Lobsters anti-Puppy family - Cructacean rant

[Lobster]

When I first entered the land of the penguins.
I was lost. No longer a computer expert. The shame of it.
I could not not even burn an iso - I had to send off for them . . .
I came across the Puppy web site. Puppy did not seem a serious distro but the info on burning iso and the suggested burncdcc was very good.

I thought Puppy was cute but underpowered. The other bigger distros, Mandrake, Redhat, Suse, Debian and so on seemed to be what serious Linux users were involved with.

Now I find things are a little different. Yesterday I was running Debian from CD (with Knoppix) looking for a defragger and needed to remove the CD.
Open? No!
Eject? No way - you have to mount me first big boy. Pah! Just turned it off and put Puppy in.
This really is the Puppy difference. I can use it. Barry and GuestToo and our GNU Gurus do not look down on me despite my ignorance and inabilities (and strange fish fetish).

In fact I now realise that my instinct to support Puppy as much as I could for Linux Tmxxine (expected for release on mobile phones in 2008) was right. Puppy is the good stuff. I liked the energy and people involved.

Most Puppy Penguins really enjoy computers - I do.
G2 (GuestToo) always provided very clear instructions (often with screen shots) that helped me understand issues
The video tutorials I think are wonderful

My family have a different attitude.
From, "Kill all computers" to, "why doesn't it save my file?" Yes they thought Google Picassa was 'hard' because it did not save picture files in one format. PnG, gif or jpeg is something that means nothing. Don't know don't care.
Are they gonna use Puppy or Linux. No. Another more computer literate family member is getting a Mac - less hassle. Use Linux? "No way"

These family members are my test cases, what would make them use Linux or Puppy?

This: "Just works"

Perhaps some questions that I have heard about computers in general . . .
"Yes but when you press help why doesn't it help with what you are doing?" - ah - context sensitive help . . .
"Why isn't it connected?" Automatically to the Internet that is . . .
"Why can't I find my files?" - Ah a simple file structure
"Why is it so big?" Yep the screen resolution did not auto configure - tsk tsk
"Why doesn't it just print?" Wot no auto handshaking?

As we know Puppy is fun but some very unreasonable and demanding users may be arriving soon . . .

[aahhaaa]

Lobster- I'm running into the same thing. They have invested so much time in winders (without understanding it) just learning to send email or shop on eBay that they are absolutely phobic about anything that looks like learning.

Complicating it is a bizarre brand loyalty that has no basis in fact- Gateway, Dell, Sony; mostly because they had one tech session with somebody who deigned to explain one aspect of their machine in terms they could understand.

I've looked at a lot of other people's machines, mostly their frequent apps are email, browser, solitare, and smart-typewriter stuff.

I'd suggest this radical unlocking features approach, based on people's experience of game levels:

Level One: Desktop looks exactly like WindOS; except there is only one way to do anything- and anything is limited to email, browsing, and Solitare.

Level Two: Desktop allows replacing background pix and downloading from digital cameras. Also desktop Publishing

Level Three: Burning, ripping, & software updates.

Level Four: Multiple desktops, customizing, losing the M$ look...

Level Five: basic office & basic AV, adding hardware

etc Levels are onscreen as an accomplishment like in a game, but the learning is limited to one thing at a time laying a foundation.

An advantage Puppy has is that most people really don't understand Windows. Most distros give so many options they create the same "I'll never get this' impression.

Another is running on a familiar machine. We have nothing to lose but the fear itself.

A Mac less hassle? Really. Now that's brand loyalty.

[Alucard_the_dex]

=o Im so glad i Dug in and read this! I have a cuzin Whos My closest friend at the same time. Knowing he'd listen to me i told him about puppy all i got was a really? @.@ yes really I told him but he still hasn't used it! So i have been thinking what makes him not wanna use puppy? Lazyness? Lazyness in another sense of not wanting to learn how to use his computer all over again?

Then it kinda hit me, A windows Version of puppy! =o!! If i could make Puppy look like windows and work like windows (plz no hate on me) Then Maybe hed give it a shot!

So I chose to switch to Icewm And check out the Silver XP theme. Amazing! it was so close to windows yet had its puppy touch to making it look better. After awhile and alota help From Gleilz ive changed icons and the rox toolbar to resemble Windows. Im gonna Include a few things with it (soundtracks to halo 2 XD to push him more) and set up programs to work like windows for him.

Maybe just maybe if he likes it hell Enjoy making his puppy a puppy once more no longer a Puppy wearing a billgates mask. BUT even if not so At least he'd be using puppy no?

[jcagle]

I'm thinking about making a version of Grafpup that's similar to Mac OS X.

[Alucard_the_dex]

I bought a Imac not to long ago Really good deal from a thrift store. 500mhz 30 gig HD 128 Ram DVD rom and a extra 4 USB hub for 80$ American Nice eh>?

I didnt like it to much I coudlnt understand A damn thing or how it worked XD but i did like the look. Maybe ill find peace and harmony with your MAC Puppy.

[jcagle]

I'm no Mac expert, but I do know that under the hood it's similar to Linux (it has a BSD - type kernel, which Mac has made open source). As you understand Linux more, you may understand mac a bit more too.

The GUI is quite different from Windows. Also, the way the operating system and its software is designed, it's designed for a one button mouse, instead of the two button mouse that most people used. But if you want more buttons, you can buy a mouse tha has more and use it on a Mac.

I've never actually installed software, or the operating system itself, so I don't know how easy that is. But the OS itself is very easy and at school I've never had a problem with the OS crashing. They're very reliable systems.

Anyway if you become familiar enough with Linux, you may want to try one of the Linux distros for mac, such as Yellow Dog Linux.

[Alucard_the_dex]

I should try a Distro for it, Such a waste just Becuase i cant understand the os no?

[Lobster]

I have a plan. We are having a new shower installed and I may install stereo waterproof speakers. Anyone know of any? These will be plugged into Puppy and I will use sublimals embedded in the music.

"You like Puppy Linux"
"Puppy Linux is more fun"

. . . as my family have been hypnotised by MS marketing - strong counter measures are required . . .

Could this work?

[Sage]

I think you can get waterproof speakers from cpc.co.uk - oh, yes!! You can already get shower radios and shower CD players. But it may be better to embed them in the ceiling between the joists. Waterproof keyboards are easy. The monitor goes into the wall behind a toughened glass screen. Then all you need is the little art-to-sound app that I recommended to PG....
Personally, I'm not in the shower long enough - cost of water.

[Pizzasgood]

You might as well add a garbage disposal in the drain, set up a refrigerator and oven in arm's reach, increase the water pressure, and change your first name to Cosmo (if it isn't already).

[dvw86]

Macs really are less of a hassle than Linux. You plug in a web cam and it just works. You plug in a printer and it just works. You plug in an external CD burner and it just works. You plug in a.....well you get the idea. Macs ship with a lot of drivers. The default OS X Tiger instal takes about 10 gigs though, so there is a trade off for space for all the extra software. I went from Windows to Macs to Linux. The reason I started using Linux was because the Mac was so easy to use that I got board with it and wanted to learn more about computers. I still like and use Macs, but I really enjoy using Linux as well.

[Nathan F]

A lot of what I've been trying to do this last year just involves showing people that Linux can compete with the mac for design and graphics work. What they've always had, and why so many graphic artists love them so much, is a complete workflow without any gaps and excellent support and stability. We've got piece for piece almost all of the same or equivelent tools available for Linux but up till now I still haven't seen them all put together in a cohesive fashion. Almost all distros include the Gimp. A much smaller percentage have tools to download photos from your camera. I may be wrong but I think I made Grafpup the first to have RAW photo decoding and color management by default. This is elementary stuff if you do that kind of work and shouldn't be a lot to ask.

Puppy is the perfect base for it. By keeping everything small and in memory the graphics apps get an unbelievable boost in performance, and Grafpup is literally the fastest media oriented distro that anyone has ever seen. It completely runs circles around a mac in that regard as well, if you compare equivelent hardware. Give me a year or so and I might even port it over to ppc and amd64, and then watch out. Of course almost all of the innovation that makes it what it is came directly from Barry, and a lot of other people have made great contributions as well.

But does all this really matter to most people? I gave a disk to a friend and he never ran it because of the fact that it can't write to ntfs. Another guy was using a usb network adaptor and just didn't want to try it if he might have to do some tinkering. A large portion of the Linux community just plain scoffs at anything Puppy related because they are under the impression that running as root will automatically frag everything.

But I'm not discouraged, these people just don't get it (yet). For those who do just keep enjoying a hassle free, fast, safe, and incredibly productive OS and let the rest of the world play catch up.

Nathan

[Auda]

A large portion of the Linux community just plain scoffs at anything Puppy related because they are under the impression that running as root will automatically frag everything.

It's a worry to me as well. Some of the windows uses I have tried to get using puppy also dont like the non xp-ish-ness of not logging in with your own name " ....so what stops my husband reading my emails ? " um nothing "well thats no good is it, in outlook he cant..." the reality isnt important its the impression that counts.

Maybe running from a cd its not so important, but for a HD install or a multi session cd/dvd I think its an area that needs looking at.

Auda

[Pizzasgood]

If all they want is the impression of security, set them up with the encrypted pupfile (availible through the boot parameters). It asks for a password, but isn't very secure because it only uses XOR encryption (but the Windows "users" don't know that...). In fact, it gives an even better feeling of security because it asks before it boots all the way up and is still way back at the console.

There's also been talk of remastering a Puppy that asks you for a login name and password. Then it would use the name to specify the pupfile (pup$NAME1, pup$NAME2, etc.) and the password to access it through the XOR encryption. I was actually going to do that, but I've had to abandon the idea due to lack of time.

What would be even better is if somebody who knew something about encryption (not me, I'm just repeating info others supplied) set it up to use something stronger while they were in there.

[Nathan F]

Actually, I had mine running X as a non priviledged user pretty well for a while. It could be done if someone really wanted to do so. You mainly have to play with file permissions.

Nathan

[sunburnt]

Same for me & my family, they don't mind Puppy so much as WinSnows has all the games.
Need to break that monopoly that uncle Bill has hanging over our heads.

The main thing they say is the same problem I had coming to Linux, the file system display method.
The kids can't find the Music dir., or navagate to the download dir., & the wife can't find the camera pics.

I solved the problem awhile back by mounting the drive partitions on: /A, /B, /C, /D, etc.
This was close enough to Win. that then they had no problem finding their way around.

To make a "Win. like" Puppy this would solve alot of the resistance to something new.

Most of the apps. are pretty decent, the only part of some of them that's weard is the file browser dialogs.
This isn't as easy to fix, but for the common apps. that need it maybe something could be done.

[Sage]

It simply isn't true, sunnie, that Sinflows has all the games. Sounds as if you haven't yet discovered the monumental efforts of the regional administration of the Extramadura, Spain? GNU/LinEx has got it all - a new version appeared last week (cf. DistroWatch).
And, as my mulitple posting fiasco indicated, Mandriva One Live CD has TuxRacer and FlightGear. [Report to the headmaster that boy at the back who is smirking....].

[sunburnt]

I agree, it's the kids... they play: Pod Racer, Jedi Outcast, Delta Force, Sims2, Monster Trucks, etc.
I play Quake 3 & I'm going to try Reactor Quake (I think that's the name), I need to set it all up on Puppy.

I'll have a look at LinEx & see what your talking about!

[Sage]

Quake and Doom are available for Linux??
Are you a really late bird, sunnie?! My version of sunclock shows that the terminator is still only half way across the water! Way to go to Phoenix...

[Lobster]

My sister said today, "Puppy is a Dog" - well OK that is true but being a dog has negative weight. Mind you she also says, "Kill all computers". I am surrounded by Linux Luddites . . .