Hi everybody,
please forbear with me, if this is not the right place to write down my litlle problem with puppy and accordingly with Grub4Dos and an USB-HDD.
I've got a sweet little thin client from HP and puppy works on this machine very great. The system has 256MB RAM and a 256MB HDD inside. I installed MS DOS 6.22, the .exe from Grub4Dos and configured all this correctly so that puppy can start from the HDD.
But now I have so following problem. When I additionally connect an USB-HDD at boot time. I get the boot menu from MS DOS with the possibility to choose puppy or DOS. Now, if I choose puppy the hole system simply hangs.
I don't have any idea whats wrong.
See my menu.lst from the grub loader:
title puppy RAM
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
kernel (hd0,0)/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram PFILE=pup001-none-262144 PHOME=hda1
initrd (hd0,0)/image.gz
Wether the USB-HDD is connected the integrated HDD ist still hd0.
If I start in DOS and run the grub.exe manually I get the same behaviour.
I'm helpless.
Can't boot puppy with Grub4Dos and a USB-HDD
I am not sure, but, I have found that usb devices are device hd1 if a IDE hard drive is present. You may want to check a post of mine (http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=5961) on using Grub to boot a Kanguru Zipper Hard Drive. It may help. I am not expert on this and am learning myself.
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much
Thanks for your posts.
I did the following actions:
Running the grub command under puppy and check what is the first and second hdd. Here my integrated hard disk is still hd0 the USB-HDD is hd1.
I think about, that may be the allocation is interchanged under DOS.
Changing the menu.lst to boot from (hd1,0). I get the same error. After choosing puppy from my DOS startup the system freeze.
I want to start puppy from the integrated disk. USB-HDD should be only storage.
If I confirm each line of the config.sys the system execute this line and than hangs up: INSTALL=c:\boot\grub\grub.exe
summary:
------------
- USB-HDD is connected at startup, choosing puppy und loading the grub.exe -> system freeze
- Choosing DOS -> works.
- Choosing puppy without USB-HDD at startup and plug-in the disk after the kernel was extracted -> works.
- Starting DOS and running grub.exe manually -> system freeze
- Starting DOS and running grub.exe manually without any menu.lst -> system freeze
Conclusion:
-------------
- there is no error in the menu.lst
- there is no possibility to setup grub manually
- there are no messages before the system hangs
- it's the same behaviour with other USB devices like an USB-Stick
I don't have any idea what to do next.
I did the following actions:
Running the grub command under puppy and check what is the first and second hdd. Here my integrated hard disk is still hd0 the USB-HDD is hd1.
I think about, that may be the allocation is interchanged under DOS.
Changing the menu.lst to boot from (hd1,0). I get the same error. After choosing puppy from my DOS startup the system freeze.
I want to start puppy from the integrated disk. USB-HDD should be only storage.
If I confirm each line of the config.sys the system execute this line and than hangs up: INSTALL=c:\boot\grub\grub.exe
summary:
------------
- USB-HDD is connected at startup, choosing puppy und loading the grub.exe -> system freeze
- Choosing DOS -> works.
- Choosing puppy without USB-HDD at startup and plug-in the disk after the kernel was extracted -> works.
- Starting DOS and running grub.exe manually -> system freeze
- Starting DOS and running grub.exe manually without any menu.lst -> system freeze
Conclusion:
-------------
- there is no error in the menu.lst
- there is no possibility to setup grub manually
- there are no messages before the system hangs
- it's the same behaviour with other USB devices like an USB-Stick
I don't have any idea what to do next.
Uriens
Thanks for providing the information. It is very strange behaviour.
My menu.1st (for the Puppy bit) is:
title Puppy Linux 1.0.8r1 from FAT32 hda1 compressed
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/puppy.108r1/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PFILE=pup001-none-262144
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/puppy.108r1/image.gz
boot
There are very slight differences from yours. No rootnoverify line. I store my vmlinuz and image.gz in a folder rather than the root directory of the internal drive. My root refers to ram0 and not ram. Additional boot line.
I do not have a USB-HDD but this works fine with a USB memory stick attached.
It would be interesting to put a choice of options in your menu.1st, even if they are 2 the same, to see if they display. If they don't then grub.exe is upset with your USB-HDD. If they do then grub.exe is OK and it is Puppy that gets upset.
If grub.exe is the problem then I would make sure you have the latest version. The version I have is dated 14 December 2005. If still a problem then maybe something other than grub has to be considered.
If Puppy is the problem then I do not have the knowledge to help. Hopefully someone else does.
ICPUG
Thanks for providing the information. It is very strange behaviour.
My menu.1st (for the Puppy bit) is:
title Puppy Linux 1.0.8r1 from FAT32 hda1 compressed
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/puppy.108r1/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PFILE=pup001-none-262144
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/puppy.108r1/image.gz
boot
There are very slight differences from yours. No rootnoverify line. I store my vmlinuz and image.gz in a folder rather than the root directory of the internal drive. My root refers to ram0 and not ram. Additional boot line.
I do not have a USB-HDD but this works fine with a USB memory stick attached.
It would be interesting to put a choice of options in your menu.1st, even if they are 2 the same, to see if they display. If they don't then grub.exe is upset with your USB-HDD. If they do then grub.exe is OK and it is Puppy that gets upset.
If grub.exe is the problem then I would make sure you have the latest version. The version I have is dated 14 December 2005. If still a problem then maybe something other than grub has to be considered.
If Puppy is the problem then I do not have the knowledge to help. Hopefully someone else does.
ICPUG
ICPUG, thanks for you feedback!ICPUG wrote:Uriens
My menu.1st (for the Puppy bit) is:
title Puppy Linux 1.0.8r1 from FAT32 hda1 compressed
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/puppy.108r1/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PFILE=pup001-none-262144
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/puppy.108r1/image.gz
boot
ICPUG
I checked the procedure of loading grub.exe again and also change the grub.exe to the newest one. But the problem is, that my system doesn't load the menu.lst. The system freeze bevor. But only if any USB-Device is connected
I've got some new information. If I disable USB support in my BIOS, everything works fine even no USB. With enabled USB-controller it's the same behaviour.
Uriens,
Your latest results were not what I wanted to here. It is beginning to look as if Grub4DOS has a problem with your USB setup. I just love Grub4DOS for its simplicity so this is disappointing.
You have already done the next step I would have tried, (tinkering with the BIOS), so I would now start looking to see if an alternative loader will work. I presume your USB drive does not cause DOS to hang up! If it does then it may not be possible to find a solution.
I have not tried any other loaders myself but ones that are mentioned in other places are loadlin, (which looks the simplest), or Smart Boot Manager. The latter is a Boot Manager so it still needs an OS loader to load the Linux afterwards. A quick Google should find the programs to download.
I hope this helps to get a solution.
ICPUG
Your latest results were not what I wanted to here. It is beginning to look as if Grub4DOS has a problem with your USB setup. I just love Grub4DOS for its simplicity so this is disappointing.
You have already done the next step I would have tried, (tinkering with the BIOS), so I would now start looking to see if an alternative loader will work. I presume your USB drive does not cause DOS to hang up! If it does then it may not be possible to find a solution.
I have not tried any other loaders myself but ones that are mentioned in other places are loadlin, (which looks the simplest), or Smart Boot Manager. The latter is a Boot Manager so it still needs an OS loader to load the Linux afterwards. A quick Google should find the programs to download.
I hope this helps to get a solution.
ICPUG
@ ICPUG
You're a good man.
And here is something for the men who love mystic things.
I've tried to use loadlin. The installation and configuration is very simple and it was possible to load puppy by my first try. I think great....
...but when I start to load puppy with connected USB-device the loadlin breaks with unreadable characters after extracting the kernel and the image.
It doesn't make much fun anymore.
I think I will try to use Smart Boot Manager. But if there is the same behaviour I will be apt to throw my thin client against one of my walls.
The problem by Smart Boot Manager is htat I need LILO additionally.
You're a good man.
And here is something for the men who love mystic things.
I've tried to use loadlin. The installation and configuration is very simple and it was possible to load puppy by my first try. I think great....
...but when I start to load puppy with connected USB-device the loadlin breaks with unreadable characters after extracting the kernel and the image.
It doesn't make much fun anymore.
I think I will try to use Smart Boot Manager. But if there is the same behaviour I will be apt to throw my thin client against one of my walls.
The problem by Smart Boot Manager is htat I need LILO additionally.
Uriens,
Your latest report brings good and bad news.
If you are having trouble with Loadlin as well, it suggests Grub4DOS is OK. That is the good news. The bad news is that there appears to be some weird hardware interaction when you connect USB. I am not at all hopeful of getting anything to work.
I must admit I personally would not even attempt Smart Boot Manager because I would not want to play with LILO - which plays with the MBR of the hard disk.
I've just been looking at some other posts on this forum, and another guy swears by using syslinux as a loader. This is the loader used on the LiveCD.
One thought struck me today. When you turned off USB support in BIOS did you check that when Puppy successfully booted it could not see the USB drive? Did you try looking at what MUT was showing connected? If it can see the USB drive I would expect it to see an sda device. My BIOS, being extremely old does not seem to have any USB facilities. It relies on the OS. My DOS and Windows 98 does not fully support the USB, yet as I say Puppy sees my USB memory stick as sda. It is one reason why I use Puppy on this PC!
ICPUG
Your latest report brings good and bad news.
If you are having trouble with Loadlin as well, it suggests Grub4DOS is OK. That is the good news. The bad news is that there appears to be some weird hardware interaction when you connect USB. I am not at all hopeful of getting anything to work.
I must admit I personally would not even attempt Smart Boot Manager because I would not want to play with LILO - which plays with the MBR of the hard disk.
I've just been looking at some other posts on this forum, and another guy swears by using syslinux as a loader. This is the loader used on the LiveCD.
One thought struck me today. When you turned off USB support in BIOS did you check that when Puppy successfully booted it could not see the USB drive? Did you try looking at what MUT was showing connected? If it can see the USB drive I would expect it to see an sda device. My BIOS, being extremely old does not seem to have any USB facilities. It relies on the OS. My DOS and Windows 98 does not fully support the USB, yet as I say Puppy sees my USB memory stick as sda. It is one reason why I use Puppy on this PC!
ICPUG