commandeered by the dark side, ain't it?

Be gone, & leave us be, ye varmit!

For if I die, I'll never talk to you again !!

Aitch

[PaulBx1]

they definitely DON'T guarantee any sort of safety or security, as many will testify

Ah, now I understand your point, and I agree with it. There are no guarantees. However I will not discard a tool because it does not deliver 100%!

Do you force it on people...... or persuade them it is for their own well-being, by example?

Well, being somewhere between "libertarian" and "anarcho-capitalist", I don't force anything on anybody. People can do what they want with their lives. People of my persuasion are however (unlike complete pacifists) able to retaliate when they are harmed. Persuasion is not force, as the "persuadee" can always ignore it. BTW normally I wouldn't even bother to persuade anybody about this firearms subject, but whenever the ruling class and the "ministry of propaganda" (mainstream media) beats the drum for firearms prohibition, as they are doing right now, it gets me into an evangelical mood to counter what they are saying.

Name one example of a person renowned in history for his/her deeds for humanity, who used a gun to do it

George Washington? Lord Nelson?

If you think the founding of this country was by and large a good thing (which I do, despite its going bad lately), well every American fighter in the militia and the American army and navy (such as it was) was doing a good deed for humanity with his gun. The founding of America originally promoted freedom, one of the most precious ideas out there for human beings.

Now, compare with one who did it without.........

It's a tool, usable for good or ill.

Things changed drastically after Lincoln was killed.

Huh? Lincoln was killed in 1865. Trust me, the "wild west" went on quite a bit after that. Anyway, much of our view of the period depends on Hollywood creativity, and we all know those folks are pretty creative. There have been studies of the period (see this page and search for the word "Aurora"), and it turns out people were safer then than they are now in today's big cities, despite everyone then being armed (which corresponds with what we see today - armed Wyomingites are safer than disarmed New Yorkers). Make that, because, not despite, everyone then being armed.

BTW, the 14th Amendment was never properly ratified. The only reason it is adhered to today is because it handed state power to the federal government.

when i mentioned that, according to you, wyoming ranchers are apparently shooting at everything that moves, i got a sort of disgusted grin and a 'well, that figures, wyoming'

Well, I come from a dairy farmer background (grandpa and grandma) and all those folks killed deer. But your other assertion may be correct - that farmers and ranchers don't have much time for it (although generally, hunting season is outside their busy time). And, if their freezer is already full of beef, from some cull cow they butchered, maybe there is little need to go out after deer.

truly if you don't want to be here why stay?

Actually, there is already plenty of diversity in this country. It's easy to go somewhere that better suits a person without having to get out of the country. I'm a great believer in "voting with one's feet". People should live where they fit in, not try to fight the predominant local culture (except when that culture - meaning people claiming to represent it - are actively harming them). I don't think the US should be homogenized.

I declare Racism is a dead horse. lets see how much longer they flog it.

funny, it's always white people saying that

Lots of people say that, of all colors (e.g. Thomas Sowell, Will Grigg, Walter Williams). Racism would fade away if government weren't so busy propping it up. Ye olde "divide and conquer" tactic, just like religious strife...

[37fleetwood]

Hello,

by those we were stealing from villages in the west

Please...by those we were BUYING from villages in the west ..

buying stolen 'property' is the same as stealing it, right? and does a man not own himself, so how can one buy him against his will?

additionally--read up on the african concept of slavery, how slaves were treated there [and in western asia, which was also a destination for african slaves], compare it to what slavery meant in the caribbean and the u$, then tell me what you think

neat how you stepped right past the fact that it was Africans selling Africans. eventually it wasn't about rival tribes and you can't really claim they were ignorant of what was going on without making these entrepreneurial businessmen out to be stupid savages.
also racism isn't the celebration of different races, it's the preferrement of one race over another with the intent to denegrade the other race.
I too have black friends but I can't say that can I without someone saying, Oh I knew it was just a matter of time before he claimed all the black people he knows.
one of my best friends who is black voted for Obama and said he was going to vote for him again. when I asked what if he turns out to be a terrible president? he answered he was still going to vote for him! now that's racism!!

[puppyluvr]

Hello,
I was just trying to put a different spin on the term "Racist", to segregate it, pun intended, from Bigotry, which is the belief that one race, (eg mine) is better than another, (eg everyone else, especially the (place favorite slanderous crap here))

Racism, correctly viewed, is the belief that races are different, and should not intermingle, which could be taken culturally, as preservational...
The belief that actual physical mixing is detrimental is Eugenics, a whole `nother line of crap indeed...

I was just trying to redefine "Racist".......

[Aitch]

Jay

Here's someone else who tried.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs ... re=related

Aitch

[PowerPup]

Well, trying to stay a little more on topic of what the topic starter said, (Not saying other people are off topic.) I'm going to share how I feel about all this.

To me it wasn't going to make too much of a difference who won the 2008 election, because whether a Democrat or Republican president, the people in power behind the political parties are going to push towards one world governance. And unfortunately our current president won't listen to us if those powers over him tell him to do so. Take the The Life Envelope Project, something I personally participated in. While the White House has confirmed over 2 million letters have been received. President Obama has made no response so far. And the main stream media doesn't seem to want to report on it.

Another concern for me is bill H.R. 1388, the Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act or GIVE Act.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xp ... ab=summary

Section 1304 -
Prohibits AmeriCorps participants from engaging in specified political, business, union, and religious activities or displacing employed workers or other volunteers.
Prohibits labor, for-profit, abortion advocacy, and certain political organizations from receiving AmeriCorps funding. Bars the participation of organizations that have been indicted for voter fraud.

If this bill passes and I (being in the age of 18-25) am called to "participate" through this bill, I would be prohibited to go to church or possibly reading my own Bible while "participating."
But wait, it also says "specified political activities." Meaning you wouldn't be even allowed to speak your own political opinion, and even more likely if it is opposite of AmeriCorps' opinion.

This is what I posted on another forum on a similar topic:

Have what changed? Have the last 50 years of change not been enough for our nation? When we had the major education reform of Darwinism, we lost our sense of who holds us accountable. If there is no God who made us and holds us accountable for wrong doing, then you can do anything you want and get away with it. Why are people doing things that are morally wrong and say they have the right to do it? One reason is because without God there is no Standard of what is right and wrong. Take abortion for example, I would be dead if I was aborted. I would have never been a part of this forum or anything else in my life cause my life would have never existed. Nor do any of the abortion clinics talk about the huge effect it has on the would-have-been mothers physically and mentally. Or like, though it's a subject I don't like talking about, people being gay. Now there's a euphemistic word. It originally meant being jolly or merry. It is stupid and just totally wrong. I can easily prove this by asking one question. Do animals do it? After all Evolution just call us monkeys with a higher I.Q. And it does no profit in the biological sense. Why are murders and crime up? Because the only people to hold them accountable is people like themselves. Evolution call us animals, don't lions, bears, birds, cats, and ants kill and take? Nobody executes them for killing. I am not giving a justification for killing or stealing. I am showing that without accountability for sin then there is no real definition of sin. And then people start saying "Well, that maybe true for you, but I have my own truths. You have yours, and I have mine."

The true change that is needed in America is a full turnabout. And to go back to the original documents that our 150 founding fathers (ALL THE PEOPLE who framed, voted and signed our Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and our Constitution. As well as other founding documents.) left for us in plan English to understand so that everyone may know what their dreams for America were.

Declaration of Independence.
Bill of Rights.
Constitution for the United States of America.
Washington's Inaugural Address.
Jefferson's "Wall of Separation" Letter (and it's true meaning.)

What about the Mayflower? The reason why they Left England to come to America?
The Mayflower Compact.

While it may be true that we haven't seen it like this since The Great Depression. It is NOWHERE NEAR as bad.

Please don't take any of this personally. I want to say what I feel is important to share.

[Pizzasgood]

No you wouldn't. Read the actual text, not the summary. Here is the relevant portion:

‘SEC. 132A. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGANIZATIONS.

‘(a) Prohibited Activities- An approved national service position under this subtitle may not be used for the following activities:

‘(1) Attempting to influence legislation.

‘(2) Organizing or engaging in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes.

‘(3) Assisting, promoting, or deterring union organizing.

‘(4) Impairing existing contracts for services or collective bargaining agreements.

‘(5) Engaging in partisan political activities, or other activities designed to influence the outcome of an election to Federal office or the outcome of an election to a State or local public office.

‘(6) Participating in, or endorsing, events or activities that are likely to include advocacy for or against political parties, political platforms, political candidates, proposed legislation, or elected officials.

‘(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of proselytization, consistent with section 132.

‘(8) Consistent with section 132, providing a direct benefit to any--

‘(A) business organized for profit;

‘(B) labor union;

‘(C) partisan political organization;

‘(D) nonprofit organization that fails to comply with the restrictions contained in section 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, except that nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to prevent participants from engaging in advocacy activities undertaken at their own initiative; and

‘(E) organization engaged in the religious activities described in paragraph (7), unless the position is not used to support those religious activities.

‘(9) Providing abortion services or referrals for receipt of such services.

‘(10) Conducting a voter registration drive or using Corporation funds to conduct a voter registration drive.

‘(11) Carrying out such other activities as the Corporation may prohibit.

‘(b) Ineligibility- No assistance provided under this subtitle may be provided to any organization that has violated a Federal criminal statute.

‘(c) Nondisplacement of Employed Workers or Other Volunteers- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not be directed to perform any services or duties, or to engage in any activities, prohibited under the nonduplication, nondisplacement, or nonsupplantation requirements relating to employees and volunteers in section 177.’.

The key part is this:

‘(a) Prohibited Activities- An approved national service position under this subtitle may not be used for the following activities:

So long as you aren't using the service position to do those things, you are fine. In other words, go to church on your own time, and don't wear the "uniform" of the service position. Ensure that it is clear you are acting as your own person in those regards, not as a representative of the organization.


EDIT: I meant to say "So long as...." not "So as....". Corrected.

[Pizzasgood]

Yes, there is still plenty of *ism today. I suffer it myself. I am not "allowed" to be happy with who I am because of it. I'm a white male. If I'm glad I'm a guy, I'm sexist. If I'm happy being white, or prefer white women (aesthetically), then I'm racist. (Am I also sexist for liking women?)

There are scholarships only aimed at black people, at women, at Asians, at "Native" Americans, at people visiting from foreign countries, etc. Are there any that are only aimed at white men? Maybe I could ask the KKK for assistance? No, that would probably be a bad idea...

There are a good number of scholarships aimed at everybody (as they should be), and for my first year of college I used those and managed to get a full ride for that year. And I really appreciate what they did for me. But since that first year, I haven't bothered with anything but the federal and state aid. I prefer supplying the rest through my own two hands.

People should be able to be who and what they want, without anybody giving a flip. When I ask that people ignore race, I only mean so far as making decisions based on it, which is idiotic.

People should definitely remember where they came from.

Nothing like listening to a good bagpipe in the morning.

[37fleetwood]

(Am I also sexist for liking women?)

clearly you're a gay bashing homophobe with racist and misogynistic tendancies.

[bugman]

judging from some of the more 'interesting' signs at the so-called 'tea party' a couple of days ago, i would have to say that while racism may [or may not] be dead, racists are as alive as ever

[bill]

Come on Mr. Bugman,Don't keep us in suspense with nebulus ,open ended statements,Please speak up and tell us your basis and reasons for your opinions.cheers