M$ Mind-control

[WireWulf]

Anyone noticed windows is saying it is completely GUI is this even possible? NO by current computing standards it is not there has to be a back end text to do anything SO why lie? i don't understand why people buy into that lie just because it is closed off doesn't mean it is not there....it would be a sad day if a Unix based os or kernel what ever you wanna say did that i think i'd smash my computer and cry if any linux or BSD i use did that.

also i work with a guy who has no clue that there is other OSs then Windows out there...no matter how much i want to call him a idiot i don't.

all of this is proof that M$ is controlling peoples minds
SADDLY

[d4p]

M$ is controlling ....
http://www.h-online.com/security/news/i ... html%22%22

[pc Retro<3]

Anyone noticed windows is saying it is completely GUI is this even possible? NO by current computing standards it is not there has to be a back end text to do anything SO why lie?

what are you on about win7 is GUI nothing else.sometime i think you are a total idiot WireWulf

[WireWulf]

what are you on about win7 is GUI nothing else.

current rule of computing do apply sadly that mean a computer still needs text commands to work i dare you to try other wise[/code]

[sketchman]

I like how the new commercials point out all the obvious deficiencies and act like they were just recently thought up and fixed with this prompt and timely new OS.

The business model is interestingly stupid really. It's like.

1. Release trash, and people WILL buy it cause we'll make it sound awesome.
2. Acknowledge that we released trash so the sheep, uhh customers get validation.
3. Release slightly better trash and people WILL buy it again because previous trash is just a bit too trashy to be taken seriously.
4. Sheep, uhh well yeah sheep, tolerate new trash and we make twice the money. Rejoice!
5. Repeat, repeat, repeat, etc.

It's ingenious really. Treat the general populous as idiots, and they play along. Amazing.

[WireWulf]

sketchman i couldnt put it better my-self.
but what is honistly bugging me is most people i know personaly have no clue there are other OSs then Windows or mac(trust me you know a mac user) it is sad

[lwill]

I think it is brain washing instead.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Ad infinitum.

Pay money and install. Update and break. Repeat.

If you live in a world without walls.... What the heck do you need windows for?? DUH!!

My $.02

[pc Retro<3]

you really have no idea do you.M$ is a good OS tottal GUI and you cant srand the fact it is lieveing your linux in thw dust have fun guys with out dated out program software

[ITAmember]

That may be true but it is still bloated and expensive.

[sikpuppy]

you really have no idea do you.M$ is a good OS tottal GUI and you cant srand the fact it is lieveing your linux in thw dust have fun guys with out dated out program software

Jesus, your spelling and grammatical skills are woeful.

[sketchman]

He's standing up for Microsoft. What do you expect?

To said Microsoftie:
The OP is right. Why else would such a stupid business strategy work? If people think that's all there is, what choice do they have?

Look at the facts if you want to be honest about things.
No MS OS installer to date(that I know of) will play nicely with any other non MS OS already installed on the computer.
Why does a standard update that is quite mature totally break the system?
Why did Vista continue to sell in its sad state?(Yes, I know they addressed problems AFTER release. That's what betas are for.)
Why is W7 able to sell now?(Usually, your rep can make or break you. MS seems to defy this rule.)
Why aren't all fertilizer salesmen filthy stinkin' rich?
The ONLY reason MS is still afloat IMO is because of what the OP calls mind control. Clever propaganda, and badly implemented stolen ideas.

As for W7 being a solid OS. Well, I always give the new release a shot. I like to be fair. I gave it a brand new NTFS partition and even started the install INSIDE a fresh WXP environment. What does the setup tell me? ".....unable to find a suitable partition to install Windows." Hmm. So, I guess technically I can't comment since I can't even use it.

[sikpuppy]

. I gave it a brand new NTFS partition and even started the install INSIDE a fresh WXP environment. What does the setup tell me? ".....unable to find a suitable partition to install Windows." Hmm. So, I guess technically I can't comment since I can't even use it.

To be fair Windows 7 should not be installed like this. It should be installed from DVD media with the intention of formatting the partition that it is to reside on. It's not a good idea to install it from within an XP environment.

If it's an upgrade then it should ask for the media which the previous version of Windows was installed from.

[WireWulf]

when i have to i run Window out of a mini-linux in Qemu as for win7 doesnt support my hardware and dont feel like upgrading hardware linux flys on.Maybe i get win8 in 2012 and maybe by then it is cheapper and works right o'wait it is windows it get more unstable every time you run it XD

[thane]

I'm old enough to remember the time before Windows, and in saying the below I'm going off memory and not research.

Windows won the OS battle because (like the legendary Confederate general) it got there firstest with the mostest. At a time when apps were mainly installed separately and were often incompatible, Windows offered a suite of apps running under a common desktop and standard interface. It offered many more apps and could be run on cheaper hardware than its main competitor, Apple Macintosh. This was in spite of the fact that Apple's OS was generally recognized as being better.

Not the best OS imaginable, or even the best available at the time. But firstest with the mostest.

[Aitch]

Wirewulf

Windoze aka microshaft, can only control you if you outsource your thinking!!

....like pc Retro<3, who obviously does...

Enjoy linux and quit comparing chalk & cheese

btw, same goes for MAC/OSX v linux

We're just different, is all....thankfully

Aitch

[mikeb]

Most people like having their minds controlled...it's so much easier.

If you are one of those that don't then it's all so obvious but no one listens.

An analogy is those who like army life and those that don't

mike

[WireWulf]

mike my issue isnt that they use windoze but the fact they dont know that there are other free os out there does.hell i like BSD but love linux.so i get the fact the only way windows can do anything is by lieing and stealing but yeah......i dont care anymore. google is now my target they'll kill M$ then be crapp-ware.

OSs i like:
solaris
Most linux
BSD
Unix

OSs i hate:
M$ windoze
apple mac os and mac osx
Ubuntu(this includes all butntus)
few others but =P

[efiguy]

[quote]you really have no idea do you.M$ is a good OS tottal GUI and you cant srand the fact it is lieveing your linux in thw dust have fun guys with out dated out program software[/quote]

Well it took me purchase of PClite, multiple Nlites and registry cleaners to get a XP that didn't Blue Screen, spontaneously reboot, pass GRC.com with custom Zonealarm or have a rootkit under it.
Hmm, never ever had a problem of freezing, BS or performance with Puppy versions, Heck, even watched NASA TV with Lighthouse Puppy, on a junk K6 IBM, try that one on Vister.
Our It department even calulated the probability that Cosmic rays were causing ram errors that rebooted or froze vindoze -- That didn't seem to be all that true - once a FreeBSD version ran for over 6 months (setting among the NT boxes), never needing a reboot!

Forget the Cloud Hype, just want to have the screens stay in place and not go away, I'm the fed up 'doze user and learning Puppy, But don't forget -- we first get here via Doze, if'n it didn't reboot first
J

[ITAmember]

there has to be a back end text to do anything

Biggest lie I've heard all day. The command line is a front-end, not a back-end. The back-end should be a large collection of shared libraries with an OO framework abstracting it. That is much more efficient and developer friendly then a patchwork of shell scripts like what is used in Linux. This is one area Windows excels in and Linux lags in.

Except for application development, which a lot computer users want nothing to do with, what is one thing that has to be done from the command line? Or even something that is better to do from the command line?

[Pizzasgood]

Except for application development, which a lot computer users want nothing to do with, what is one thing that has to be done from the command line? Or even something that is better to do from the command line?

Using sed to manipulate a file. Sure, you can do it with a gui, but you'd just be typing the regular expressions into a text entry form, so it wouldn't be saving you any work. In fact it would be more hassle. Commandline gives you more power for this too, because you can use it on multiple files at once and you can combine it with the below techniques to do even funkier things.

Another thing that works Very Well in a commandline and would be pretty clutzy in a gui is piping commands together. If you don't see the point in piping commands, it's probably because you have constrained yourself to a GUI for too long and so the concept is foreign. (It took a while before I saw the beauty of pipes too - but now I can't live without them.)
For example, let's say I want to find every line in a file that contains the string 'pizza', case independent, and also the first lines below those lines. But I want to throw out all lines that say 'mushroom', and I want all instances of "black olives" replaced with just "olives". A since there are about 80 lines, I only want to see the first ten.

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grep -i -A 1 'pizza' some_file | grep -v -i 'mushroom' | sed 's/black olives/olives/g' | head

Maybe after looking over those first ten lines I decide I want to save all 80 of them. So I press "up" to reload that command and edit it like so:

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grep -i -A 1 'pizza' some_file | grep -v -i 'mushroom' | sed 's/black olives/olives/gi'> some_new_file

Pipes could be done in gui. Make a long window that you can drag program's icons into and drag them to change the order. But it would be absurdly stupid and painful to work with. And besides which, if you're in pure-gui land, why would the applications even be generating output that you could send through a pipe? People who use GUI only don't even know what I'm talking about because the concept is so out of whack with how GUI things work.


Another thing you can do with the commandline is compose very simple on-the-fly programs to accomplish a task, which could be done with a gui but it would be retarded.

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for i in *.tar.gz; do tar xf "$i"; done

That will extract every .tar.gz file in the directory.

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while [ ! $(sleep 2) ]; do cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THRM/temperature; done

That tells me the temperature of my computer every 2 seconds. You could easily find a gui program like Conky that does this much prettier, but that's not the point. You can use this sort of thing to do a lot of different tasks - checking your wireless strength, beeping, writing to a file, etc., without having to search around for some program that already does what you need. If you make a slight adjustment, you get this:

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while [ 1 ]; do firefox; done

That will run firefox. If the user closes every firefox window, it will automatically launch a new one. Can be used with any program. Could be used with a series of programs - when one is closed, run the next, then the next, etc. until it loops back to the first. Not sure why that would be useful, but then many uses for the commandline are things that you don't actually need to do very often, so there isn't an existing program. So then during the rare time you need it, you're screwed unless you happen to have taken the time to learn something about how your computer works so that you can just cobble out a small commandline in under a minute and roll on.


Any argument as to either the commandline or the gui being superior is just a waste of time. They are both extremely good at some things and extremely bad at others. A proper mix of both gives you more than enough power to warrant laughing maniacally at odd hours of the night, while only one or the other tends to result in bloody fist-prints on the walls.

The problem with the commandline is that it has a slightly steeper learning curve than the gui. Which means that to use it you have to think a little. But it isn't at all scary. Anybody who drives a car just fine but is afraid of the commandline needs to see a shrink. Screw up with a car and people DIE. Not only you, but perfectly innocent people driving next to you, or maybe only walking along the side of the road. And you're liable to be killed by other people who screw up. But on the commandline? Worst case you delete some data, and if you pay attention that rarely happens. Usually it just patiently beeps at you and gives you an error message. (I tend to disable the beeping though as I find it annoying.)



I think that making a basic programming class a mandatory requirement for graduating highschool would go a long way toward people using their computers efficiently. That first step is the hardest. Once you've actually done a little bit of programming you are able to see that it isn't some kind of mystical job that only geniuses can do. Anybody can hack together basic tools. Skill only becomes important when you're talking about making very efficient tools, or very robust tools that can survive anything, or doing more technical things like writing drivers.

And yes, I think the concept should be taken further such that graduation is also dependent on your having demonstrated other basic abilities, such as changing a tire, soldering, sewing buttons, cooking a pizza from scratch, doing laundry, and shooting a rifle.

School today lives too much in the abstract, and it doesn't even do abstract well. Throw out one of the crappier classes that nobody actually learns anything in anyway and replace it with "Fitness at Life" which could be a crash course on a bunch of these little things. (The programming warrants it's own class though (it would include other computer stuff too, like hardware installation). Computers are a big part of the world now, but the most I was required to be able to do to graduate was operate a word processor and a browser. Didn't need to have any inkling about how computers actually work. Oh, but I definitely needed to know all about how to write a proper sonnet! Because I'm so much more likely to need to write a sonnet than to install a harddrive....)




A couple months ago I was wandering through the library and a book grabbed my attention - it had a picture of a guy with a sword and was titled "Snow Crash". Read a little of the first page. Words cannot describe the insane incredibility of how that book kicks off. Anyway, the author was Neal Stephenson and I have now read three of his books (Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon, and The Diamond Age). The other day, I read an article he wrote named "In the Beginning was the Command Line". It was pretty interesting. Somewhat tangential, as is Stephenson's way, but that's half the fun.