Hello All,
I interested in setting up a few computers for a home game room application in which each computer runs MAME (SDLMAME in Linux) and/or a jukebox program called DW Jukebox. In a nutshell I would like to use Puppy as an embedded operating system for these computers.
Now instead of a hard drive I would like to use a compact flash card as sort of a poor mans solid state drive. The choice of going with compact flash was ease of use, size, and of course no noise. Another somewhat obvious fact is that it is easy to pull the card out to make changes.
Ok, so I would like to use an IDE to Compact Flash adapter so the computer 'thinks' it has a hard drive connected to it.
Next I want to set up Puppy and my programs on it. Once running, I would like to set up the Compact Flash as a READ ONLY device. The reason for this is that I would like to prevent excessive writing to the compact flash drive. The reason for this is that Compact Flash cards have a finite number of times in which you can write to the card before you have memory failures. I am concerned about write operations that I don't know about that could constantly make changes to the system.
So all in all in a nutshell, I would like to setup a computer with a compact flash card and once it is set with my programs in place, I want to lock down the compact flash from writes.
That'll be all.
Thanx,
Geo
I would like to set up Puppy with programs on compact flash
Use Lupu 511. Lupu 525 has a bug where it won't boot a hard-drive-less computer (although it still works if you also have a Puppy CD in the CDROM).
Use the Universal Installer to install Puppy on the flash drive (this can be a fussy process, but stick with it). I would format it ext2 to eliminate journal writes if I were you.
Oh, I see you wanted CF, not a USB flash drive. Try the latter anyway, you might find it works for you. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about too many writes. Puppy is designed to be gentle with flash drives, it only updates them every 30 minutes and you can make that longer if you like.
Use the Universal Installer to install Puppy on the flash drive (this can be a fussy process, but stick with it). I would format it ext2 to eliminate journal writes if I were you.
Oh, I see you wanted CF, not a USB flash drive. Try the latter anyway, you might find it works for you. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about too many writes. Puppy is designed to be gentle with flash drives, it only updates them every 30 minutes and you can make that longer if you like.
This needs to be frugal installs of Puppy with a save file.
The big issue is how much memory is in these computers?
The newer Puppies need 256MB to work well without a swap file or partition.
Most programs actively write in the process of running.
If there is enough memory, it should write to memory only. If memory is low, it has to write to the storage media.
Try your idea on one of the computers and see what happens.
The big issue is how much memory is in these computers?
The newer Puppies need 256MB to work well without a swap file or partition.
Most programs actively write in the process of running.
If there is enough memory, it should write to memory only. If memory is low, it has to write to the storage media.
Try your idea on one of the computers and see what happens.
I think it is a medium difficult task to find all programs/apps/scripts , that need write access somewhere .
USB installs write to tmpfs in RAM before changes get merged onto the USB .
The default merge time is configurable at Menu>System>Eventmanager and there is the "Save Icon" on the desktop at USB installs .
There had been suggestions about forcing an USB-PUPMODE for HD installs at the "grub kernel line" , "initrd.gz" or "/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit" , which I can't remember exactly anymore .
USB installs write to tmpfs in RAM before changes get merged onto the USB .
The default merge time is configurable at Menu>System>Eventmanager and there is the "Save Icon" on the desktop at USB installs .
There had been suggestions about forcing an USB-PUPMODE for HD installs at the "grub kernel line" , "initrd.gz" or "/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit" , which I can't remember exactly anymore .
I would like to set up Puppy with programs on compact flash
Hi jukingeo,
Used this technique late '09 and into '10 to build webservers
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?&t=43285
- We are moving so not able to supply a lot of details, but my posts of that work era, although somewhat embarassing ;), resulted in successful Puppy CF servers. Actual web files were all on usb
(as an aside, also have had chopped xp and 98 on CF as servers http://www.mdgx.com/9s2m/ )
Note: some older usb devices (around 128 to 512 meg) can actually be Fat 32 formatted and will be recognised as a harddrive, HP had a utility to do this. XP installed on Fat 32, will sometimes accomplish this also. Some older Puppy 3.01 or so with Partition mangers would work too
Best of luck
jay
Used this technique late '09 and into '10 to build webservers
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?&t=43285
- We are moving so not able to supply a lot of details, but my posts of that work era, although somewhat embarassing ;), resulted in successful Puppy CF servers. Actual web files were all on usb
(as an aside, also have had chopped xp and 98 on CF as servers http://www.mdgx.com/9s2m/ )
Note: some older usb devices (around 128 to 512 meg) can actually be Fat 32 formatted and will be recognised as a harddrive, HP had a utility to do this. XP installed on Fat 32, will sometimes accomplish this also. Some older Puppy 3.01 or so with Partition mangers would work too
Best of luck
jay
Re: I would like to set up Puppy with programs on compact flash
What's Lupu for?PaulBx1 wrote:Use Lupu 511. Lupu 525 has a bug where it won't boot a hard-drive-less computer (although it still works if you also have a Puppy CD in the CDROM).
What do you mean by fussy?Use the Universal Installer to install Puppy on the flash drive (this can be a fussy process, but stick with it). I would format it ext2 to eliminate journal writes if I were you.
Generally I would like to set it up to be much like a Live-CD but that runs off a Compact Flash. I am really aiming close to '0' writes as possible. Most of the applications I am using, once set up, really do not have to be changed.Oh, I see you wanted CF, not a USB flash drive. Try the latter anyway, you might find it works for you. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about too many writes. Puppy is designed to be gentle with flash drives, it only updates them every 30 minutes and you can make that longer if you like.
I did kind of figure out that I need to do a frugal install, but going about it is another matter. As it stands my test bed computer is sitting at 256meg, but I am going to update that soon. As for the actual application computers, they are Intel Atom based with on board sound & video and I intend to set them up with about 2 - 4gig of ram.bigpup wrote:This needs to be frugal installs of Puppy with a save file.
The big issue is how much memory is in these computers?
The newer Puppies need 256MB to work well without a swap file or partition.
Duly noted. However, most of the programs that I intend to use, such as MAME and DWJukebox do not write to drive. Pretty much most of the programs are of the 'playback' variety in which they get a file and 'play' the contents.Most programs actively write in the process of running.
I have already tested the nature of the programs using a special modified version of Windows XP in which I have shut down the writes to the Compact Flash. The thing is I want to do something similar with Linux.
Well, what I could do (if need be), is use a USB pendrive to store the necessary save data. This way the wear and tear is on an inexpensive USB pendrive, and not the critical OS and programs located on the CF.If there is enough memory, it should write to memory only. If memory is low, it has to write to the storage media.
Try your idea on one of the computers and see what happens.
With Windows XPe (embedded), there is a program called Enhanced Write Filter (EWF) that forces all writes to ram, when it is enabled. Upon computer shut down these writes are tossed out. The feature is easily disable-able in the event you do want to make changes.Karl Godt wrote:I think it is a medium difficult task to find all programs/apps/scripts , that need write access somewhere .
In terms of Linux, I know that most distributions boot off a Live-CD. When you use a Live CD, unless you specify a save file, all changes are discarded upon computer shut down.
This is essentially what I am looking for. Granted, a Live-CD is an .iso, so it is harder to make changes to this system.
In another forum a fellow mentioned this tmpfs before. Now if it writes changes to ram, isn't there a program that you implement to turn the write feature off and discard the settings on shutdown? Also if you make changes could you turn the write feature back on? If so, then this would do essentially what EWF does for Windows XP.USB installs write to tmpfs in RAM before changes get merged onto the USB .
Could you interrupt this time altogether so it never writes?The default merge time is configurable at Menu>System>Eventmanager and there is the "Save Icon" on the desktop at USB installs .
Yeah, unfortunately I am not a Linux 'power user' so I have no idea what you just said thereThere had been suggestions about forcing an USB-PUPMODE for HD installs at the "grub kernel line" , "initrd.gz" or "/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit" , which I can't remember exactly anymore .
.Ok, I am not looking to set up a server. Actually I am looking to set up duplicate motherboards that are used for a specific application such as MAME inside of an arcade cabinet, a program called DWJukebox to use on a computer inside of a jukebox cabinet. Still another program called Vixen to play back programs for audio/lighting synchronization to run a holiday lighting display.efiguy wrote:Hi jukingeo,
Used this technique late '09 and into '10 to build webservers
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?&t=43285
Pretty much stuff like that. Pretty much all setups have to be small and compact. I have chosen a small Intel ITX based motherboard that needs no fan as my 'base' computer. These motherboards have com ports, parallel ports, USB ports, built in audio and video. Topping this off with a small Compact Flash as a hard drive nicely completes the package.
While not my application, I do still find it interesting that you set up a server on a Compact Flash.- We are moving so not able to supply a lot of details, but my posts of that work era, although somewhat embarassing, resulted in successful Puppy CF servers. Actual web files were all on usb
(as an aside, also have had chopped xp and 98 on CF as servers http://www.mdgx.com/9s2m/ )
As I indicated above, I did my initial tests with using Compact Flash as a hard drive within Windows XP. Since I don't have a copy of Windows XPEmbedded, I kind of made my own. I started with Windows XP Professional and hacked this down with nLite to give me what I need. Then I added a program called Enhanced Write Filter (EWF) to set up the OS to prevent writes to the hard drive.
In a nutshell I got it to work great, BUT now I want to know if I can do it with Linux.
To start things off, I knew I needed an OS with a small footprint...one that I know could be run Live. Puppy was one of the first that came to mind.
Oh, I don't have any memory stick THAT old laying around. I began to start using USB memory sticks when they were around the 1gig to 2gig mark. Now I mostly have 4gig and 8gig devices.Note: some older usb devices (around 128 to 512 meg) can actually be Fat 32 formatted and will be recognised as a harddrive, HP had a utility to do this. XP installed on Fat 32, will sometimes accomplish this also. Some older Puppy 3.01 or so with Partition mangers would work too
Best of luck
jay
Now on a side note. If Puppy DOES need to have a save file, I did think about perhaps using one of my old 2gig USB memory sticks (pendrive) to put a save file on it. This would save wear and tear on the compact flash. If the USB drive wore out, it wouldn't be a big deal, whereas if I blow the compact flash, I would have to set it all up again.
Thanx,
Geo
Maybe this info will help you.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=60302
If you try your idea with one of your computers you could see what would happen.
You can play what if all day long, but will never know until you do it.
When you start trying to do it for real. If there are any problems. Post them here and we can try to help you work them out.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=60302
If you try your idea with one of your computers you could see what would happen.
You can play what if all day long, but will never know until you do it.
When you start trying to do it for real. If there are any problems. Post them here and we can try to help you work them out.
I would like to set up Puppy with programs on compact flash
Hi jukingeo
- Thanks for the tip on (Enhanced Write Filter (EWF) ) Is it easy to find or is it a third party purchase?
- I gave the link to servers as most of my problems was dealing with hard drives with Puppy not installing
- I've had really good success with this Puppy
- It's a few years old - But please look at it for a candidate as a build substrate
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40477
-0ne place it can be found there are others I think Puppyarcade may have used Turbopup as a base
http://www.sendspace.com/file/6nmy5c
Thanks,
Jay
- Thanks for the tip on (Enhanced Write Filter (EWF) ) Is it easy to find or is it a third party purchase?
- I gave the link to servers as most of my problems was dealing with hard drives with Puppy not installing
- I've had really good success with this Puppy
- It's a few years old - But please look at it for a candidate as a build substrate
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40477
-0ne place it can be found there are others I think Puppyarcade may have used Turbopup as a base
http://www.sendspace.com/file/6nmy5c
Thanks,
Jay
Re: I would like to set up Puppy with programs on compact flash
Wow! Yeah, probably, I will read through that later on.bigpup wrote:Maybe this info will help you.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=60302
Who's playing 'what if'. I just take my time to gather the necessary information first before diving in and doing something stupid (which is very easy to do in the world of computers).If you try your idea with one of your computers you could see what would happen.
You can play what if all day long, but will never know until you do it.
When you start trying to do it for real. If there are any problems. Post them here and we can try to help you work them out.
No, you don't have to purchase it. Here this document tells all:efiguy wrote:Hi jukingeo
- Thanks for the tip on (Enhanced Write Filter (EWF) ) Is it easy to find or is it a third party purchase?
http://www.alix-box.info/wiki/index.php ... Windows_XP
If you are into embedded applications as I am, then you also want to run a program called nLite on your Windows installation disk BEFORE installing Windows on a new computer. nLite will allow you to remove all of the extra stuff out of Windows that you do not need. Once you get it all set up on the new machine, THEN you install EWF as outlined above. Basically (albeit loosely) this will give you a customized version of Windows XP Embedded.
I had tried Puppy Arcade, but it really didn't work properly. It was slow (believe it or not), but more so, I was put off with the front end. It just seemed to "Windows" like for an arcade machine. Basically when I put an arcade machine together, I would like it to look the part. So the OS interface has to go completely.- I gave the link to servers as most of my problems was dealing with hard drives with Puppy not installing
- I've had really good success with this Puppy
- It's a few years old - But please look at it for a candidate as a build substrate
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40477
-0ne place it can be found there are others I think Puppyarcade may have used Turbopup as a base
http://www.sendspace.com/file/6nmy5c
Thanks,
Jay
Anyway, I will check that link out a bit later on.
Thanx,
Geo
To get more knowledge about pupmodes , you can open initrd.gz and look into the file /init . Search for 'initrd' or 'initrd.gz' in the 'Howto Section'Yeah, unfortunately I am not a Linux 'power user' so I have no idea what you just said there .
Roghly it uses
Code: Select all
mkdir NEWDIR && gunzip initrd.gz && cat initrd | cpio -i -d > ./NEWDIRUnfortunately I am running Puppy 80% full installs , 19% frugal installed to HD and 1% from USB to boot my netbook once a while .Could you interrupt this time altogether so it never writes?
keywords maybe 'snapmergepuppy' or 'snapmerge' and
/usr/sbin/eventmanager
/usr/sbin/snapmergepuppy
/sbin/pup_event_frontend_d
/etc/rc.d/rc.shutdown
Update:
Hello All,
Last night I tried to install Puppy Wary 5.1.1 onto one of my 8gig Compact Flash cards. I did try to do a frugal install and I put the save file on a 4gig PenDrive.
However, being that my test machine is sitting right at 256meg, Puppy seemed to balk at that and requested that I put a "backup" wary_511.sfs save file on the 'hard drive'", which would be the compact flash. So I said, "Ok".
Overall it loads up pretty fast (but it seems slower than the set up I have on the Windows XP Compact Flash. I found that odd).
Upon shut down I see this message:
sda mounted directly on top layer saving to sda1
With this message I see A LOT of activity on the the hdd light for the Compact Flash (upon shut down). I guess it seems like it is writing the save file to the Compact Flash instead of the USB pendrive. This is what I DON'T want.
So I tried another experiment to verify the above. When I shut down the computer this afternoon, I pulled the USB pendrive out and started the computer up. The computer mentioned this pup save 'layer' again, and it booted right up without the USB pendrive in place. Yup, Puppy must be then saving to the Compact Flash.
Ok, so now I am seeing this as a problem because Puppy seems to not like the fact that I only have 256meg on board and instead of writing to the USB pendrive, it is writing to the Compact Flash.
I guess this install of Puppy 5.1.1 is a 'bust' since it is actually doing the opposite of what I want.
So in a nutshell I guess I can't continue to test Puppy until I get more RAM for my computer.
I know that you could run Puppy off of a CD-Rom and put the save file on a USB Pendrive, but then I have to put a big bulky CD-Rom into my set up. Kind of defeats what I would like to do with my project.
Another alternative that might work is to ditch the Compact Flash and run an iso image off of the USB drive. This way Puppy will 'think' that it is booting from a CD-Rom and just put a pupsave file on the same Pendrive.
I am curious if others might chime in with some other ideas.
Thank You,
Geo
Last night I tried to install Puppy Wary 5.1.1 onto one of my 8gig Compact Flash cards. I did try to do a frugal install and I put the save file on a 4gig PenDrive.
However, being that my test machine is sitting right at 256meg, Puppy seemed to balk at that and requested that I put a "backup" wary_511.sfs save file on the 'hard drive'", which would be the compact flash. So I said, "Ok".
Overall it loads up pretty fast (but it seems slower than the set up I have on the Windows XP Compact Flash. I found that odd).
Upon shut down I see this message:
sda mounted directly on top layer saving to sda1
With this message I see A LOT of activity on the the hdd light for the Compact Flash (upon shut down). I guess it seems like it is writing the save file to the Compact Flash instead of the USB pendrive. This is what I DON'T want.
So I tried another experiment to verify the above. When I shut down the computer this afternoon, I pulled the USB pendrive out and started the computer up. The computer mentioned this pup save 'layer' again, and it booted right up without the USB pendrive in place. Yup, Puppy must be then saving to the Compact Flash.
Ok, so now I am seeing this as a problem because Puppy seems to not like the fact that I only have 256meg on board and instead of writing to the USB pendrive, it is writing to the Compact Flash.
I guess this install of Puppy 5.1.1 is a 'bust' since it is actually doing the opposite of what I want.
So in a nutshell I guess I can't continue to test Puppy until I get more RAM for my computer.
I know that you could run Puppy off of a CD-Rom and put the save file on a USB Pendrive, but then I have to put a big bulky CD-Rom into my set up. Kind of defeats what I would like to do with my project.
Another alternative that might work is to ditch the Compact Flash and run an iso image off of the USB drive. This way Puppy will 'think' that it is booting from a CD-Rom and just put a pupsave file on the same Pendrive.
I am curious if others might chime in with some other ideas.
Thank You,
Geo
I would like to set up Puppy with programs on compact flash
Hi jukingeo,
- Thank you for the excellent link (EWF)
Not being too adventurous ;) decided to try a Lupu-Lucid recent derivative named RexBang, I am using a 128mb savefile, and 200mb swap file on 300GL ibm 256mb ram - puppy pfix=nocopy - on cdboot. there are many programs installed and I renamed and changed permissions on conky, klogd, cups, (print) daemon, added Oprera 10 runs as 9.26. Base load uses about 40mb of ram, programs are "snappy" once loaded and I am now using this pc as a Genera surf, mail and banking tool- much superior to w98 on C:/ for this.
One feature is package removal tools
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=66939
Also, one might use a stripped boot system (w/swapfile) on C: 4gCF and place main programs on secondary controller as D: 8gCF
Thanks again
jay
- Thank you for the excellent link (EWF)
Not being too adventurous ;) decided to try a Lupu-Lucid recent derivative named RexBang, I am using a 128mb savefile, and 200mb swap file on 300GL ibm 256mb ram - puppy pfix=nocopy - on cdboot. there are many programs installed and I renamed and changed permissions on conky, klogd, cups, (print) daemon, added Oprera 10 runs as 9.26. Base load uses about 40mb of ram, programs are "snappy" once loaded and I am now using this pc as a Genera surf, mail and banking tool- much superior to w98 on C:/ for this.
One feature is package removal tools
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=66939
Also, one might use a stripped boot system (w/swapfile) on C: 4gCF and place main programs on secondary controller as D: 8gCF
Thanks again
jay
Re: I would like to set up Puppy with programs on compact flash
You are welcomeefiguy wrote:Hi jukingeo,
- Thank you for the excellent link (EWF)
.There is that Lupu again. Is that another term for Puppy? Or is that an entirely different OS?Not being too adventurous
Edit: I tried a search for Lupu-Lucid and I get the wikka Puppy Linux 5.2.
So basically this makes a smaller version of Puppy that takes up less than the 256mb of RAM? Kind of like nLite for Windows XP?recent derivative named RexBang, I am using a 128mb savefile, and 200mb swap file on 300GL ibm 256mb ram - puppy pfix=nocopy - on cdboot. there are many programs installed and I renamed and changed permissions on conky, klogd, cups, (print) daemon, added Oprera 10 runs as 9.26. Base load uses about 40mb of ram, programs are "snappy" once loaded and I am now using this pc as a Genera surf, mail and banking tool- much superior to w98 on C:/ for this.
One feature is package removal tools
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=66939
Do you have to use a swapfile? With the setup I have for Windows XP and EWF, I have the swapfile turned off. I figured a swapfile would be a bad thing on a compact flash card.Also, one might use a stripped boot system (w/swapfile) on C: 4gCF and place main programs on secondary controller as D: 8gCF
Thanks again
As of now I still have Puppy Wary on the compact flash card, but as I mentioned earlier, it didn't like that I only had 256meg of ram and it requested a 'backup' on the 'hard drive'. Well, after pulling the memory stick (for testing purposes), it still booted up. It pretty much is backing up (writing) to the compact flash which is something I DIDN'T want to happen.
Anyways...I am going to wipe the card and try again.
Thanx,
Geo
Setting up Puppy again on Compact Flash: Frugal attempt Pt2
Hello all,
Ok, tonight I wiped the compact flash card and went back to reinstall Puppy 5.1.1 (Wary) on the compact flash.
Overall I followed the same steps before, except that when Puppy asked to save a 'backup' on my hard drive (which is the compact flash). I said "NO".
Ok, so moving along the install took fine and I set up the save file on a USB Pendrive. So all seemed to be well, but on reboot, Puppy once again balked at the low 256meg memory and ON IT'S OWN set up a copy of the save file on the hard drive. Another thing it did automatically (which I wasn't aware of the first time), is that it created a swap file on the compact flash card.
Needless to say, if this is the Frugal install, it certainly isn't acceptable for me. I know that with the save file AND now a swap file, I am going to get writes on that Compact Flash galore.
Ok, so now I have my thinking cap on and I have an idea. What if I set up Puppy the way I want it to run on a given systems, then "Package" that entire setup as a "Live-CD" .iso. The reason I put Live CD in quotes is that I wouldn't burn the .iso to a disk, but rather the Compact Flash. A Live CD setup usually is set up as read only by default, that is pretty much what I am after.
That is one idea. Now on the Installer for Puppy, I had noticed there wasn't a specific selection for "Full Install" or "Frugal Install". Instead there is a menu saying what you want to install to. USB came up a couple of times as choices, IDE/SATA was another, and the option I chose was CF: IDE SATA as this was the setup I had.
I am wondering if I should have chosen a different setting here. Some advice would be much appreciated.
Thank You,
Geo
Ok, tonight I wiped the compact flash card and went back to reinstall Puppy 5.1.1 (Wary) on the compact flash.
Overall I followed the same steps before, except that when Puppy asked to save a 'backup' on my hard drive (which is the compact flash). I said "NO".
Ok, so moving along the install took fine and I set up the save file on a USB Pendrive. So all seemed to be well, but on reboot, Puppy once again balked at the low 256meg memory and ON IT'S OWN set up a copy of the save file on the hard drive. Another thing it did automatically (which I wasn't aware of the first time), is that it created a swap file on the compact flash card.
Needless to say, if this is the Frugal install, it certainly isn't acceptable for me. I know that with the save file AND now a swap file, I am going to get writes on that Compact Flash galore.
Ok, so now I have my thinking cap on and I have an idea. What if I set up Puppy the way I want it to run on a given systems, then "Package" that entire setup as a "Live-CD" .iso. The reason I put Live CD in quotes is that I wouldn't burn the .iso to a disk, but rather the Compact Flash. A Live CD setup usually is set up as read only by default, that is pretty much what I am after.
That is one idea. Now on the Installer for Puppy, I had noticed there wasn't a specific selection for "Full Install" or "Frugal Install". Instead there is a menu saying what you want to install to. USB came up a couple of times as choices, IDE/SATA was another, and the option I chose was CF: IDE SATA as this was the setup I had.
I am wondering if I should have chosen a different setting here. Some advice would be much appreciated.
Thank You,
Geo
I would like to set up Puppy with programs on compact flash
Hi jukingeo,
I too have had that form of problem with Lucid 525 and RexBang, beleive, it be a form of key debounce failure that if one isn't extremely "quik like fox" the program slides to another selection layer. Clearly this "Post End Program" is not as "bullet proof" as the older puppies.
And despite problems, it seems you are having success too
Have link where talked about USB, and will mention have used a CF camera for six years with same chip
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=65587
Quote:
- Two seperate security systems (memorex & Imation) have run 4 years with usb drives taking 350 average 85kb jpg snapshots over 24x7 (black roof summers-0deg winters) - reading, transfer delete selected w/verify and delete rest. Rough calculations place them at 850000 writes with as many extra reads.
- There is an interesting phenomena - many times shadows and clouds will cause the security systems to write something like +5000 files, they all appear in explorer, but only 500 or so will have data. The excess must be erased before the drive will accept new data. I am not sure if this is an XP artifact or a potential usb security risk as file name might be important clues during an undelete process, even without data.
EndQuote
I don't know what the ram impact required for games, but base system can be held to less than 40Mb, placing about 200 Mb for programs.
RexBang's swap file for me is untouched.
My personal take at this point, keep CF copies, close all programs before shutdown and writes are inconsequential
Jay
I too have had that form of problem with Lucid 525 and RexBang, beleive, it be a form of key debounce failure that if one isn't extremely "quik like fox" the program slides to another selection layer. Clearly this "Post End Program" is not as "bullet proof" as the older puppies.
And despite problems, it seems you are having success too
Have link where talked about USB, and will mention have used a CF camera for six years with same chip
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=65587
Quote:
- Two seperate security systems (memorex & Imation) have run 4 years with usb drives taking 350 average 85kb jpg snapshots over 24x7 (black roof summers-0deg winters) - reading, transfer delete selected w/verify and delete rest. Rough calculations place them at 850000 writes with as many extra reads.
- There is an interesting phenomena - many times shadows and clouds will cause the security systems to write something like +5000 files, they all appear in explorer, but only 500 or so will have data. The excess must be erased before the drive will accept new data. I am not sure if this is an XP artifact or a potential usb security risk as file name might be important clues during an undelete process, even without data.
EndQuote
I don't know what the ram impact required for games, but base system can be held to less than 40Mb, placing about 200 Mb for programs.
RexBang's swap file for me is untouched.
My personal take at this point, keep CF copies, close all programs before shutdown and writes are inconsequential
Jay
Re: I would like to set up Puppy with programs on compact flash
Hello Jay
In other words, it seemed like it reverted to a full installation rather than a frugal installation.
Now I have to buy more memory just to 'test' if Puppy will do what I want? I find this annoying in that I have a Windows XP setup (on another Compact Flash card) with EWF and it runs perfectly and does what I want with only the 256meg of ram on my test machine. However, that isn't the point. What I want to see now is if I can do it with Linux.
Puppy seemed like the highest candidate for what I would like to do considering it is designed to run from ram and run from a USB drive.
So clearly, I think I am choosing the wrong install option. Even though I am selecting what I have on my system, it is not setting itself up the way I intended.
BUT if you have a swap space or virtual ram on flash memory, that area will get erased and written too constantly. This also goes for programs that 'update' upon shut down. In cases like these, you would kill the flash memory fairly quickly.
If you think about it, a "standard" Windows XP system has many features that cause constant writing to the hard drive. Indexing is one of those features. The aforementioned swap file is another. Then everything gets saved on shutdown or reboot. I would think that the flash memory would wear out much faster in a case like this.
The same is true for the Jukebox program I have. It just reads music information of which I would put on an easily removable USB Pendrive. The main program would run off the Compact Flash.
Ok, moving right along, I came across this bit of information of which I found VERY interesting:
http://www.cianer.com/linux/81-read-onl ... -with-aufs
According to this, there is a way to set up the root as a read only partition. Reading further along it seems like you can set this up to have a behavior very similar to what EWF does in Windows XP.
Now the only thing that is stopping me from trying this out on my supposed full install of Puppy is that the documentation is for Ubuntu. I am not sure if this will work with Puppy or not. Perhaps you or someone else reading could chime in and let me know if this is possible.
If not then the next phase I was going to try was to put together my own live-iso of Puppy that would have everything I need pre-installed and set up. This way it would run like a Live-CD.
Thank You,
Geo
Double checking my compact flash, it looks like I have a full directory structure that would be in a full installation of Puppy. At first there were only a few files, but when it set itself up with this hard drive 'layer', now it appears like I have a full directory set up.efiguy wrote:Hi jukingeo,
I too have had that form of problem with Lucid 525 and RexBang, beleive, it be a form of key debounce failure that if one isn't extremely "quik like fox" the program slides to another selection layer. Clearly this "Post End Program" is not as "bullet proof" as the older puppies.
In other words, it seemed like it reverted to a full installation rather than a frugal installation.
Now I have to buy more memory just to 'test' if Puppy will do what I want? I find this annoying in that I have a Windows XP setup (on another Compact Flash card) with EWF and it runs perfectly and does what I want with only the 256meg of ram on my test machine. However, that isn't the point. What I want to see now is if I can do it with Linux.
Puppy seemed like the highest candidate for what I would like to do considering it is designed to run from ram and run from a USB drive.
So clearly, I think I am choosing the wrong install option. Even though I am selecting what I have on my system, it is not setting itself up the way I intended.
Yeah, I had success with the Windows XP variant of what I want to do, but thus-far I am not having the same luck with Puppy.And despite problems, it seems you are having success too
From what I read the 'damage' to flash memory happens when you erase and re-write data in a given area often. So if you are 'filling up' a Compact Flash with data, then that is better. So in an application such a a camera or audio player it takes a long time to fill up a compact flash card. Thus, I would gather that you could have the card for a very long time without major problems.Have link where talked about USB, and will mention have used a CF camera for six years with same chip
BUT if you have a swap space or virtual ram on flash memory, that area will get erased and written too constantly. This also goes for programs that 'update' upon shut down. In cases like these, you would kill the flash memory fairly quickly.
I would think that if you are using LARGE capacity flash memory that could be possible. Some of the better cards can be written to that many times easily. I wouldn't think that it is a function of time, but rather how much data is written/erased/and written to the Compact Flash.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=65587
Quote:
- Two seperate security systems (memorex & Imation) have run 4 years with usb drives taking 350 average 85kb jpg snapshots over 24x7 (black roof summers-0deg winters) - reading, transfer delete selected w/verify and delete rest. Rough calculations place them at 850000 writes with as many extra reads.
- There is an interesting phenomena - many times shadows and clouds will cause the security systems to write something like +5000 files, they all appear in explorer, but only 500 or so will have data. The excess must be erased before the drive will accept new data. I am not sure if this is an XP artifact or a potential usb security risk as file name might be important clues during an undelete process, even without data.
EndQuote
If you think about it, a "standard" Windows XP system has many features that cause constant writing to the hard drive. Indexing is one of those features. The aforementioned swap file is another. Then everything gets saved on shutdown or reboot. I would think that the flash memory would wear out much faster in a case like this.
An example of the game systems I would set up would be based on Mame which is Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. There is an entire following based on this program that spawned on a whole website based on people that build their own arcade machines for home game room use. As far as I know the program runs fully in ram. The only write back that I know of that the program does is to keep high scores. The high score feature is NOT automatically set up. This is something you would have to do. So that aside, MAME is essentially read-only.I don't know what the ram impact required for games, but base system can be held to less than 40Mb, placing about 200 Mb for programs.
RexBang's swap file for me is untouched.
My personal take at this point, keep CF copies, close all programs before shutdown and writes are inconsequential
Jay
The same is true for the Jukebox program I have. It just reads music information of which I would put on an easily removable USB Pendrive. The main program would run off the Compact Flash.
Ok, moving right along, I came across this bit of information of which I found VERY interesting:
http://www.cianer.com/linux/81-read-onl ... -with-aufs
According to this, there is a way to set up the root as a read only partition. Reading further along it seems like you can set this up to have a behavior very similar to what EWF does in Windows XP.
Now the only thing that is stopping me from trying this out on my supposed full install of Puppy is that the documentation is for Ubuntu. I am not sure if this will work with Puppy or not. Perhaps you or someone else reading could chime in and let me know if this is possible.
If not then the next phase I was going to try was to put together my own live-iso of Puppy that would have everything I need pre-installed and set up. This way it would run like a Live-CD.
Thank You,
Geo
this is a list of all the puppy boot parameters
I hope this helps you
http://pupweb.org/wikka/BootParms?show_comments=1
I hope this helps you
http://pupweb.org/wikka/BootParms?show_comments=1