Special features of Quirky 5.4.91
- BarryK
- Puppy Master
- Posts: 9392
- Joined: Mon 09 May 2005, 09:23
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
- Contact:
Special features of Quirky 5.4.91
Yesterday I announced a new release of Quirky, our Puppy that explores new ideas.
The original intro page for Quirky:
http://bkhome.org/quirky/
Announcement for Quirky 5.4.91:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky ... readme.htm
My blog post, with download link:
http://bkhome.org/blog2/?viewDetailed=00152
This forum thread is for anyone who wants to discuss the concepts, and implementation-of in Quirky.
Any other issues, such as video incompatibility, an application not working right, etc., is not a Quirky issue -- as Quirky is built from Racy packages, so post such feedback to the Wary/Racy forum thread:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=84618
The original intro page for Quirky:
http://bkhome.org/quirky/
Announcement for Quirky 5.4.91:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky ... readme.htm
My blog post, with download link:
http://bkhome.org/blog2/?viewDetailed=00152
This forum thread is for anyone who wants to discuss the concepts, and implementation-of in Quirky.
Any other issues, such as video incompatibility, an application not working right, etc., is not a Quirky issue -- as Quirky is built from Racy packages, so post such feedback to the Wary/Racy forum thread:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=84618
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]
- BarryK
- Puppy Master
- Posts: 9392
- Joined: Mon 09 May 2005, 09:23
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
- Contact:
The point was made on my blog that, like Tinycore Linux, this "one file" technique requires a lot of RAM.
Yes and no. The comparison with Tinycore is not appropriate. It has been a very long time since I looked at Tinycore, so correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that Tinycore has the entire filesystem in the "initramfs", full expanded, and runs it from there. No switch_root is involved.
Quirky does it totally differently. Quirky has the usual Puppy files, 'vmlinuz', 'initrd.gz', 'racy_5.4.91.sfs', it is just that the latter two are embedded inside the former.
Or, more correctly, initrd.gz, which is the cpio initramfs, is embedded inside vmlinuz, and racy_5.4.91.sfs is embedded inside initrd.gz.
Now, racy_5.4.91.sfs is our usual xz-compressed squashfs filesystem, so is very small, and it stays that way.
At bootup, a tmpfs is created and racy_5.4.91.sfs is placed in it, then moved into a aufs layered filesystem (which also has a save-file on subsequent boots), then a switch_root takes place and the initramfs is discarded.
In other words, only the original kernel is left (totally) in RAM.
puppy_5.4.91.sfs, which has all of the Puppy files, is in a tmpfs, which is also in RAM, but the operating system is able to use a swap file/partition.
Which means, that the Quirky approach does not need a "lot of RAM". Not necessarily, anyway. I mentioned in the Quirky release notes that there should be at least 512MB RAM, however Quirky would probably work in 256MB RAM if there is a swap file/partition -- but, I wouldn't recommend it, it would likely be slow.
Yes and no. The comparison with Tinycore is not appropriate. It has been a very long time since I looked at Tinycore, so correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that Tinycore has the entire filesystem in the "initramfs", full expanded, and runs it from there. No switch_root is involved.
Quirky does it totally differently. Quirky has the usual Puppy files, 'vmlinuz', 'initrd.gz', 'racy_5.4.91.sfs', it is just that the latter two are embedded inside the former.
Or, more correctly, initrd.gz, which is the cpio initramfs, is embedded inside vmlinuz, and racy_5.4.91.sfs is embedded inside initrd.gz.
Now, racy_5.4.91.sfs is our usual xz-compressed squashfs filesystem, so is very small, and it stays that way.
At bootup, a tmpfs is created and racy_5.4.91.sfs is placed in it, then moved into a aufs layered filesystem (which also has a save-file on subsequent boots), then a switch_root takes place and the initramfs is discarded.
In other words, only the original kernel is left (totally) in RAM.
puppy_5.4.91.sfs, which has all of the Puppy files, is in a tmpfs, which is also in RAM, but the operating system is able to use a swap file/partition.
Which means, that the Quirky approach does not need a "lot of RAM". Not necessarily, anyway. I mentioned in the Quirky release notes that there should be at least 512MB RAM, however Quirky would probably work in 256MB RAM if there is a swap file/partition -- but, I wouldn't recommend it, it would likely be slow.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]
- BarryK
- Puppy Master
- Posts: 9392
- Joined: Mon 09 May 2005, 09:23
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
- Contact:
It has been suggested that the name 'kernel.qky' needs a rethink.
Yes, I have been thinking that for sometime. I left it at that name for now, to get the ball rolling.
As any Puppy can be built as a "one file" Puppy, I suggest that the name include the name of the Puppy.
As far as the "qky" extension, I suggest "pup". We did have .pup package files a long time ago, but that extension should now be available for a new use.
So, a one-file pup built from Racy could be 'racy.pup'.
But, should the version number be included?
In that case, it would be 'racy-5.4.91.pup'
We can reserve .pup to always mean these one-file puppies. Furthermore, we can get ROX-Filer to recognise .pup mime-type to have this new meaning, and offer to open up and edit the contents -- for those who would like to hack the contents.
We already do this for 'initrd.gz' files. Awhile back I added mime-type handling, so if you click on a 'initrd.gz' file, you get an offer to open it up, then you can edit the contents, then put it together again. Which is great for hacking your pup's bootup.
Yes, I have been thinking that for sometime. I left it at that name for now, to get the ball rolling.
As any Puppy can be built as a "one file" Puppy, I suggest that the name include the name of the Puppy.
As far as the "qky" extension, I suggest "pup". We did have .pup package files a long time ago, but that extension should now be available for a new use.
So, a one-file pup built from Racy could be 'racy.pup'.
But, should the version number be included?
In that case, it would be 'racy-5.4.91.pup'
We can reserve .pup to always mean these one-file puppies. Furthermore, we can get ROX-Filer to recognise .pup mime-type to have this new meaning, and offer to open up and edit the contents -- for those who would like to hack the contents.
We already do this for 'initrd.gz' files. Awhile back I added mime-type handling, so if you click on a 'initrd.gz' file, you get an offer to open it up, then you can edit the contents, then put it together again. Which is great for hacking your pup's bootup.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]
Hi p310don
8gig ram is more than adequate - works in 2gig ram here. (1gig ram is plenty)
Tips ? - A possible potential reason -
grub4dos is fussy aboat “order
8gig ram is more than adequate - works in 2gig ram here. (1gig ram is plenty)
Tips ? - A possible potential reason -
grub4dos is fussy aboat “order
[b]Asus[/b] 701SD. 2gig ram. 8gb SSD. [b]IBM A21m[/b] laptop. 192mb ram. PIII Coppermine proc. [b]X60[/b] T2400 1.8Ghz proc. 2gig ram. 80gb hdd. [b]T41[/b] Pentium M 1400Mhz. 512mb ram.
Oh it is explained here.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky ... readme.htm
Barry write
"I created a directory '/quirky5.4.91' in one of the hd ext3 partitions. I then created an entry in the grub4dos 'menu.lst' file:
title Quirky 5.4.91 (sda7/quirky5.4.91)
uuid f547d8df-78f1-44db-a84a-600d9e9185cb
kernel /quirky5.4.91/kernel.qky pmedia=atahd psubdir=quirky5.4.91
Faster to download here
http://ftp.nluug.nl/ibiblio/distributio ... ky-5.4.91/
Ray I fail to get what your refer to here
"So logically Q (folders) are positioned after P folders (dir)’s and
before R. If one just dumps one’s Q (qky) folder (dir) anywhere -
grub4dos gets the hump."
How can one decide on such things? The computer place it where it does?
Okay I download and see if it loads
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky ... readme.htm
Barry write
"I created a directory '/quirky5.4.91' in one of the hd ext3 partitions. I then created an entry in the grub4dos 'menu.lst' file:
title Quirky 5.4.91 (sda7/quirky5.4.91)
uuid f547d8df-78f1-44db-a84a-600d9e9185cb
kernel /quirky5.4.91/kernel.qky pmedia=atahd psubdir=quirky5.4.91
Faster to download here
http://ftp.nluug.nl/ibiblio/distributio ... ky-5.4.91/
Ray I fail to get what your refer to here
"So logically Q (folders) are positioned after P folders (dir)’s and
before R. If one just dumps one’s Q (qky) folder (dir) anywhere -
grub4dos gets the hump."
How can one decide on such things? The computer place it where it does?
Okay I download and see if it loads
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
Hi nooby
Normally when one installs and runs grub4dos - it will search your drives and automatically produce a menu.lst.
However as BK explains - with kernel.qky - one needs to manually edit menu.lst - because grub4dos won’t automatically work with “kernel.qky
Normally when one installs and runs grub4dos - it will search your drives and automatically produce a menu.lst.
However as BK explains - with kernel.qky - one needs to manually edit menu.lst - because grub4dos won’t automatically work with “kernel.qky
[b]Asus[/b] 701SD. 2gig ram. 8gb SSD. [b]IBM A21m[/b] laptop. 192mb ram. PIII Coppermine proc. [b]X60[/b] T2400 1.8Ghz proc. 2gig ram. 80gb hdd. [b]T41[/b] Pentium M 1400Mhz. 512mb ram.
Testing the “litter
Hi Barry,
I tested Racy 5.4.91 and Quirky 5.4.91 yesterday both with a manual frugal install to a Fat32 USB2 stick. (Syslinux 4.04 boot - Nvidia GeForce 210)
The old Nouveau problem has definitely reared its ugly head again. Both booted to a distorted frozen desktop which seemed to be a frame-buffer echo of the vesamenu.c32 splash screen.
Using nouveau.modeset=0, I was however able to get vesa displays and then to switch to NV. Having done that however the show stopper was that the boot time extended to 180 seconds compared to 40 seconds with Precise 5.4.93 k3.8.0 on the same stick!
In order to eliminate syslinux as a possible cause, I also booted from CDs with the same result.
Precise 5.4.93 has been the best experience to date on my particular hardware and I have made some progress with the dual partition approach (fat/f2fs) which I have written up in this thread:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 182#687182
I tested Racy 5.4.91 and Quirky 5.4.91 yesterday both with a manual frugal install to a Fat32 USB2 stick. (Syslinux 4.04 boot - Nvidia GeForce 210)
The old Nouveau problem has definitely reared its ugly head again. Both booted to a distorted frozen desktop which seemed to be a frame-buffer echo of the vesamenu.c32 splash screen.
Using nouveau.modeset=0, I was however able to get vesa displays and then to switch to NV. Having done that however the show stopper was that the boot time extended to 180 seconds compared to 40 seconds with Precise 5.4.93 k3.8.0 on the same stick!
In order to eliminate syslinux as a possible cause, I also booted from CDs with the same result.
Precise 5.4.93 has been the best experience to date on my particular hardware and I have made some progress with the dual partition approach (fat/f2fs) which I have written up in this thread:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 182#687182
Regards ETP
[url=http://tinyurl.com/pxzq8o9][img]https://s17.postimg.cc/tl19y14y7/You_Tube_signature80px.png[/img][/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/kennels2/]Kennels[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/pxzq8o9][img]https://s17.postimg.cc/tl19y14y7/You_Tube_signature80px.png[/img][/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/kennels2/]Kennels[/url]
Thanks. it fail to show a normal screen it only has some -----
on it in different colors way up on the screen one need to
hard reboot. Exact same on both.
so same problem as ETP reports on.
I have HP Desktop with Athlon Dual core 3GB RAM 250MB HD
resolution 1366x768 LCD screen
Gallium 0.4 on NV8
So most likely it this code ? nouveau.modeset=0
So hope next Racy find ways to
fix this nouveau thing?
I tested racy and it booted fine with that code.
I test quirky now that one booted just fine into vesa too
if one use that code and then it suggest one test with
proper driver so please fix that |smile|
on it in different colors way up on the screen one need to
hard reboot. Exact same on both.
so same problem as ETP reports on.
I have HP Desktop with Athlon Dual core 3GB RAM 250MB HD
resolution 1366x768 LCD screen
Gallium 0.4 on NV8
So most likely it this code ? nouveau.modeset=0
So hope next Racy find ways to
fix this nouveau thing?
I tested racy and it booted fine with that code.
I test quirky now that one booted just fine into vesa too
if one use that code and then it suggest one test with
proper driver so please fix that |smile|
Last edited by nooby on Thu 28 Feb 2013, 13:11, edited 2 times in total.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
Booted fine but unable to create a savefile - don't get asked for either the "Are You Ready" screen or savefile size on 1st reboot and even if location is set by Barry's instruction in his blog the size does not get set - see screenie
This is a "frugal" install on an NTFS drive inside subdirectory test-quirky
Cheers
peebee
This is a "frugal" install on an NTFS drive inside subdirectory test-quirky
Cheers
peebee
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- capture13832.png
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Last edited by peebee on Thu 28 Feb 2013, 18:21, edited 1 time in total.
LxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64
hey peebee
there is a note at the bottom of the announcement on barry's blog
you have to select change folder, it's a known bug
it worked ok for me
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky ... readme.htm
there is a note at the bottom of the announcement on barry's blog
you have to select change folder, it's a known bug
it worked ok for me
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky ... readme.htm
Hi Allyally wrote:hey peebee
there is a note at the bottom of the announcement on barry's blog
you have to select change folder, it's a known bug
it worked ok for me
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky ... readme.htm
Yep - saw that note - I'm reporting a further problem on top of the one identified by Barry - I think!
Cheers
peebee
LxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64
Special features of Quirky 5.4.91
I made a quirky5491 directory on my 8gb SDHC card that has a slacko
5404 install on it as well.
I added to my menu.lst:
title Quirky 5.4.91 (sdb1/quirky5491)
uuid 1911d73f-91f4-48c7-98f5-a4f11ab9b216
kernel /quirky5491/kernel.qky pmedia=usbflash psubdir=quirky5491
It booted as normal and graphics,sound,network all good.
I rebooted creating a 512mb savefile (after changing to the proper
directory) and it's working fine I think.
# uname -ra
Linux puppypc13896 3.8.0 #1 SMP Wed Feb 27 09:46:01 WST 2013 i686 GNU/Linux
Report Video 1.3 - Thu 28 Feb 2013 on Racy Puppy 5.4.91 - Linux 3.8.0 i686
Chip description:
5.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
oem: ATI ATOMBIOS
product: RS780 01.00
X Server: Xorg Driver used: radeon
X.Org version: 1.11.0
dimensions: 1440x900 pixels (380x238 millimeters)
depth of root window: 24 planes
I did a test of kernel.qky on a pc with nvidia graphics and that
didn't go so well, got to the desktop but not a proper resolution and
trying to change it didn't work.
I installed the f2fs-tools-20130213-i486-static.pet and
f2fs-tools_DOC-20130213-i486-static.pet then stuck another SDHC card
in a usb adaptor and I was able to format it f2fs (I saw the command
elsewhere in a message by ETP), I created a quirky5491 directory and
then copied kernel.qky into the directory.
When I ran grub4dos it didn't see the flashdrive so that was the end
of that.
I'm afraid this is beyond me, going to need lots of hand holding for
this one.
Maybe it'll be easier to accomplish in the next quirky release
5404 install on it as well.
I added to my menu.lst:
title Quirky 5.4.91 (sdb1/quirky5491)
uuid 1911d73f-91f4-48c7-98f5-a4f11ab9b216
kernel /quirky5491/kernel.qky pmedia=usbflash psubdir=quirky5491
It booted as normal and graphics,sound,network all good.
I rebooted creating a 512mb savefile (after changing to the proper
directory) and it's working fine I think.
# uname -ra
Linux puppypc13896 3.8.0 #1 SMP Wed Feb 27 09:46:01 WST 2013 i686 GNU/Linux
Report Video 1.3 - Thu 28 Feb 2013 on Racy Puppy 5.4.91 - Linux 3.8.0 i686
Chip description:
5.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon HD 3200 Graphics
oem: ATI ATOMBIOS
product: RS780 01.00
X Server: Xorg Driver used: radeon
X.Org version: 1.11.0
dimensions: 1440x900 pixels (380x238 millimeters)
depth of root window: 24 planes
I did a test of kernel.qky on a pc with nvidia graphics and that
didn't go so well, got to the desktop but not a proper resolution and
trying to change it didn't work.
I installed the f2fs-tools-20130213-i486-static.pet and
f2fs-tools_DOC-20130213-i486-static.pet then stuck another SDHC card
in a usb adaptor and I was able to format it f2fs (I saw the command
elsewhere in a message by ETP), I created a quirky5491 directory and
then copied kernel.qky into the directory.
When I ran grub4dos it didn't see the flashdrive so that was the end
of that.
I'm afraid this is beyond me, going to need lots of hand holding for
this one.
Maybe it'll be easier to accomplish in the next quirky release
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- (13.49 KiB) Downloaded 1505 times
Manual frugal install on a Compaq Armada M700 PIII 850mhz and 576mb ram.
Takes about 2min 20 seconds until the Quick Setup window pops up.
Using about 300mb of ram.
Sound detected and wifi setup was no problem. Downloaded flashplayer and was able to watch a Youtube video at low quality (240p).
Not been able to to get a savefile after a couple of tries - even at 32mb.
[CORRECTION] - savefiles had been created outside the directory (got a lot of stuff on that partition and missed them...)
Copied original 128mb savefile into the Quirky directory and it has loaded without problem.
Had to use this to boot with grub4dos:
Takes about 2min 20 seconds until the Quick Setup window pops up.
Using about 300mb of ram.
Sound detected and wifi setup was no problem. Downloaded flashplayer and was able to watch a Youtube video at low quality (240p).
Not been able to to get a savefile after a couple of tries - even at 32mb.
[CORRECTION] - savefiles had been created outside the directory (got a lot of stuff on that partition and missed them...)
Copied original 128mb savefile into the Quirky directory and it has loaded without problem.
Had to use this to boot with grub4dos:
Code: Select all
title Quirky 5.4.91 (sda3/quirky5.4.91)
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /quirky5.4.91/kernel.qky
kernel /quirky5.4.91/kernel.qky pmedia=atahd psubdir=quirky5.4.91
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- sys-info-130228.gz
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Booted from a flash drive, the drive was already bootable, so I copied kernel.qky to / of the flash drive and edited the syslinux.cfg to read
I needed the pfix=nox as without it the display was corrupted and locked up, I ran xorgwizard which fixed the problem, I'm running a Nvidia Geforce 8600 GT, created a 4fs save, rebooted, everything runs fine.
Very slow loading the kernel though, takes well over a minute.
Code: Select all
default kernel.qky pmedia=usbflash pfix=nox
Very slow loading the kernel though, takes well over a minute.
[b]Carolina:[/b] [url=http://smokey01.com/carolina/pages/recent-repo.html]Recent Repository Additions[/url]
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ahfade8q4def1lq/signbot.gif[/img]
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ahfade8q4def1lq/signbot.gif[/img]
System Halted msg
did not even get past decompression md5sum checked ok.
On my Acer aspire one.... 1G ram
Booting 'Quirky 5.4.91'
[linux-bzImage, setup=0x3800, size=0x7d77c10]
uncompression error
-- System halted
On my Acer aspire one.... 1G ram
Booting 'Quirky 5.4.91'
[linux-bzImage, setup=0x3800, size=0x7d77c10]
uncompression error
-- System halted