Puppy 5.1 to 6
Lobster, slightly confused by your question?
Are you asking for a broadline on what we want to see in Puppy 6 or what we should do with the revisions between 5.1 and 5.9?
if the first, i'd like to see puppy 6 be based on a "non application core" and everything else as sets of .sts's, (being defined sets of applications,) and .pet's, (as individual applications). Especially now that, according to BarryK, we can add a decent number of .sts's to the system. Also all sts's and pets should be "backward compatable" with the earlier core's of the 6.x series, one of the bugbear and most time consuming problems we have at present.
if the second, i'd like to see versions using ALL of the major distro's versions developed, say as a set using a code like 5.7.osuse11, 5.7.ubun10, 5.7.fed12, 5.7cb9 (CrunchBang), 5.7.abs13 (absolute linux), 5.7mand2010, etc.
and eventually with 5.8 being able to use ANY package repositry (from any distro.)
then 5.9 being 5.8 plus being able to pull in source and build a compatable pet with only a few keystrokes.
And yes I do know that will take much work, mainly scripting and profiling I think.
But think of the kudos if we could do it!
you asked
scsijon
Are you asking for a broadline on what we want to see in Puppy 6 or what we should do with the revisions between 5.1 and 5.9?
if the first, i'd like to see puppy 6 be based on a "non application core" and everything else as sets of .sts's, (being defined sets of applications,) and .pet's, (as individual applications). Especially now that, according to BarryK, we can add a decent number of .sts's to the system. Also all sts's and pets should be "backward compatable" with the earlier core's of the 6.x series, one of the bugbear and most time consuming problems we have at present.
if the second, i'd like to see versions using ALL of the major distro's versions developed, say as a set using a code like 5.7.osuse11, 5.7.ubun10, 5.7.fed12, 5.7cb9 (CrunchBang), 5.7.abs13 (absolute linux), 5.7mand2010, etc.
and eventually with 5.8 being able to use ANY package repositry (from any distro.)
then 5.9 being 5.8 plus being able to pull in source and build a compatable pet with only a few keystrokes.
And yes I do know that will take much work, mainly scripting and profiling I think.
But think of the kudos if we could do it!
you asked
scsijon
Lobster wrote: As has been said Quirky is NOT Puppy 5 it is a puplet
This is Puppy 5
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=01457
Lucid
Wary
Very Wary Puppy
Quirky Puplet is now available
BarryK wrote:Regarding the triple-whammy, I'll change it to:
Lucid Puppy
Wary Puppy
Quirky Puppy
...I'll aim at releasing my Quirky at the same time. The main difference is that Quirky won't have the rolled-back Xorg, just the full-steam ahead bleeding edge.
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Here is the wiki entry for someone to improve
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy5
Quirky is a puplet
or more accurately a wooflet
and a NEW distribution based on Puppy
At the moment most of our Puppy users are using Puppy 4.3.1
Like Warren my main interest is in Lucid
but some will be using the t2 built Quirky
- it has many updates
Quirky is part of our triple whammy release
Some will prefer the more conservative 'wary'
People feeding back to Puppeee or 64bit Fatdog
and other releases
also end up effecting the main version
I can see that with the Lucid update option built in
and the Woof system from Barry
we now have more possibilities
I tend to run 'fresh' or experimental
As far as I can see 4.3.2 and 4.4 are the best updates
(if/when available) to 4.3.1
Completely new users are best served by either Lucid (Puppy 5)
or Quirky (New distribution based on Puppy)
So the question is really for those familiar
with the testing
and usage of what will emerge as Puppy 5
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy5
. . . what plans for developers and cohesion we might start to
instigate
We are Puppy
Anything is possible
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy5
Me tooLobster, slightly confused by your question?
Quirky is a puplet
or more accurately a wooflet
and a NEW distribution based on Puppy
At the moment most of our Puppy users are using Puppy 4.3.1
Like Warren my main interest is in Lucid
but some will be using the t2 built Quirky
- it has many updates
Quirky is part of our triple whammy release
Some will prefer the more conservative 'wary'
People feeding back to Puppeee or 64bit Fatdog
and other releases
also end up effecting the main version
I can see that with the Lucid update option built in
and the Woof system from Barry
we now have more possibilities
I tend to run 'fresh' or experimental
As far as I can see 4.3.2 and 4.4 are the best updates
(if/when available) to 4.3.1
Completely new users are best served by either Lucid (Puppy 5)
or Quirky (New distribution based on Puppy)
So the question is really for those familiar
with the testing
and usage of what will emerge as Puppy 5
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy5
. . . what plans for developers and cohesion we might start to
instigate
We are Puppy
Anything is possible
Last edited by Lobster on Wed 05 May 2010, 13:20, edited 1 time in total.
phtttt.... Open your eyes, bud! Try my very first post following your question. How much clearer does it have to be????? Geez, Louise! Hey, if you don't want to take MY word for it, what about this from Barry?rcrsn51 wrote:So the original question remains unanswered.
BarryK wrote:Quirky 1.0
I, Barry Kauler, the founder of Puppy Linux and Woof, created Quirky as an avenue to explore new ideas. There may be some features in this distro that you won't find in other puppies, either different applications and utilities, different system scripts/behaviour, or even some fundamentally new underlying behaviour. This is very much a moving target. Quirky is currently built from packages compiled in T2. Some of the ideas may be a bit strange, hence the name "Quirky"!
Aw, Lob, tell me you just didn't ignore everything that's been said. Do you really want "Completely new users..." fanging around in Quirky? Especially when Barry has made it clear that is "bleeding edge"?Lobster wrote:Completely new users are best served by either Lucid or Quirky
[i]Actions speak louder than words ... and they usually work when words don't![/i]
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SIP:whodo@proxy01.sipphone.com; whodo@realsip.com
- Lobster
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Thanks Warren,
I did read your post, several times, I also had to rewrite my own and simplify the wiki entries - and do a couple of Quirky vids . . .
This release of Quirky is pretty mainstream
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dis ... ky-1.0.htm
Lucid is quite big in comparison.
Ideally I would like to recommend 4.4 or 4.3.2
but if a new user said should I try Quirky, 4.3..1 or await the Lucid release
m m m . . . depends . . .
My sisters will be provided with Puppy 5 Lucid . . .
Barry is gonna bug test it - it feels good
The answers are now more fluid, more choice, more possibilities
I am hoping for Dpup to return. 4.4 is very good.
Puppy is growing up.
I did read your post, several times, I also had to rewrite my own and simplify the wiki entries - and do a couple of Quirky vids . . .
This release of Quirky is pretty mainstream
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/dis ... ky-1.0.htm
Lucid is quite big in comparison.
Ideally I would like to recommend 4.4 or 4.3.2
but if a new user said should I try Quirky, 4.3..1 or await the Lucid release
m m m . . . depends . . .
My sisters will be provided with Puppy 5 Lucid . . .
Barry is gonna bug test it - it feels good
The answers are now more fluid, more choice, more possibilities
I am hoping for Dpup to return. 4.4 is very good.
Puppy is growing up.
@lobster @WhoDo
Life in the Puppysphere seems to throw up some unexpected or "Quirky" issues - something like Einsteins's (lol) Theory of Relativity where normality takes a holiday and Quirkiness rules instead.
Quirky was certainly meant as a bleeding edge test-bed for the latest ideas - complete with the caveat that it might not suit beginners or users who want things "just to work". So be warned!
Unexpectedly though, Quirky has turned out to be remarkably stable and well-behaved. I know this from having tested several versions of it. It might well be fine for use by newcomers. May not work with every single hardware combination - but the same can also be said of non-Quirky versions too.
Simply a case of intentions turning out other than expected.
OK say I'm a newbie and need advice about which Puppy version to go for. How would you lay out the options for me and on what basis?
Life in the Puppysphere seems to throw up some unexpected or "Quirky" issues - something like Einsteins's (lol) Theory of Relativity where normality takes a holiday and Quirkiness rules instead.
Quirky was certainly meant as a bleeding edge test-bed for the latest ideas - complete with the caveat that it might not suit beginners or users who want things "just to work". So be warned!
Unexpectedly though, Quirky has turned out to be remarkably stable and well-behaved. I know this from having tested several versions of it. It might well be fine for use by newcomers. May not work with every single hardware combination - but the same can also be said of non-Quirky versions too.
Simply a case of intentions turning out other than expected.
OK say I'm a newbie and need advice about which Puppy version to go for. How would you lay out the options for me and on what basis?
Life is too short to spend it in front of a computer
Depends on how computer savvy they are.OK say I'm a newbie and need advice about which Puppy version to go for. How would you lay out the options for me and on what basis?
if they are like me they most likely should try Lupu first?
Because it has a good info on choice of browsers so those that love Chromium can get that one without having to learn how to install things the manual way can just click. And those of us like me who are into Firefox can get that one almost instantly.
I am very unsure of if they have graphic driver problems which works best.
Q21 failed for me but Q1 worked and Lupu works out of the box but choose vesa and one have to set it up after that so that could be a big help because one can read suggestions by others while on Q1 if it fail with graphic then you are on your own with a black screen and hard reboot.
So I am a Chicken Guy. I would say one should always try all three. in this order.
Lupu, Quirky Wary.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
Nooby wrote:
How about implementing a hybrid project that might be called "Puppy Unity", or "Unity Puppy" ,"Puppy Unified" or even "Puppy Noobie" etc. etc.
This version would contain the best parts of several Puppy versions.
i.e. bits of Lupu (Quickpet etc.), Quirky and Macpup.
The end result would be way over the usual Puppy size limit. At this point, Ttuuxxx gets called in and applies the scissors in the usual way.
This resultant puplet might be the one to recommend to newcomers.
Well, OK there's a start about making some sense out of this.So I am a Chicken Guy. I would say one should always try all three. in this order.
Lupu, Quirky Wary.
How about implementing a hybrid project that might be called "Puppy Unity", or "Unity Puppy" ,"Puppy Unified" or even "Puppy Noobie" etc. etc.
This version would contain the best parts of several Puppy versions.
i.e. bits of Lupu (Quickpet etc.), Quirky and Macpup.
The end result would be way over the usual Puppy size limit. At this point, Ttuuxxx gets called in and applies the scissors in the usual way.
This resultant puplet might be the one to recommend to newcomers.
Life is too short to spend it in front of a computer
Barry love SeaMonkey or he loves a certain size of iso file so he go for SM.
Other devs prefer Opera or Chromium or something else. Why no Firefox?
So they chose the one they like.
Lupu dev accept that everybody??? love choice and control over choice so many browsers are included.
But only those with very limited resources need to chose one instead of all three.
If you want to only have a CD or a DVD then maybe it is bad with choice of three.
Barry thought of to use a multi distro CD and then when one have decided it only make use of the preferred choice.
Even on a 1GB usb one can have two or three in fugal install?
Other devs prefer Opera or Chromium or something else. Why no Firefox?
So they chose the one they like.
Lupu dev accept that everybody??? love choice and control over choice so many browsers are included.
But only those with very limited resources need to chose one instead of all three.
If you want to only have a CD or a DVD then maybe it is bad with choice of three.
Barry thought of to use a multi distro CD and then when one have decided it only make use of the preferred choice.
Even on a 1GB usb one can have two or three in fugal install?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
Thank you. That confirms what I have felt about Quirky from my own tests.tronkel wrote:Unexpectedly though, Quirky has turned out to be remarkably stable and well-behaved. I know this from having tested several versions of it. It might well be fine for use by newcomers. May not work with every single hardware combination - but the same can also be said of non-Quirky versions too.
To add to my above post about the hybrid puplet, what about stuff from Jemimah's puplet being included?
As I understand it, she would prefer to use Quirky as a base for the next iteration of Puppee. So if Quirky was chosen as the base for a new Puppy hybrid project, a possible outcome of this could be something called Puppee Netbook Hybrid or some such variation on this.
As I understand it, she would prefer to use Quirky as a base for the next iteration of Puppee. So if Quirky was chosen as the base for a new Puppy hybrid project, a possible outcome of this could be something called Puppee Netbook Hybrid or some such variation on this.
Life is too short to spend it in front of a computer
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I don't think newbies are here in these forums yet to ask that. They are going to download what is on the official site listed as the "official current version". Most won't find the forums or wiki's or other puplets until after the fact. They will want it to work before that, at least the basics.tronkel wrote:@lobster @WhoDo
Life in the Puppysphere seems to throw up some unexpected or "Quirky" issues - something like Einsteins's (lol) Theory of Relativity where normality takes a holiday and Quirkiness rules instead.
Quirky was certainly meant as a bleeding edge test-bed for the latest ideas - complete with the caveat that it might not suit beginners or users who want things "just to work". So be warned!
Unexpectedly though, Quirky has turned out to be remarkably stable and well-behaved. I know this from having tested several versions of it. It might well be fine for use by newcomers. May not work with every single hardware combination - but the same can also be said of non-Quirky versions too.
Simply a case of intentions turning out other than expected.
OK say I'm a newbie and need advice about which Puppy version to go for. How would you lay out the options for me and on what basis?
I use 431 because that's what the official version to download was at the time (still is for now), and I have been hugely happy with it so haven't wanted or needed to try another. I think the question is, what is going to replace THAT? And whatever does, has to be something that will be regularly and reliably maintained and watched and fixed promptly if needed. I don't think Quirky fits that bill based on what Barry has said (although so far it sounds GREAT), no matter how stable it is. 432 seems to have been at least temporarily forgotten, and the rest seem to be very specialized. The successor to 431 should not be so specialized that only a limited number of people can offer support, either.
Last edited by shariebeth on Wed 05 May 2010, 14:15, edited 1 time in total.
My poor skill in reading text again.are going to download what is on the official site listed as the "official current version".
But what is it that Barry says on the blog now then?
Quirky 1.00 will be one of three official puppy named
Quirky puppy, Lucid Puppy and Wary Puppy? But I am poor at it. I readily admit that
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
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Ok *tries again*.
I am a random person who has heard somebody talk about puppy linux.
I then google "puppy linux" and get first up:
www.puppylinux.org
I go to that and see I can choose the "Downloads" page which makes me go "aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh how do I know which to pick??????? This is too hard and complicated!!!!!11111"
or I can go to the "Download latest release" and see ONE nice easy option with instructions.
This one nice easy option needs to be maintained regularly and reliably, must be generic enough that the majority of users/devs can give support, and problems fixed immediately.
This version is going to be the face of puppy. It will get people in the door. It has to work and it has to be supported. This is what will get people to see the other versions and want to try them too.
Too many choices too soon is not good.
I am a random person who has heard somebody talk about puppy linux.
I then google "puppy linux" and get first up:
www.puppylinux.org
I go to that and see I can choose the "Downloads" page which makes me go "aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh how do I know which to pick??????? This is too hard and complicated!!!!!11111"
or I can go to the "Download latest release" and see ONE nice easy option with instructions.
This one nice easy option needs to be maintained regularly and reliably, must be generic enough that the majority of users/devs can give support, and problems fixed immediately.
This version is going to be the face of puppy. It will get people in the door. It has to work and it has to be supported. This is what will get people to see the other versions and want to try them too.
Too many choices too soon is not good.
I like your way of reasoning. That is the better approach.
I guess they got caught by the Lucid Ubuntu fever that 10.04 created.
But if Q1.00 turns out just right that can be the official Puppy Linux named Quirky Puppy or just Puppy Linux.
I just guess.
But the best would be if one could have choice in any kind of puppy which browser one prefer.
I guess they got caught by the Lucid Ubuntu fever that 10.04 created.
But if Q1.00 turns out just right that can be the official Puppy Linux named Quirky Puppy or just Puppy Linux.
I just guess.
But the best would be if one could have choice in any kind of puppy which browser one prefer.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
WhoDo appears to be talking to a brick wall - yet he has the most evidence to back up his statements.
At the moment Barry says Quirky is experimental. I don't recommend experiments to newbies, even if they are stable.
If you read the rest of Barry's notes on Quirky then despite the fact it might be stable and largely like Puppy now it might suddenly veer off into a new idea completely in the next release.
I must admit I don't understand Barry's direction on Puppy now. He gets concerned about Distrowatch ratings and decides to promote a triple wammy - none of which is called Puppy. Quite how that will put Puppy up the ratings is beyond me, even if it were a laudable aim. As Jemimah says - Barry is doing what he wants to do, which is fine by me.
As for getting a stable Puppy to recommend to newbies, maybe Barry is saying it is up to us now - don't rely on him to create it. He is offering any of the technology he creates in Quirky, if we want it, but the responsibility for a stable distro is ours.
At the moment Barry says Quirky is experimental. I don't recommend experiments to newbies, even if they are stable.
If you read the rest of Barry's notes on Quirky then despite the fact it might be stable and largely like Puppy now it might suddenly veer off into a new idea completely in the next release.
I must admit I don't understand Barry's direction on Puppy now. He gets concerned about Distrowatch ratings and decides to promote a triple wammy - none of which is called Puppy. Quite how that will put Puppy up the ratings is beyond me, even if it were a laudable aim. As Jemimah says - Barry is doing what he wants to do, which is fine by me.
As for getting a stable Puppy to recommend to newbies, maybe Barry is saying it is up to us now - don't rely on him to create it. He is offering any of the technology he creates in Quirky, if we want it, but the responsibility for a stable distro is ours.
There's no winning on the browser issue.
You have to include at least one browser or Puppy doesn't work "out of the box."
You can't include multiple browsers, or puppy is no longer small.
Alternate browsers can be packaged separately as add-ons which is how it's done today.
You can have multiple versions of Puppy with different default browsers - but as is noted above - too many versions is confusing for users and hard for devs to maintain.
You have to include at least one browser or Puppy doesn't work "out of the box."
You can't include multiple browsers, or puppy is no longer small.
Alternate browsers can be packaged separately as add-ons which is how it's done today.
You can have multiple versions of Puppy with different default browsers - but as is noted above - too many versions is confusing for users and hard for devs to maintain.
download
Yes, the download is here: Download Latest Release.htm
Quirly 1.0 - is this for the general user public?
Many users are just discovering 4.3.1. If they discover Q1 and are satisfied, then well and good.
Sorry, if you are talking about users, then they still have 4.3.1. In that download page, it's only pup-431.iso.shariebeth wrote:I can go to the "Download latest release" and see ONE nice easy option with instructions.
This one nice easy option needs to be maintained regularly and reliably, must be generic enough that the majority of users/devs can give support, and problems fixed immediately.
..
Too many choices too soon is not good.
Quirly 1.0 - is this for the general user public?
Many users are just discovering 4.3.1. If they discover Q1 and are satisfied, then well and good.
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].