Votes for permanently remove Seamonkey and add Opera/Firefox

Message

mollo · #1 Post by **mollo** » Tue 16 Jul 2013, 04:54

I read Barry´s blog and saw in his last masterpiece he decided to include Opera

I alsa read his FAQ and see the reasons for Seamonkey, anyways in my humble opinion, nowadays who uses an email client?, maybe 10% of Puppy users?, I use Hotmail and Gmail and for important mails my own one and all of them are accessed through a site using a browser so no need for an email client since lots of years ago, then comes the integrated HTML composer, here again I suppose that no more than 5% of Puppy users use that.
90% of users can live with only a browser, no need for an email client, html composer or anything else so my vote goes for a permanent removal of Seamonkey and a permanent introduction of any other browser-only Firefox, Opera, Chromium.

Sylvander · #2 Post by **Sylvander** » Tue 16 Jul 2013, 07:40

I use Firefox, thunderbird, Xfe, smm.

DPUP5520 · #3 Post by **DPUP5520** » Tue 16 Jul 2013, 08:04

Although I use Firefox as my only browser with Puppy, I can see why people wouldn't want to use it since as far as I've seen it is the slowest loading starting browser on Puppy (taking upwards of 5-6 seconds to start up). As for the original question/comment I'd much prefer to see non-derivatives (main Puppies) come without a browser built in or at least a separate version without a browser as these main Puppies usually have a decent lifespan and the browsers become outdated so quickly.

session · #4 Post by **session** » Tue 16 Jul 2013, 09:17

...nowadays who uses an email client?

Yes, and not many people are on dial-up, but more often than not, Puppy comes with a bunch of analog modem drivers. Barry has usually striven to keep his builds small and full-featured (and not rely too much on the Cloud)... Puppy derivatives are the specialized ones.

mollo · #5 Post by **mollo** » Tue 16 Jul 2013, 11:16

I'm not worried about waiting 5 seconds for a cold start of Firefox but if it is too slow then what about Opera or Nightly (or something like that) anything but Seamonkey, I prefer a browser-only built from the beggining on every derivative than having to download it later, maybe Opera is the fastest one then Opera on every Puppy and Pupplet or derivative or Nightly or Chromium.

I thought analog modem driver came only in Wary...
I only use wired connection so don't care about modems or even wifi as I use to discard that module in my laptops.

I hope Barry decides to maintain the recently introduced Opera (or any other browser-only) and abandon the Seamonkey thing.

Terryphi · #6 Post by **Terryphi** » Tue 16 Jul 2013, 13:42

Whatever Barry decides Opera is always available for everyone.

I use Opera as my primary browser but I also like to have Firefox, Chromium ... oh yes, and even Seamonkey to see what developers are producing.

RetroTechGuy · #7 Post by **RetroTechGuy** » Tue 16 Jul 2013, 21:20

Sylvander wrote:I use Firefox, thunderbird, Xfe, smm.

I use FF and Tbird also.

I thought that Lucid's trick of installing the chosen browser was the way to go (the Dev doesn't need to decide, let the user decide).

ozsouth · #8 Post by **ozsouth** » Tue 16 Jul 2013, 22:59

Seamonkey's 'all in one' feature is useful for older folk. I have people in their 80s who can (just) use it. Automatic attachment associations are important.
Nevertheless, if Puppy had a simple browser, Seamonkey could always be added for those who need it.

dogle · #9 Post by **dogle** » Wed 17 Jul 2013, 20:36

I go along with mollo's primary logic - and with that of other posters - but disagree with his conclusion.

Sure, Seamonkey was chosen way back because it offered a compact browser/mailclient combination, and I for one haven't used an email client in years.

The way I see it:

- if you have no internet, you need neither.

- if you do have internet, you can install whatever the heck you like, so long as Puppy includes browsing/PPM capability sufficient for you to download it.

I don't much like Seamonkey's prescriptiveness and opacity, but IMHO Firefox is miles worse (and I hate it). I'm excited by the renewed interest in compact non-Mozilla stuff .... and surely, to apply Opera or Firefox like a suppository to Puppyusers is not the way to go.

mollo · #10 Post by **mollo** » Thu 18 Jul 2013, 05:18

Dogle, I'm not seggesting not to being able to choose your favourite browser, as RetroTechGuy said "Let the user decide" what I'm votig for is for removing the browser that comes preinstalled in Puppy, no need for an email client for a long long time because all emails are accessed through website (not only Hotmail or Gmail but even the private ones that come through your ISP), very very very few need an HTML composer so why the need for Seamonkey as the preinstalled solution?, instead of that preinstall a browser-only (I didn't say only Firefox) and if you are so desperately in need of the whole Seamonkey thing then go for it after starting your Puppy.
If (like you said) applying Firefox or Opera to users is a "suppository" then I would prefer to apply that instead of Seamonkey because Seamonkey suppository is like 3 suppositories, one for browser and two more for unneeded/unused functions (email client and HTML composer) better one than three

Slacko used to come with Opera or Firefox but I think they abandoned Opera since they switched to Next or so.
Another distro switched from Firefox/Opera to Seamonkey but that lasted very little and now they are back to Firefox or Nightly again.

DaveS · #11 Post by **DaveS** » Thu 18 Jul 2013, 07:47

Funny, throughout, browser choice has always been controversial. Most distros try to offer a 'complete' solution, so SOMETHING has to go in I guess. Old old argument.

Monsie · #12 Post by **Monsie** » Thu 18 Jul 2013, 07:52

mollo,

It would be interesting to know about how many Puppy Linux users still use an e-mail client. I would try to determine this statistic first instead of offering guesses as to what it might be and using the latter as a justification for getting rid of SeaMonkey. I do use my Hotmail in conjunction with PLDF but, I configure it to run in SeaMonkey Mail and News because I like the richness and feature set found in an e-mail client. That said, I am probably in a minority of such users. One could run a separate browser and e-mail client... and I notice that the newest version of Opera does not include Opera Mail built in, rather, Opera Mail is now a separate e-mail client.

So, Opera with the separate Opera Mail client might turn out to be a useful replacement or alternative to SeaMonkey.

Monsie

DaveS · #13 Post by **DaveS** » Thu 18 Jul 2013, 07:54

I use gmail now but reserve the option to change if the service changes, always a possiblilty.

session · #14 Post by **session** » Thu 18 Jul 2013, 09:11

...one for browser and two more for unneeded/unused functions (email client and HTML composer) better one than three

You do realize that Seamonkey is the same size as Firefox? This reminds me of the 3 calculator debate; like I said, there are Puppy derivatives that emphasize minimalism... stock Puppy is more of a funtional assortment tempered by Barry's common sense.

Wognath · #15 Post by **Wognath** » Thu 18 Jul 2013, 17:28

In view of the strong feelings about browsers, IMHO Lucid had it right: a light browser like Dillo and an easy way to install user's choice of browser.

bark_bark_bark · #16 Post by **bark_bark_bark** » Thu 18 Jul 2013, 19:02

In no way should dillo be added.

Why?

Another dependency, fltk

and when the user installs preferred browser, they have to deal with a few extra MBs.

Also we would have to find a email client as well.

Seamonkey should stay.

(but the font change from 76dpi to 96dpi shouldn't, things don't fit on the screen as well with 96dpi.)

RetroTechGuy · #17 Post by **RetroTechGuy** » Thu 18 Jul 2013, 19:50

bark_bark_bark wrote:In no way should dillo be added.

Why?

Another dependency, fltk

and when the user installs preferred browser, they have to deal with a few extra MBs.

Also we would have to find a email client as well.

Seamonkey should stay.

(but the font change from 76dpi to 96dpi shouldn't, things don't fit on the screen as well with 96dpi.)

I don't see how leaving Seamonkey in harms anything, and it gives a functional browser right out of the gate. It's easy enough to drop in your preferred browser after you have everything up and running.

Bligh · #18 Post by **Bligh** » Fri 19 Jul 2013, 02:30

I primarily use Seamonkey. It is still compatible with Netscape Communicator. I have firefox on most systems simply because it is in wide usage. But I don't like it as much. I rarely install other browsers, except to try them out. I happen to think choice is good.
Cheers

rjbrewer · #19 Post by **rjbrewer** » Fri 19 Jul 2013, 05:03

It's easy to remove a browser and install another.

Don't mess with a great tradition.

greengeek · #20 Post by **greengeek** » Fri 19 Jul 2013, 07:38

I love Seamonkey. It is always the one I seem to come back to.
I also love Opera, but over the last year I've started to feel somewhat insecure about the staff they have, and the way the product works. I feel the Opera company has taken a turn away from making the program do what the end user wants, and gone more towards using the end user for what Opera wants.
(Maybe thats because Opera bought out my email provider - Fastmail - and the quality of the webmail product has gone steadily downhill since then, and the helpdesk responses have become steadily less helpful, less responsive, and more "corporate")

Seamonkey is a solid base that can be easily discarded by the user or supplemented by other browsers for specific purposes. Keep it I say...

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum