I was drawn to Puppy Linux because of the unique way in which Barry Kauler had developed a distro which was rock solid, fast, and friendly to beginners. He's really taken the road less traveled, and as Robert Frost said: "that has made all the difference."
I've been able to build on top of the basic Puppy, expanding my 4.x version to include XFCE, Compiz, and a number of other cool bits of suave bling.
Now, I'm looking at whether I should upgrade to Wary or to Lucid.
It seems odd, in a way, that Barry would abandon his brand to his fans... and fork his own distro to produce Quirky/Wary. However, I understand that the enthusiasm of the movement which he has catalysed by his production of Puppy Linux has to be given its place. There certainly are advantages to going this route and drawing on the resources of a larger community base of people who are prepping and compiling packages for the bigger distro.
Trying out various versions of Lucid from 5.0 to 5.2, my first impressions (which can be often wrong) would tell me that 5.0 is very stable, and that 5.11 and 5.2 are not quite as solid.
My question then, to all of you, is if you've chosen to tread the Lucid path, or the Wary path... and I want to know why you chose one or the other.
Wary or Lucid?
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glassparrot
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Béèm
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I use both.
Bear in mind that Wary is for older equipment and Lucid for more modern ones.
Bear in mind that Wary is for older equipment and Lucid for more modern ones.
Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
Consult Wikka
Use peppyy's puppysearch
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
Consult Wikka
Use peppyy's puppysearch
I am lead to believe that Wary 5.0 is also a LTS ( Long Term Support ) project.
I liked using Wary 5.0 as it has a great inbuilt application that allows you to remove the inbuilt applications. This way you can use suit it to your needs and then remaster your OS.
Also the Lucid builds are built using Woof ( building system ) which utilitises Ubuntu binaries ( 60% ). This might make it easier for people who can find pre-compiled *.debs for applications.
I liked using Wary 5.0 as it has a great inbuilt application that allows you to remove the inbuilt applications. This way you can use suit it to your needs and then remaster your OS.
Also the Lucid builds are built using Woof ( building system ) which utilitises Ubuntu binaries ( 60% ). This might make it easier for people who can find pre-compiled *.debs for applications.
I tried Wary....and when it did not detect my audio chip, I posted about that in the forum requesting help. Barry never answered the request, so I gave up on Wary.
Thankfully, there are puplets that do work for me. I's suggest that you experiment before you abandon whatever version you have that works.
Thom
Thankfully, there are puplets that do work for me. I's suggest that you experiment before you abandon whatever version you have that works.
Thom
1. I try quite a number of different Puppies.
If they don't boot, I discard, and move on...
If they work, they are kept and tried.
2. The Puppies that look good, function well, do things I like...
Tend to rise to the top of the stack of Puppy CD-RW's.
3. Boxpup [413 then 431] was top of my stack.
Even though it's rather too minimalist [e.g. doesn't have a driver for my printer = HP Deskjet 840c].
4. Lupu-520 is now sitting at the top of my stack, because:
(a) It has some really special new features. [Quickpet,WMswitcher,Firewallstate,etc]
(b) The new method of setup at 1st run [rather nice], WORKS.
(c) It looks good. [This aught to be accepted as a basic must-have]
(d) EVERYTHING works, and works particularly well. [e.g. ALL partitions are successfully displayed on desktop]
5. I tried Quirky and Wary way back when.
If my memory isn't playing tricks, Quirky booted OK, and worked OK, but wasn't beautiful [see comment here about it being "workmanlike"].
It didn't rise to the top of my stack, and I eventually erased the disk.
Perhaps it's time I gave them another try.
If they don't boot, I discard, and move on...
If they work, they are kept and tried.
2. The Puppies that look good, function well, do things I like...
Tend to rise to the top of the stack of Puppy CD-RW's.
3. Boxpup [413 then 431] was top of my stack.
Even though it's rather too minimalist [e.g. doesn't have a driver for my printer = HP Deskjet 840c].
4. Lupu-520 is now sitting at the top of my stack, because:
(a) It has some really special new features. [Quickpet,WMswitcher,Firewallstate,etc]
(b) The new method of setup at 1st run [rather nice], WORKS.
(c) It looks good. [This aught to be accepted as a basic must-have]
(d) EVERYTHING works, and works particularly well. [e.g. ALL partitions are successfully displayed on desktop]
5. I tried Quirky and Wary way back when.
If my memory isn't playing tricks, Quirky booted OK, and worked OK, but wasn't beautiful [see comment here about it being "workmanlike"].
It didn't rise to the top of my stack, and I eventually erased the disk.
Perhaps it's time I gave them another try.
You might want to look at Think LinuxSylvander wrote: 5. I tried Quirky and Wary way back when.
If my memory isn't playing tricks, Quirky booted OK, and worked OK, but wasn't beautiful
http://brainwavedesigncentral.net/mike/ ... linux.html
It's based on Quirky 1.2
Thom
I only do manual frugal install and such take at most 5 minutes to try so no big deal testing a new puppy. And to keep all of those that works is not big deal either. They take at most 150MB + the pupsave file 512MB and a bit more maybe so I can have the HDD full of such frugal installs.
On my Acer Netbook I use Snow Puppy or Fluppy but latest Puppeee works good too.
On my Acer Netbook I use Snow Puppy or Fluppy but latest Puppeee works good too.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
I chose Quirky 1.4 and Wary 5 because they are like the original Puppies and are better suited to my equipment. Who can make a better Puppy than Barry, answer, no one. Others can help, but no one knows it better overall.
1. They both see a six core processor and Lucid doesn’t. The kernel may be older, but is compiled better.
2. The menus configure in a normal way, without having submenus with only one item in it.
So Quirky 1.4 and Wary are not necessarily for older equipment.
Duke
1. They both see a six core processor and Lucid doesn’t. The kernel may be older, but is compiled better.
2. The menus configure in a normal way, without having submenus with only one item in it.
So Quirky 1.4 and Wary are not necessarily for older equipment.
Duke
Neither, Puppy 4.4 please!
I've been using Puppy for a few years now. I think I've tried every major version of the mainstream (1.x, 2.x, 3.x, ) and some retros, and finally settled down with 4.3.1 after some difficulties with the earlier 4.x editions.
But 4.3.1 leaves much to be desired. I've never been able to download a youtube clip as advertised, and a few months ago Seamonkey started gobbling up chunks of the 2fs file by the megabyte. I now have to manually delete the browser cache (despite having it set to do this automatically) every time I watch a video online, but each week or so, Sealmonkey steals another few Megabytes of my 2fs file that I can't locate. A couple of months ago I had 492MB available, and now it's down to 466. I've wasted hours looking for the lost space via date stamps with little success.
Burning data disks with Puppy has always been a pain. Verification almost always gives error messages, and it often takes several tries to get a burn going at all. And then there's the lack of support for DVD-RAM and UDF.
And using Wine - has been little more than a dream. Ah, there once was a pet... but that's another story - working apps and modules that get left behind and are never replaced/updated.
Puppy's appeal has always been ease of setup - burn a disk, boot from it, and (hopefully) you're online with enough tools to get some help for the minor shortcomings. Knoppix was my first LiveCD of this kind, but as it got bigger and bigger, slower, and longer between updates, Puppy looked better and better.
Unfortunately, all this stopped when Barry stepped out. Support has always been a major problem with Puppy. If you have a problem, you need to:
1. get the attention of a coder who might be able to help (ie. with both the technical ability and political clout to have his work included in the next upgrade),
2. have a problem he finds sexy enough to work on
These requirements are further complicated by the fact that there is no rational system for reporting or prioritizing either bug reports or support request. A quick look at the accumulation of unanswered/unsolved bug reports in the forums will confirm this easily.
Even when the Puppy development schedule still existed under Barry's control, this resulted in fragmentation, as people stayed with older versions because the newer ones didn't support their hardware, or didn't have the applications they needed. But the fragmentation/.support issue has now gone ballistic.
For me, the first, and deadliest problem with the new pseudopuppies is continuity. I jumped on Lupu when it came out, only to find that I couldn't keep my 4.3.1 configuration as preserved in my 2fs file. I gave it a shot anyway, and found that I didn't even have the option of reinstalling some of the essential apps I had working in 4.3.1. The old pets didn't work, nor did the new ones (where available at all), nor did the replacement browsers. And it didn't (doesn't) look as though anyone is going to fix any of this to my satisfaction.
I haven't tried Wary, but I can't see the problem can ever be solved this way. Barry could be the best and hardest working coder in the world, but he's not immortal. A distro that basically depends on one person to keep going is not the basket you want to put your eggs in. Neither is one that forks off in a dozen directions every year.
The unfortunate reality, I've come to realize, is that one needs a distro with some reliable continuity of development and support for a serious OS, and I'm afraid Puppy is never going to make the cut. I really question whether any of the low-resource distros can fit the bill.
It's probably best to cut loose the old hardware, buy an up to date PC, ramp up the RAM, and go for one of the major distros, like Fedora or Ubuntu. I'm not buying a new laptop until I can afford one with USB3.0 on the motherboard and a USB 3.0 card reader installed (whenever that will be). But I may buy a new desktop somewhat sooner, and it will certainly have USB 3.0. I wonder how well Puppy will support that protocol? I'm not anxious to do the testing myself...
But 4.3.1 leaves much to be desired. I've never been able to download a youtube clip as advertised, and a few months ago Seamonkey started gobbling up chunks of the 2fs file by the megabyte. I now have to manually delete the browser cache (despite having it set to do this automatically) every time I watch a video online, but each week or so, Sealmonkey steals another few Megabytes of my 2fs file that I can't locate. A couple of months ago I had 492MB available, and now it's down to 466. I've wasted hours looking for the lost space via date stamps with little success.
Burning data disks with Puppy has always been a pain. Verification almost always gives error messages, and it often takes several tries to get a burn going at all. And then there's the lack of support for DVD-RAM and UDF.
And using Wine - has been little more than a dream. Ah, there once was a pet... but that's another story - working apps and modules that get left behind and are never replaced/updated.
Puppy's appeal has always been ease of setup - burn a disk, boot from it, and (hopefully) you're online with enough tools to get some help for the minor shortcomings. Knoppix was my first LiveCD of this kind, but as it got bigger and bigger, slower, and longer between updates, Puppy looked better and better.
Unfortunately, all this stopped when Barry stepped out. Support has always been a major problem with Puppy. If you have a problem, you need to:
1. get the attention of a coder who might be able to help (ie. with both the technical ability and political clout to have his work included in the next upgrade),
2. have a problem he finds sexy enough to work on
These requirements are further complicated by the fact that there is no rational system for reporting or prioritizing either bug reports or support request. A quick look at the accumulation of unanswered/unsolved bug reports in the forums will confirm this easily.
Even when the Puppy development schedule still existed under Barry's control, this resulted in fragmentation, as people stayed with older versions because the newer ones didn't support their hardware, or didn't have the applications they needed. But the fragmentation/.support issue has now gone ballistic.
For me, the first, and deadliest problem with the new pseudopuppies is continuity. I jumped on Lupu when it came out, only to find that I couldn't keep my 4.3.1 configuration as preserved in my 2fs file. I gave it a shot anyway, and found that I didn't even have the option of reinstalling some of the essential apps I had working in 4.3.1. The old pets didn't work, nor did the new ones (where available at all), nor did the replacement browsers. And it didn't (doesn't) look as though anyone is going to fix any of this to my satisfaction.
I haven't tried Wary, but I can't see the problem can ever be solved this way. Barry could be the best and hardest working coder in the world, but he's not immortal. A distro that basically depends on one person to keep going is not the basket you want to put your eggs in. Neither is one that forks off in a dozen directions every year.
The unfortunate reality, I've come to realize, is that one needs a distro with some reliable continuity of development and support for a serious OS, and I'm afraid Puppy is never going to make the cut. I really question whether any of the low-resource distros can fit the bill.
It's probably best to cut loose the old hardware, buy an up to date PC, ramp up the RAM, and go for one of the major distros, like Fedora or Ubuntu. I'm not buying a new laptop until I can afford one with USB3.0 on the motherboard and a USB 3.0 card reader installed (whenever that will be). But I may buy a new desktop somewhat sooner, and it will certainly have USB 3.0. I wonder how well Puppy will support that protocol? I'm not anxious to do the testing myself...
otropogo@gmail.com facebook.com/otropogo
Re. Wary or Lucid (or Quirky)?
Personally, I started with Puppy 4.1.2 (in January or February 2009). It was the latest version available at that time). It is my first Linux experience (not counting some short exposure long time ago) and I am using Puppy and Quirky (at home) all the time (no Windows at all). At work I have to use Windows, but I now have Quirky as dual boot, too.
And I was using version 4.x until recently, because it simply works, it is small and also I have made quite a lot of customisation. I still have Puppy 4.x installed but now 95% percent time I am using Quirky. I also have Lupu Puppy, but not the latest one yet. (I will certainly try it, when I get some free time.)
The main reason why I now prefer Quirky over Puppy 4.x is excellent support for video formats. So far, Quirky can play all the videos, I tried.
(Puppy 4.x can play all AVI files I tried, most of WMV files - but some did not play at all / or bad).
Why I prefer Quirky and Puppy 4.x over Lupu?
1. The ISO file is smaller (in Puppy 4 significantly, in Quirky not so much, but it still make important difference).
2. The menu is only one level deep (I really hate nested menus).
Certainly, Lupu is not bad, but the older version I have tried so far is not so polished as Puppy 4.x and Quirky. The main advantage of Lupu should be access to large repository of program, but it was only partly true for older version of Lupu.
On the other hand, I think it is big pity, that Puppy 4.x and Quirky does not have community (unoficial) repository. Now, I am able to find desired programs in forum articles much faster, but still I miss better repository much. This has been discussed many times in forum, but I still do not understand, why community repository does not exist. I think it is the main drawback for older Puppy and Quirky. In almost every other aspect Puppy and Quirky are excellent Linux distributions. (Yes, updated manual for Puppy and Quirky would be fine, too.)
And I was using version 4.x until recently, because it simply works, it is small and also I have made quite a lot of customisation. I still have Puppy 4.x installed but now 95% percent time I am using Quirky. I also have Lupu Puppy, but not the latest one yet. (I will certainly try it, when I get some free time.)
The main reason why I now prefer Quirky over Puppy 4.x is excellent support for video formats. So far, Quirky can play all the videos, I tried.
(Puppy 4.x can play all AVI files I tried, most of WMV files - but some did not play at all / or bad).
Why I prefer Quirky and Puppy 4.x over Lupu?
1. The ISO file is smaller (in Puppy 4 significantly, in Quirky not so much, but it still make important difference).
2. The menu is only one level deep (I really hate nested menus).
Certainly, Lupu is not bad, but the older version I have tried so far is not so polished as Puppy 4.x and Quirky. The main advantage of Lupu should be access to large repository of program, but it was only partly true for older version of Lupu.
On the other hand, I think it is big pity, that Puppy 4.x and Quirky does not have community (unoficial) repository. Now, I am able to find desired programs in forum articles much faster, but still I miss better repository much. This has been discussed many times in forum, but I still do not understand, why community repository does not exist. I think it is the main drawback for older Puppy and Quirky. In almost every other aspect Puppy and Quirky are excellent Linux distributions. (Yes, updated manual for Puppy and Quirky would be fine, too.)
I moved from 4.3.1 to 5.1.1 for one reason: to access the large Ubuntu repository. Been on Puppy since 2.0 and I finally got tired of tiny repositories.
It took some doing; the menu definitely needed fixing, PPM needed fixing, other stuff needed fixing. Now that I'm there it is good, and I'm loathe to move on to 5.2 even though it may be more polished (I don't know about that).
I definitely agree that only the mainline Puppies have any continuity, so those are the only ones I'm interested in. I'm not very concerned about size.
It took some doing; the menu definitely needed fixing, PPM needed fixing, other stuff needed fixing. Now that I'm there it is good, and I'm loathe to move on to 5.2 even though it may be more polished (I don't know about that).
I definitely agree that only the mainline Puppies have any continuity, so those are the only ones I'm interested in. I'm not very concerned about size.
Right now I find Spup gives me the best hardware support, is true to the Puppy philosophy, configures in the same way as 4X, has very up to date apps, is still a small iso, and works just a little better on my various PCs. I strongly suggest you try it. It is compatible with Slackware packages which are available through Puppy Package Manager.
A real Tour de Force this one......
A real Tour de Force this one......
Spup Frugal HD and USB
Root forever!
Root forever!
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Dewbie
Should the choice just be between Lucid or Wary?
Quite frankly I run what works for the job and this means keeping multiple pups frugally installed.
Lucid 5.2 is great on more modern hardware and the first boot experience is MUCH better than any previous pup.
Wary is set for my antique desktop (c 1998). It's good.
I don't use it but I guess Fluppy is the default for the netbook class of computer.
Then, when I want to work in a professional environment (OpenOffice rather than Abiword/gnumeric) plus Wine for those Windows apps without Linux equivalents I use Lighthouse Pup (with Mariner extension).
On top of these when I want to be a gamer I run Arcade Pup.
Mathematicians need SageLive.
Puppy is a bit different than other linuxes. Rather than a base, where you add the apps and it gets bigger and bigger, you just choose the right environment for your hardware and the job to be done.
Even if you follow the base approach I would rather load an sfs app on the fly and remove it again when finished.
Puppy is different - exploit its differences!
Quite frankly I run what works for the job and this means keeping multiple pups frugally installed.
Lucid 5.2 is great on more modern hardware and the first boot experience is MUCH better than any previous pup.
Wary is set for my antique desktop (c 1998). It's good.
I don't use it but I guess Fluppy is the default for the netbook class of computer.
Then, when I want to work in a professional environment (OpenOffice rather than Abiword/gnumeric) plus Wine for those Windows apps without Linux equivalents I use Lighthouse Pup (with Mariner extension).
On top of these when I want to be a gamer I run Arcade Pup.
Mathematicians need SageLive.
Puppy is a bit different than other linuxes. Rather than a base, where you add the apps and it gets bigger and bigger, you just choose the right environment for your hardware and the job to be done.
Even if you follow the base approach I would rather load an sfs app on the fly and remove it again when finished.
Puppy is different - exploit its differences!
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Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
I would echo *exactly* what ICPUG wrote, above, with the addition that, when all I want to do is surf the web and download YouTube videos, I use my Opera 11 1055 .pet --with the Opera Configurator, NoAds, FastestTube, and Translate 1.3 extensions --on a September 5, 2010 local woofbuild of t2-8.0rc Quirky, using the Openbox window manager. This Opera build has slightly inferior rendering to newer builds, but is absolutely dead stable, and very fast. (I should note here, that I have not yet tried the Opera 11 builds newer than 1111).
On my amd64 rig with an ATi HD 4550 video card, when given my fonting improvements .pet, this Quirky gives the best fonting of any Puppy --well, at least, better than Lighthouse 5.00F, better than Wary 5.0, better than Puppy 4.31, and better than Lucid Puppy 5.2 --and far better than Ubuntu 10.10.
Fonting is also better than that on FatDog64 511, even though FD64 is also a t2 build like Quirky. Evidently the t2 build of X in Quirky, as woof produced it as of last September 5, is absolutely perfect --better than FatDog, better than Wary. At least, when used with a reasonably modern ATi card.
But for compiling purposes I usually revert to Puppy 4.31, for the sake of reasonably broad compatibility.
Mrs. Speak's computer has MacPup 511, which is just Lucid Puppy 5.11 plus Enlightenment e17, because e17 has proven to be the easiest Linux window manager for her to handle.
This may change though, as I plan to compile qvwm, a Windows 98 clone, soon. I still think that Windows 98 was and remains the pinnacle of desktop window manager evolution, because I am not a fan of excessive eye candy, and I like very much all things that are easiest to teach to a non-geek.
On my amd64 rig with an ATi HD 4550 video card, when given my fonting improvements .pet, this Quirky gives the best fonting of any Puppy --well, at least, better than Lighthouse 5.00F, better than Wary 5.0, better than Puppy 4.31, and better than Lucid Puppy 5.2 --and far better than Ubuntu 10.10.
Fonting is also better than that on FatDog64 511, even though FD64 is also a t2 build like Quirky. Evidently the t2 build of X in Quirky, as woof produced it as of last September 5, is absolutely perfect --better than FatDog, better than Wary. At least, when used with a reasonably modern ATi card.
But for compiling purposes I usually revert to Puppy 4.31, for the sake of reasonably broad compatibility.
Mrs. Speak's computer has MacPup 511, which is just Lucid Puppy 5.11 plus Enlightenment e17, because e17 has proven to be the easiest Linux window manager for her to handle.
This may change though, as I plan to compile qvwm, a Windows 98 clone, soon. I still think that Windows 98 was and remains the pinnacle of desktop window manager evolution, because I am not a fan of excessive eye candy, and I like very much all things that are easiest to teach to a non-geek.
I use Wary with Wine. Most of my existing Windows PortableApps, including SMPlayer, Scribus, Softmaker, and Miranda IM, work just fine with a single click.
I prefer the XFCE4 file manager, but only as configured by forum member gray. But now I am getting to like XFE (different than XFCE) --really nice. It would be interesting to see what qvwm does, but I still think XFE has more features.
For pre-USB20 computers (drivers are usually avaiable) it is really hard to beat 98SE with Kernelex 4.5 which also allows for a lot of XP programs and with great printer support. I made a compressed version of this 98SE which I always boot in RAM for enhanced security and speed.
For me, the puppy distro needs good font handling, good Wine support, and good bluetooth and wireless support (like Fluppy).
Getting very close...
SHS, thanks for the font tip...
I prefer the XFCE4 file manager, but only as configured by forum member gray. But now I am getting to like XFE (different than XFCE) --really nice. It would be interesting to see what qvwm does, but I still think XFE has more features.
For pre-USB20 computers (drivers are usually avaiable) it is really hard to beat 98SE with Kernelex 4.5 which also allows for a lot of XP programs and with great printer support. I made a compressed version of this 98SE which I always boot in RAM for enhanced security and speed.
For me, the puppy distro needs good font handling, good Wine support, and good bluetooth and wireless support (like Fluppy).
Getting very close...
SHS, thanks for the font tip...
Your post got my hopes up, so I downloaded Wine and all the dependencies Pet manager stipulated, and installed them. Then things went sideways. First, there was a popup about a missing dependency, but it got obscured by another popup, and when I tried to move the second to see the first, they both disappeared, then the pet manager crashed, and I had to kill it to see the desktop.JMX wrote:I use Wary with Wine. Most of my existing Windows PortableApps, including SMPlayer, Scribus, Softmaker, and Miranda IM, work just fine with a single click. ..
I then reopened pet manager to run an installation check that used to be available, but couldn't find it. So I don't know whether I've got Wine properly installed or not. I've got a bunch of tabs for it in my program menu, and looks like the clock works (whoopee!).
If so, I probably need to add another 64MB or so to my 3fs file, install Gimp for Windows and then the UFRAW plugin for it, so I can finally edit RAW files under Linux using Windows ports of two native Linux programs.
It makes me sick!
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