ARM... Again... Any chance for Puppy on the 25 USD PC?
ARM... Again... Any chance for Puppy on the 25 USD PC?
Yes.. there are plenty of threads on ARM, and if I am not wrong, its possible to develop support for the ARM processor, but one of the problems are that they are not unified.
But if one takes a look at the soon to come "Tiny Mini" RasberryPi; it seems like they might have at least a cool piece of hardware and only one kind of a ARM processor to support.
I am not technical my self at this level, but it seems like a future kind of a gadget, that could be very useful. No comments really needed here, as I am not able to develop this my self, and as a humble person, I can only hope
http://www.raspberrypi.org/
But if one takes a look at the soon to come "Tiny Mini" RasberryPi; it seems like they might have at least a cool piece of hardware and only one kind of a ARM processor to support.
I am not technical my self at this level, but it seems like a future kind of a gadget, that could be very useful. No comments really needed here, as I am not able to develop this my self, and as a humble person, I can only hope
http://www.raspberrypi.org/
Can this be it? http://www.armedslack.org/darkcity wrote: is there an Arm version of Slack?
to answer my own question, here is an Arm version of Slack-
http://www.armedslack.org/doku.php?id=introduction
http://www.armedslack.org/doku.php?id=introduction
- Dougal
- Posts: 2502
- Joined: Wed 19 Oct 2005, 13:06
- Location: Hell more grotesque than any medieval woodcut
I replied to someone about this before (maybe in the PPC thread): the main problem (except for the difference in HW-detection etc.) would be getting the initrd stuff (statically) compiled for ARM and probably modifying the init script.
If someone were to get Barry one of these it might help, but that also depends on if he's interested at all...
If someone were to get Barry one of these it might help, but that also depends on if he's interested at all...
What's the ugliest part of your body?
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
But I think it's your mind
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
But I think it's your mind
QEMU can emulate an ARM board
http://wiki.qemu.org/Main_Page
Would it be possible to test initrd on this?
http://wiki.qemu.org/Main_Page
Would it be possible to test initrd on this?
Sorry for weighing in on this, and being such a non-expert...
Bit even I (the total noob!) got very close to completing the build of a working ARM-supported toolchain, using ttylinux..
If I remember correctly, the target system is a beagleboard, or similar.
I even edited the config and build scripts before I started, so that it downloaded and built versions of glibc, busybox, etc,
that are being used in Wary (I matched it as best I could).
But I think I messed things up, or at least the build script could do nearly every part, except 1 thing.. it could not build busybox correctly..
I could not find a busybox binary for beagleboard/ARM, so had to leave it there..
But my impression was that anyone with a bit of knowledge (unlike myself) could get the toolchain built, but as Dougal says, updating all the puppy scripts for ARM devices, and compiling all the bins needed by those scripts would be a huge job in itself.
Plus, I got thinking, which ARM devices are we talking about? Puppy cannot be expected to simply "work on ARM devices" ...
Which devices are we targeting? Cos I'd happily buy one of those RasberryPi things..
And... Just a thought... What would happen if Woof was run from inside the ARM toolchain?
I know a working ARM puppy would NOT be the result, but would it build most packages?
(that maybe a start!)
Bit even I (the total noob!) got very close to completing the build of a working ARM-supported toolchain, using ttylinux..
If I remember correctly, the target system is a beagleboard, or similar.
I even edited the config and build scripts before I started, so that it downloaded and built versions of glibc, busybox, etc,
that are being used in Wary (I matched it as best I could).
But I think I messed things up, or at least the build script could do nearly every part, except 1 thing.. it could not build busybox correctly..
I could not find a busybox binary for beagleboard/ARM, so had to leave it there..
But my impression was that anyone with a bit of knowledge (unlike myself) could get the toolchain built, but as Dougal says, updating all the puppy scripts for ARM devices, and compiling all the bins needed by those scripts would be a huge job in itself.
Plus, I got thinking, which ARM devices are we talking about? Puppy cannot be expected to simply "work on ARM devices" ...
Which devices are we targeting? Cos I'd happily buy one of those RasberryPi things..
And... Just a thought... What would happen if Woof was run from inside the ARM toolchain?
I know a working ARM puppy would NOT be the result, but would it build most packages?
(that maybe a start!)
[b][url=https://bit.ly/2KjtxoD]Pkg[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2U6dzxV]mdsh[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2G49OE8]Woofy[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/bzBU1]Akita[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/SO5ug]VLC-GTK[/url], [url=https://tiny.cc/c2hnfz]Search[/url][/b]
Yes, there is the ARM CPU to think about... But also the other hardware components which, altogether, make up the target device.darkcity wrote:true there are different ARM architectures, but I think the RasPi uses a standard modern variety. I would like a project at support that architecture, I can offer some help but I'm noob too.
yes many.do any of the linux distros supporting Arm use Busybox?
[b][url=https://bit.ly/2KjtxoD]Pkg[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2U6dzxV]mdsh[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2G49OE8]Woofy[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/bzBU1]Akita[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/SO5ug]VLC-GTK[/url], [url=https://tiny.cc/c2hnfz]Search[/url][/b]
To configure busybox for an alternate arch, you need to create the conf file by manually running 'make menuconfig' in the bbox sources -you need to setup options for the ARCH and the PATH to the cross-compiler you are using. Then copy the '.config' created into the sources during the (automated) build process.
Thanks for the info, I might have another go at it one day..amigo wrote:To configure busybox for an alternate arch, you need to create the conf file by manually running 'make menuconfig' in the bbox sources -you need to setup options for the ARCH and the PATH to the cross-compiler you are using. Then copy the '.config' created into the sources during the (automated) build process.
I thought hhe build script is supposed to handle all the ARCH stuff.. As far as I remember, all ttylinux builds scripts (for all the different archs available) are run inside the same toolchain, which you gotta chroot into, and those builscripts are themselves specific to the final arch you want (ARM, PPC, etc)..
[b][url=https://bit.ly/2KjtxoD]Pkg[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2U6dzxV]mdsh[/url], [url=https://bit.ly/2G49OE8]Woofy[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/bzBU1]Akita[/url], [url=http://goo.gl/SO5ug]VLC-GTK[/url], [url=https://tiny.cc/c2hnfz]Search[/url][/b]
- Dougal
- Posts: 2502
- Joined: Wed 19 Oct 2005, 13:06
- Location: Hell more grotesque than any medieval woodcut
You don't really need to compile a toolchain:sc0ttman wrote:Sorry for weighing in on this, and being such a non-expert...
Bit even I (the total noob!) got very close to completing the build of a working ARM-supported toolchain, using ttylinux..
- for the main filesystem, you have the distros like Ubuntu and Fedora etc. or can even use something like Open Embedded
- for the initrd you can just download a uClibc filesystem image from Rob Landley and compile in it what you want (you extract it, mount it and then chroot into it).
The problem is that there are a few puppy-specific binary programs, most likely written in C (like elspci), which need to be ported to ARM and then compiled, plus the various HW-detection modifications to scripts.
And keep in mind that until device-trees for ARM are merged to mainline, kernels for ARM tend to be compiled per-board -- so you'll be creating a ARM-Puppy-$board_name for each platform you want to support (like CyanogenMod do).
And don't forget that installing to ARM tends to consist of flashing ROM images...
What's the ugliest part of your body?
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
But I think it's your mind
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
But I think it's your mind
-
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 11:07
it actually does boot via the gpu
for what must be an extremely good reason, their boot process is:
- boot gpu
- have gpu intialize display
- have gpu mount sdcard
- load os kernel image from sdcard
- jump to 0000x0
source: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard#Power_Adapters
"The boards do not include NAND or NOR storage - everything is on the SD card, which has a FAT32 partition with GPU firmware and a kernel image, and an EXT2 partition with the rootfs.
We're not currently using a bootloader - we actually boot via the GPU, which contains a proprietary RISC core (wacky architecture . The GPU mounts the SD card, loads GPU firmware and brings up display/video/3d, loads a kernel image, resets the SD card host and starts the ARM.
You could replace the kernel image with a bootloader image, and that would work fine."
- boot gpu
- have gpu intialize display
- have gpu mount sdcard
- load os kernel image from sdcard
- jump to 0000x0
source: http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard#Power_Adapters
"The boards do not include NAND or NOR storage - everything is on the SD card, which has a FAT32 partition with GPU firmware and a kernel image, and an EXT2 partition with the rootfs.
We're not currently using a bootloader - we actually boot via the GPU, which contains a proprietary RISC core (wacky architecture . The GPU mounts the SD card, loads GPU firmware and brings up display/video/3d, loads a kernel image, resets the SD card host and starts the ARM.
You could replace the kernel image with a bootloader image, and that would work fine."
So its light in the end of the tunnel?
I cam not really decrypt the tech talk here, but I am given the impression there is several ways to go.
This project, as so many others(the 25 dollar PC), can only say like other... Yeah... Linux=Ubuntu.
I think they will loose a lot on this.
As far as I can see the 5.2.8 has a neat little feature where you can uninstall all programs(one by one), so some of that problematic software can go away. So if one could identify what programs for 5.2.8 that is ARM friendly or unfriendly, such a remaster could be made.
Then its the hardware drivers. I guess there is not such a huge need for the large hardware driver for that 25dollar PC? Looks somehow limited to me.
If one assumes that hardware support is NOT the major issues here and getting it to boot is, then I guess its time to see if one of PuppyLinux serious contributors can get his hands on the device?
I think it could be time to make a post referring to this in their forum? Or?
I cam not really decrypt the tech talk here, but I am given the impression there is several ways to go.
This project, as so many others(the 25 dollar PC), can only say like other... Yeah... Linux=Ubuntu.
I think they will loose a lot on this.
As far as I can see the 5.2.8 has a neat little feature where you can uninstall all programs(one by one), so some of that problematic software can go away. So if one could identify what programs for 5.2.8 that is ARM friendly or unfriendly, such a remaster could be made.
Then its the hardware drivers. I guess there is not such a huge need for the large hardware driver for that 25dollar PC? Looks somehow limited to me.
If one assumes that hardware support is NOT the major issues here and getting it to boot is, then I guess its time to see if one of PuppyLinux serious contributors can get his hands on the device?
I think it could be time to make a post referring to this in their forum? Or?
Atle
But I wonder if you not do some kind of category error.
Are you aware of what an ARM CPU really means? I mean it is very different.
okay you have Debian guys them know ARM some of them at least.
And apparently even Ubuntu has now jumped on the wagon them too.
So the only way forward would be to either go the Debian root and make a Pussy that works for ARM by using a true Debian from scratch.
To expect that a Puppy Developer would even have time to get into ARM is so unlikely for me that I am surprised you even ask.
Now sure I can be wrong but suppose one of them took upon himself to do it. Would it not take more than a year of 24/7 or somethign and at that time the ARM CPU has already changed to a totally other CPU still named ARM but entirely other inside and the poor puppy Dev has to start all over.
But sure I can can totally wrong but we have been at it now for a year or so eagerly asking for a puppy on ARM but none have even said a peep or beep on it from the Developers side and that tells me it is impossible to do and very embarrassing to admit how hard it is.
The reason Ubuntu is on it is that them are paid by that rich guy.
Nooby here: Atle it can be my poor grasp of English or my lack of structured logic capacity.If one assumes that hardware support is NOT the major issues here and getting it to boot is, then I guess its time to see if one of PuppyLinux serious contributors can get his hands on the device?
I think it could be time to make a post referring to this in their forum? Or?
But I wonder if you not do some kind of category error.
Are you aware of what an ARM CPU really means? I mean it is very different.
okay you have Debian guys them know ARM some of them at least.
And apparently even Ubuntu has now jumped on the wagon them too.
So the only way forward would be to either go the Debian root and make a Pussy that works for ARM by using a true Debian from scratch.
To expect that a Puppy Developer would even have time to get into ARM is so unlikely for me that I am surprised you even ask.
Now sure I can be wrong but suppose one of them took upon himself to do it. Would it not take more than a year of 24/7 or somethign and at that time the ARM CPU has already changed to a totally other CPU still named ARM but entirely other inside and the poor puppy Dev has to start all over.
But sure I can can totally wrong but we have been at it now for a year or so eagerly asking for a puppy on ARM but none have even said a peep or beep on it from the Developers side and that tells me it is impossible to do and very embarrassing to admit how hard it is.
The reason Ubuntu is on it is that them are paid by that rich guy.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
So you sort of ask me to post a thread on this issue in their forum? About how long they intend to stick to a compatible technology? I agree to all you say and it might even be wrongful to even ask this question.
Maybe they need Ubuntu more? Or ASlackware ARM?
One might just delete this thread then.
Maybe they need Ubuntu more? Or ASlackware ARM?
One might just delete this thread then.