how do i use terminal?

[stu90]

I know what you mean. The problem is conflicting libs in PETs. I think it's a very bad idea to include dependences in PETs because it causes dependency hell . I have too unpack all the PETs I use. Due to the setup I use but also because if I don't I end up with a mucked up system .

Having all the libs separate maybe preferable but with the limitations of one at a time .pet install / uninstall and the extra time it would take to package all libs as separate .pets would it be practical outside of applications that only require one or two dependencies.

[Béèm]

I know what you mean. The problem is conflicting libs in PETs. I think it's a very bad idea to include dependences in PETs because it causes dependency hell . I have too unpack all the PETs I use. Due to the setup I use but also because if I don't I end up with a mucked up system .

Having all the libs separate maybe preferable but with the limitations of one at a time .pet install / uninstall and the extra time it would take to package all libs as separate .pets would it be practical outside of applications that only require one or two dependencies.

There could be a solution at this 'dependency hell'.
As indeed including all libraries would grow the base sfs to an unacceptable extend, the libraries could be all put in a sfs which is loaded at boot time.
Pet's could be smaller as the could rely on this sfs.

[Ian]

Bruce B

In reply to your post:

Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:24 pm

In the beginning for me there DOS. Then there was Unix. Things went like
this / \ or was that \/ ?

go back to your knowledge base and find out where and when Unix came from and where and when DOS came from.

I'll give you a clue 1970's Bell Labs, AT & T.

[ICPUG]

That's why I stick to making Roxapps that use squashfs. The program and all its dependencies are entirely self-contained and accessible via their own mount point. Keeps the system as clean as possible and removes any links or directories it has to copy to there as well.

Where do you host them?

Do you run out of loop devices?

~

This is the power of the sfs - PupGeek is a smart cookie. This is a powerful feature of Puppy and really ought to be used more.

Not sure about the query regarding the hosting of sfs. If you mean on your own machine then you stick them in /mnt/home or if you have a frugal install you can put them in the puppy directory.

As to running out of loop devices that depends.

The basic Puppy has a limited supply but some Puppies have extended that supply. I believe Lighthouse Pup has quite a few loop devices and of course its Mariner and other options are just sfs files.

The number of loop devices do not matter at all if you use an 'on-the-fly' SFS tool. There are a few of these now.

JRBs SFS linker doesn't use a loop device at all.

I think Shinobar's tool uses one loop device per sfs running but I am guessing.

Seaside's SfsEXE tool is another approach but probably more suited to those who fly by the seat of their pants.

If we ever got a rock solid on the fly sfs tool we would have a Linux installer method to rival - nay, surpass - that with Windows and be just as easy to use.

[Bruce B]

Bruce B
In the beginning for me there DOS. Then there was Unix. Things went like
this / \ or was that \/ ?

go back to your knowledge base and find out where and when Unix came from and where and when DOS came from.

I'll give you a clue 1970's Bell Labs, AT & T.

I thought it was earlier than that. I was being sarcastic for all who think
Microsoft is the de facto standard. The innovator of innovators. Lest I burst
bubbles in that post.

~

[RetroTechGuy]

Why do you assume that Puppy works like another operating system?

Because he has used only Ubuntu and thinks all Linux is similar to this windows-mimic-distro

Puppy does not have an automatic update/upgrade mechanism for Puppy itself.

for good reasons. Puppians prefer work on pc instead of upgrading furiouslywithout really using the machine, if not, after an upgrade and another

so, there are two kind of people:

- users
- upgraders

Love it Dingo!

What I love about Puppy is that it works right out of the box. Boot it up, set up the network and be browsing in mere minutes. If you save to a flash drive, you can take your CD and flash drive, and not even worry about a computer. At some point one should consider making the flash bootable, but it is no crisis, as the CD boot eliminates the need to even learn that much.

My observation of computer users is that they really don't need a computer, they need a smart typewriter and a web browser (since they may wish to write a document, and many/most do their email through web-mail systems). Puppy can fill that role perfectly, while running on the oldest of the old computers. Meanwhile, Micro$oft has convinced them that if they don't have a Windows 7 machine, with 8 GB of RAM, they can't write a simple document or browse the web. Pure silliness...

As for using terminals, I use them all the time (and almost none of that for upgrading). I have my favorite command line editor (the smallest member of the Emacs family), my Fortran compiler, and of course I run the code that I write from the command line. I have a few other script programs, that do various operations (converting vids, shrinking photos, etc). But most don't need it at all...

[RetroTechGuy]

so, after installing apps, i have a list of missing dependences, is there no way to fix through terminal? what is the point of terminal? seems pretty redundant.

Why can't you fix it through the command window?

Here's how I install (generally smaller) Debian packages into Puppy.

1) Back up my pupsave (boot to RAM, and copy it to a new name)

2) Install the main .deb package.

3) Run the program from the command line, and note missing dependencies.

4) Install the dependency package, then goto command "3)".

5) Note that it works, or that decide that the dependencies are too many for a reasonable chance of making it work (I find that many work).

6) Make a new backup of my Pupsave, with the new programs installed.

7) Make a folder in /mnt/home/puppy520/ and store all the .debs needed for the package together, in case I want to rebuild my Pupsave in the future.

[PupGeek]

That's why I stick to making Roxapps that use squashfs. The program and all its dependencies are entirely self-contained and accessible via their own mount point. Keeps the system as clean as possible and removes any links or directories it has to copy to there as well.

Where do you host them?

Do you run out of loop devices?

~

I host them here
I have roxapps for Puppy 4.2 and for Puppy Studio 3.2 .

I have never run out of loop devices, I assume, because the AppRun script unmounts the loop device and removes the mount point when the program is closed. It also removes any links or directories it had to create or copy into your system directories as well.

Each AppRun script includes:

Code: Select all

...
mkdir <MountPoint>
mount -t squashfs -o loop <Path/To/SfsFile> <MountPoint>

...                    #Other commands
...                    #necessary to
...                    #run program
...                    #and clean up mess when done.

umount <MountPoint>
rmdir <MountPoint>

Bruce, if you download one of my roxapps, I know you can figure out the script really quick.

[starhawk]

I've taken the unusual step of sending the OP a PM... I figure it's a little gentler than email proper, although he'll get an email note and maybe come by for some coffee

I hope that we can help straighten out his confusion.

[Bruce B]

Bruce, if you download one of my roxapps, I know you
can figure out the script really quick.

Thank you for the link and the vote of confidence.

In the earlier days, this is how we contributed packages. Wanting to do
my part, I started making roxapps. Then Barry came up with a new
system, the .pup file.

I ended my career as a packager. The idea being, I don't know what
changes the future holds. As history shows, the .pup system went
obsolete.

I also changed my system for installation. I open the package, inspect it,
and do a manual install.

Ultimately, most all installs get put into an sfs file. Some directly and some
moved from the pupsave to the extra sfs file.

The pupsave is used primarily as a data, scripts and configuration files
container. But not a place for for programs. And even at that it grows.

~

[PupGeek]

The real beauty of the .sfs roxapps is that, in theory, they can be stored outside of the pupsave file, on any filesystem, so long as there are no symlinks outside of the .sfs file. You can keep them anywhere, run them from anywhere, and move them anywhere and they will still work. And they don't make any persistent changes to your system (some of mine do, however install OpenGL drivers prior to running). Perfect for those who are worried about screwing up their savefile by installing new packages or resizing it. I started using it as a way of testing packages cannibalized from other livecd's but it worked so well, I decided to keep it that way. Oh, and the .sfs file is only mounted on demand, unmounted and removed when done. I think its the best way to package a program. In most cases, while running an instance of the program, you can go into the mount point, copy and paste each directory into your /usr (and maybe others) directory to install if you like. It gives you full inspectability, manual install, or "on-demand-install".

[howsitwork]

It sounds to me like you don't want to learn how to run your computer, you just want it to run itself for you. That's what Windows is for. If that is the case, then stick with Windows, because eventually, even Ubuntu is going to leave you having to actually figure something out.

i know how to run my computer, i know how to "figure something out on Ubuntu", and, given some sensible information, could figure out Puppy! but, given the hostile reaction of you users, think i'll pass.

[howsitwork]

From Ubuntu's System Requirements page:

However it might be worth looking further afield at distros such as Wolvix, sliTaz (slightly French) or in extreme cases Puppy.

Thanks for the ringing endorsement.
No wonder Ubuntu users come over here with attitudes.

HA! i arrived with an open mind and left because of the attitudes!!!!!!!

[howsitwork]

Why do you assume that Puppy works like another operating system?

Because he has used only Ubuntu and thinks all Linux is similar to this windows-mimic-distro

Puppy does not have an automatic update/upgrade mechanism for Puppy itself.

for good reasons. Puppians prefer work on pc instead of upgrading furiouslywithout really using the machine, if not, after an upgrade and another

so, there are two kind of people:

- users
- upgraders

correction-
installers-
users-

[howsitwork]

[quote="PupGeek"]Them idiots at Linux!!!!!! Can't even design an operating system properly!!!!! Where's the Product key for this Puppy Linux thing anyways?!?


Oh, and why doesn't it update itself? Or send me a Genuine Advantage? Forget this!!!! I'm gonna switch to Puppy Linux 7! I need as many viruses as I can get [/quote

WOW! the pup community really is very uninformed an yes, very sad. seems most of you know zero outside of puppy and are extremely ill informed.the only sensible statements are that Windows is crap!!

[PupGeek]

No, we are very informed, you are the one who came in here spouting off negativity about puppy because it didn't have apt-get. We gave you information on how to install new software. Not all distros use apt-get to install software, just those based on Debian (like Ubuntu). RPM-based distros (like Fedora and Suse) use Yum for theirs. Puppy uses Puppy package manager and quickpet as its main sources. You can also install software manually if you cannot find it using package manager or quickpet, but Its a much more involved process. That's not to say that its ill-advised, however.

If you wish to use Apt-get, feel free to download it from the ubuntu repos ( http://packages.ubuntu.com ). Keep in, mind, however, that may have dependencies that will not be resolved for you. You will have to do that yourself. If you try running it from the terminal, it will tell you any dependencies it is missing, one at a time. There may be a way to get it to list them all at once, but I do not know it. Maybe bruce can steer you in the right direction there, provided you ask him nicely enough. If you are using Lucid Pup, just get your packages from the lucid section of the repo. Apparently, nobody ever made a .pet out of Apt-get. We haven't had a need for it. Nobody is saying you can't be the one to do it. And it was because of your hostility, that it took you this long to receive an answer. Who knows? Had you been a bit less negative, maybe one of us would have been willing to make an Apt-get package for you, but no, you came in here already giving us a vote of no-confidence, so why should we have even tried?

[Béèm]

A year or two ago there has been an experimental apt-get pet for dpup.
Use the puppysearch link in my sig to find it.

[starhawk]

Hay guyz, he just wanted to know what language Terminal uses. Not what to do with it, just what language. That's all.

I think a few of us sorta fell down on the job here.

[PupGeek]

Its no different than other distro's terminals. It looks to me like its very close to BASIC if you want to use loops and conditions. Type 'help' for a list of native commands. You can execute programs from the terminal as well by typing the name of the executable file. a 'Command not found' error will result if that executable name is not found. It could be that it is not installed, or maybe exists in a directory outside of your system directories (/usr contains your system directories). If you know you have the executable and it is not in your system you can either move it to there or type the complete path to it and it should run. If it needs missing dependencies, it will let you know. Puppy is fully customizable.

Starhawk, he didn't say that in his OP, instead, he came in here ready to abandon puppy altogether. Also, I believe I had directed him to a thread that covers how to use a terminal. Had this been any other forum, the first reply might have actually been much worse than it was perceived to be. In any case, here is the link again.

Basic Shell Operation (how to use the terminal)

[Dewbie]

starhawk wrote:

I think a few of us sorta fell down on the job here.

Tolerating rudeness is not our job.