Multiboot many .iso mix Puppy, Ubuntu, Mint, SuperOS etc ?

[nooby]

I failed using mint. Not sure why. Too tired to look into that one.

Have a 30GB internal drive that I have mounted on an adapter that allow it to be an external USB drive but it says it has only 8GB when I format it in Fat32. Using linux gparted says that 21GB is unallocated.

How does one make use of that space?

I should have used linux to mount it before formatting it.

now it is too late. I have to learn how to install on it.
This way I most likely dont have to mess with Vista mbr. I can make use of this functional external drive.

What search word can I use to learn how to release the allocated space?

I try to use it tomorrow based on advice uou give me folks.

I want to use at least 20GB of it but know too little how to make it work. I need some knowledge on how to open up such locked or hidden things.

Ok I test and see if the program can use it.

Both Ubuntu works as expected except that changes are not persistent neitehr on the USBflash or the USB external HDD formatted in Fat32

So I have changed something, Maybe the lz or gz I take a look on this and then go to bed.

Why have a 30GB hddd only 8GB? How do I reach the other 20GB?
oh I take a look with linux. I am in Ubuntu now

[JustGreg]

Nooby,

I looked at your posted menu.lst (Grub4Dos) for booting an iso file. The process is
taking the iso file and using disk emulation (i.e. the map command) to make
the file look like a CDROM. The iso file is exact image (binary copy) of the
CDROM media information.

The Grub4Dos HTML help has a section on using CDROM iso files. It is not
certain that all iso files (e.g. a Windows iso) can be booted. It is highly
dependent on the iso file and its internals.

Here is what I found from the menu.lst file that you posted. There are two
methods being used. One, which is correct by the Grub4Dos documents and the
other that appears to only work with Ubuntu and its derivatives.

Here is my explaination for the correct method used to boot the Parted Magic
4.5 isofile. As always, I reserve my right to be wrong and let others correct
me. The code is:

Code: Select all

find --set-root /pmagic-4.5.iso 
map /pmagic-4.5.iso (hd32) 
map --hook 
root (hd32) 
chainloader (hd32) 
boot

The first line (find --set-root /pmagic-4.5.iso) finds the device and
partition with the need iso. It sets the device and partition as the boot
device.

The second line [map /pmagic-4.5.iso (hd32)] tells Grub4Dos that it is going
to use the iso file as emulated device (hd32) for a CDROM.

The third line (map --hook) forces the change to accepted by the operating
system once it is booted. It stores the information in a special memory
location. I do not know the location used.

The fourth line [root (hd32)] sets the boot device to emulated CDROM.

The fifth line [chainloader (hd32)] points to the start of the boot loader
code of the emulated CDROM.

The last line (boot) starts the running of the boot loader code of the
emulated CDROM. For example, if the iso file has isolinux boot loader then
selecting this menu entry would result in one seeing the isolinux startup
screen.

I am not going to address the code for Ubuntu and Mint because it is specific
to those Linux distributions. It uses entries (0xff) that are not documented
in the Grub4Dos information. Using this method with other Linux distributions
has a large chance of not working. It is improper method for iso files. I
know it works, but, it does not make it correct. For example, if you want to
get money out of a bank, you can rob it using a bomb. It works, but is not
correct.

I am guessing your next question is how to do this with Puppy. It is not needed.
The normal Puppy CDROM or frugal installation to a USB media device takes
care of all systems. Puppy has the tools present and does not need this
approach.

[Sylvander]

1. "How does one make use of that space?"
Using GParted....
You either:
(a) Make a new additional partition to use all the un-allocated space...
Then format that new partition with the filesystem of your choice...
Or else...

(b) You could non-destructively re-size the existing 8GB partition to use the unallocated space.
A non-destructive re-size has its risk.
So, to eliminate the risk...
Ideally you'd make a copy of the contents [using Xfe?]
Then delete the originals...
Then non-destructively re-size the EMPTY partition...
Then copy [the folders/files] back to the partition...
Then either delete the backup copies or keep them.

[nooby]

Sylvander.

This one looks most practical.

Then non-destructively re-size the EMPTY partition...

I don't need the files, it was a temporary proof of concept that failed due to me not knowing how to make use of the casper-rw file.

So I would even destructively expand the nonallocated space and then format the whole drive to Fat32. The drive is 32 meg so I get maybe 30GB out of it??

That allow for many partitions of different linuxes to have their ownpartitions and maybe I can text FreeBDS and other things too.

I give it a try later today maybe.

Greg, much appreciated.

So it is that complicated then. What would be your recommendation then to use this on my HDD instead.

I guess one way to find out would be to test on an old computer what code the Ubuntu install make use of when it do frugal install.

Ago. who is the one taking over after Tuxcantfly left the Wubi thing told me at Ubuntu that the frugal was already built in 2008 one only had to know how to activate the automatic install.

After first wubi reboot one hit escape and then go to advanced and tell it to do frugal instead of wubi.

This is simple for him to say who knows what he refers to. I feel very insecure doing such on my main computer. so I have to decide which old computer I should use to test it on. That way I can see how they decided to do frugal.

Or I could do UNetbootin on that computer instead and tuxcantfly has set that program up to do frugal install.

I had it such on my main computer but either it was a glitch on my part or the Vista or the UNetbootin because that install locked the UNetbootin program from being used on that computer again.

I wrote to tuxcantfly and asked if that is part of the set up or something odd happening to my gear or if it is a known bug. But no answer.

People at Ubuntu did not know or recommended me to do partitions instead.

[Sylvander]

1. "I don't need the files"
In which case you can do it any way that's most convenient.
If the files don't need to be made irrecoverable for reasons of secrecy/confidentiality...
Using GParted:
(a) You could just delete the existing Partition, then make a new partition that fills the 30GB drive.

(b) Or re-format the existing partition [to (appear to) eliminate the files], then non-destructively re-size it to fill the drive.

[nooby]

Surprise sometimes things are easy. I forgot that the Mint iso I use had compressed with gz instead of lz so it booted right away after me edited lz to gz in the menu.lst

And that Mint could use the casper-rw file 512MB and save bookmarks and log in to Murga Puppy forum writing from booted Mint now.

Sadly everything is in Swedish So I cann not ask on english Mint forum have to make use of Swedish forum and ask them what the English word is for their Swedish term and then ask on international forum.

I can understand that Swedes want native language. I barely get understood my english and they would have much trouble. It is not easy to master a foreign language. one need talent for such.

[nooby]

I have started up SuperOS Ubuntu as frugal install on the main primary HDD of vista again because that is practical. To need to boot up a USB evice seems overkill if one can do it on the HDD.

But I still fail to know how to save. Most likely it is rather difficult.

I found a text about grub4dos that said it is difficultfor distros like Ubuntu but easy for Puppy. Jay Puppy is the way to go. But SuperOS has many many programs that Puppy don't have. So I want both. And now have both in frugal install. Unfortunately I still fail to know how to have two ubuntus t same time. Tried to pu Mint in a subdirectory and it booted half way.

Crashes with Error notice
(initramfs) Unable to find a medium containing a live file system.

So something in the script most likely look for something that has to be on the root and not in the subdirectory.

I have tested more old HDD that lay around from the scrapbox.
Found one with 7.5GB that one would be cool to learn how to do full install on with ext2 or ext3 so I can learn what others do with easy here in the forum. I've only used CD/DVD USB and frugal.

Okay hopefully in the future Puppy get so good that one don't need a Super OS ubuntu ever. Until then I pretend my set up is like a Cloud computing. One save things on the cloud instead and other things on the HDD which works well. And I use CLI commandon that I ahve on Gmail for to get swedish åäö that is faster than to use the GUI to the kbmap.

Hahah I hate CLI but it is very fast if one know how to make use of it.

[JustGreg]

Nooby,

You should use the know good procedure for Grub4Dos with CDROM iso files. But, you will have to become more familar with Grub4Dos. I happen to like Grub4Dos. It is in between the simple Grub legacy and more complex Grub2. Grub4Dos also can work in a NTFS partition and not modify the master boot record. You have reached the limit of my knowledge on this one.

[nooby]

it is obvious me have to learn much more.

I also want to learn how to do full install on hdd. have found a ditched pentium 4 and that is good enough to experiment on. Sadly only 10G but that would work for puppy.

I am in Mint on a DVD just now on that one and it actually have a puppy on it,

A 214 version. So rather old. But the menu is not there it don't boot and show a choice so put a modern pup on it istead later today.

I could not sleep it is 3.17 am now. so I tested the scrapped computer. I also have one HDD with 20B that I will use as an external to my main computer and have linux installed on,

but at the moment I know too little about how to format in ext3 or fat32. Can Vista read ext3?

My frugal install of Super OS Ubuntu on the internal HDD formatted to NTFS works very well but fail to save. That seems to be a restraint by grub4dos? But I am not sure about that.

On the External HDD it saves good even keyboardmaps and bookmarks.


Okay on the internal Vista NTFS HDD it can save documents and pictures and youtube and pdf and such but not bookmarks or changes to the OS.

[nooby]

Maybe some progress. Tiny Core Linux developer who seems to support frugal install gives a tutorial on grub4dos here

http://wiki.tinycorelinux.com/tiki-inde ... g_from_ISO

http://tinycorelinux.com/forum/index.php?topic=4689.0
How to use ext.2 and maybe that teach me to use it for Ubuntu and Puppy and Tiny Core to coexist on my HDD or at least a HDD external via USB.

Have to run

[jrocks]

seems i found another multi disk iso maybe there can be help here also

http://ultilex.linux-bg.org/

not sure if thats what you meen but me still learning stuff

[nooby]

Thanks jrocks,

do you notice that none of it is Ubuntu? and all on external but cool that all of them can be persistent.

On the pendrivelinux version of MultiPass there only one seems to save.

but I could be me doing it wrong but I ahve tested it three or four times now and one of the distros hook the casper-rw file and then kind of owns it. I don't remember they have explained how to get the others to save.

apart from Slackware distros like Slax, Wolvix, Goblin, Nimblex, Vortex and many many more that all can save from day one due to them all built that way. That is why Puppy can save too. The developers what them to have that feature while Ubuntu types seems to not like that way.

But good that you told me about it. One learn from all examples because one can see a problem from many angles and follow their ideas and hopefully see opportunities that one failed to grasp without these new inspiration.

so great thanks.

Did I tell about the Hack5 guy on Youtube? I searched for Multi boot and found a guy on youtube doing How to videos and then he linked to his hack5 forum. The word Hack makes me nervous. But they also want to have same thing as me. Many distros on same usb HDD drive or flashdrive

http://hak5.org/forums/index.php?s=c9ad ... owforum=52

I guess that Pendrivelinux learned about it from them?

[nooby]

Is this Virtual CloneDrive 5.2.0.2 something one can use or how does that one work?

http://www.softpedia.com/reviews/window ... 9568.shtml

irtual CloneDrive allows you to run CD/DVD applications from the hard disk no more need for physical CD/DVD drives or the actual CD/DVD media.

Features:

Emulates up to 8 drives
Works with ISO

How could that work. Surprise for me.

[davesurrey]

Hi nooby,
I've used Virtual CloneDrive and find it really useful. Last week I had trouble installing the RC version of Windows 7 as none of my DVD/CD drives would boot from the DVD. So I installed the iso to my hard disk and ran the installer from Virtual CloneDrive. It worked perfectly. So yes it does do its job well but it's only replicating a CD/DVD drive. And for netbooks that don't have a DVD drive that's really useful of course.

How does it work? Or rather, what does it do?
Well you install Virtual CloneDrive to your hard disk and run it from a Windows programme, in your case Vista. You install the iso of say Ubuntu to your hard disk or it could be an external drive.. You run Virtual CloneDrive and point it at the iso file. It then appears to you as if you had made a CD with that iso and the files are available just as they would be if ran from the CD. Note you can't use it for booting that iso, as Virtual CloneDrive needs to be running under Vista or anther Windows OS. You can use it to look at and/or copy the files and run, for example, any installers that might be on the CD.

By the way, on one of your threads I saw that you have found an old PC and are going to use it to do your tests. I think this is a very good idea and so you can be more daring with what you do without the worry of detroying your Vista install.

HTH
Cheers
Dave

[nooby]

Dave, thank you very much indeed. I did download that virtual clone thing but did not trust it could boot things and you explained why, me only had a bad gut feeling

Yes I did the old computer thing. It is a Pentium 4 Compaq Pressario "4D2ALG....." something with winXP on it that was defunct. I failed to get it going. so I used SuperOS Live CD and told it to own the whole 10GB disk Too small it told me. Naah not too small I thought and started to delete every thing on it and did a format to Fat32 andthen told it to install again and it took forever but it worked out good. now it start SuperOs ubuntu from the HDD and it just works. Have three partitions. Ext3 Fat32 and fail to remember Swap file most likely. 7Gb. That will do to learn Ubuntu on.

But it is not a good way to learn boot loaders destructive impact on a Vista warranty.

I should have a real Vista on it and see what happens when one do different dual booting schemes.

But I only have "Recovery DVDs" for my OEM vista and I don't dare to try them on it. They have a record of the MAC of my modern HP and the program realize that this is a new machine and would lock itself from being used even on the modern machine until I tell Ms of my experiment and they forgive me and lock it up again. My wild guess.

So not sure how to make a realistic test.

Dave may I ask a very naive typical Nooby question?

What is easiest. Using a Remaster program and take Super Ubuntu and to give it same easy to use pup_save.2fs capability but an ubuntu_save.2fs unionfs thing instead then I can use my SuperOS with persistent save capability together with Puppy on a Vista in frugal install. I have 4 Puppy on it now.

Or is it easier to go some University course in writing boot loaders and to write a patch for Grub4DOS so it can handle persistent for NTFS? Now it can only do it on a USB drive.

To my very naive sense of computing. If Puppy linux can do pup_save.2fs then Ubuntu Linux only need those "modules" to be remastered in to do Ubuntu_save.2fs and and all would be great.

Am I too naive?

I have to run now but get back in one hour to read yours or somebody else interesting answer.

[davesurrey]

Hi Nooby,

But it is not a good way to learn boot loaders destructive impact on a Vista warranty.

I understand your caution.
But for the record, I can't see a boot loader such as grub4dos doing any permanent damage to the basic OS (Vista or whatever). But whether it is installed to the MBR (which is independant of the OS) or the partition boot record of the OS it can stop the OS from running. Note: stop it running is different from damaging it destructively. The former can be fixed. Actually EasyBCD can fix a broken MBR very easily.

But if your prefer to use your test PC...remember that your recovery DVD is going to be read-only so in no way can running it in another PC do anything to that DVD. There is no way your Vista PC would ever know the DVD has been placed into another PC. Think about it logically. If you are that worried you could make a temporary copy of the recovery disk even.

It is known that some recovery DVDs will only work with the PC that they came with. There again it is also common for such stories to be told and the reality to be different and the CD/DVD work in other PCs.

But the likely stopper will be that this recovery disk is just that. It may not contain the complete Vista OS but only tools to enable a reinstall from a partition on the PC itself.

And of course it has to be said that your software license, designed to stop folk making illegal copies to use on other systems, prohibits you legally from using it on any other PC.

Regarding your second question: I really have no idea. Both seem very very extreme ways of achieving an end goal. "Just adding a pup_save type mechanism to ubuntu" would I guess need a lot of complex tweaking. I suggest you continue what you are doing and read up and experiment to gain further knowledge and success.

HTH
Dave

[nooby]

Thanks indeed for taking time to give such a detailed answer.

since my little break from being active here today I have tested pup431JPquickboot and tested Pup432 again and I still prefer Puppy Stardust to these two more conventional ones. Could be my noobness.

Stardust does work best on my HP. Only thing it failed was to accept Belkin USB wifi dongle. Found no network

I am in SuperOS Ubuntu now and will test that one and it showed all my neighbours wifi modems. All locked so that is ok with me. None of the Puppies does show any network at all except three Puppies does do wired.

So SuperOS will be the one I use on the external HDD with persistent and on the old HP with small HDD only 10GB.

Stardust it the best of the Puppies in being out of the box but is not as good as the Superversion of Ubuntu. Standard Ubuntu is too complicated for such clumsy users as me. Too much to download for me. He added 169 updates and features to do SuperOS.
But I trust that Puppy will be the best one 2011 most likely. The Woof thing will make that happen.

[nooby]

Well to do multi boot of two different ubuntu distros is an involved thing.
Despite them being in different isos the casper-rw save file get into the mix and mess things up.

Finally I got "Linux Mint KDE Community Edition 8"going on my USB HDD.

took me all day Wednesday and half this Thursday due to me too stupid to grasp things fast.

When one know it was easy. The log in due to mixed up casper save files was ubuntu and not mint as everybody assumed by default. Sometime things are too simple to hit our mind.

So now I will most likely turn into a "Mint KDE CE 8" supporter. This is the best version me have every hit upon among the 45 linux distros.


But it is not for netbooks with SSD as far as I know it will ruin them by constant writing to the flash which puppy doesn't do.

I am writing from the Mint KDE CE now.

Maybe I install it on the 7GB big usb HDD external one. Would not that make it even better than to have it frugal install on it? Would survive updates better?

But it would not allow me to do tests of other distros if full install? I know too little again.

[Bronco Billy]

Well to do multi boot of two different ubuntu distros is an involved thing.
Despite them being in different isos the casper-rw save file get into the mix and mess things up.

Finally I got "Linux Mint KDE Community Edition 8"going on my USB HDD.

took me all day Wednesday and half this Thursday due to me too stupid to grasp things fast.

When one know it was easy. The log in due to mixed up casper save files was ubuntu and not mint as everybody assumed by default. Sometime things are too simple to hit our mind.

So now I will most likely turn into a "Mint KDE CE 8" supporter. This is the best version me have every hit upon among the 45 linux distros.


But it is not for netbooks with SSD as far as I know it will ruin them by constant writing to the flash which puppy doesn't do.

I am writing from the Mint KDE CE now.

Maybe I install it on the 7GB big usb HDD external one. Would not that make it even better than to have it frugal install on it? Would survive updates better?

But it would not allow me to do tests of other distros if full install? I know too little again.

What is Your Purpose in All This???? Are You Trying to Master every Permutation of Existing OS's and Possibe Installs...... If So.... Why?? Who Really Cares??? Most People Try to Zero in and Solve Problems that Directly Pertain to Their Own Lives and Not Master all Things Extraneous.... Have a Great Day.....