6502coder wrote:For people who want a fat Linux distro OOTB there are plenty of choices out there. I do not understand why so many Puppy users are so obsessed with "defending" Puppy and "converting" other people to Puppy. I choose to use Puppy for the same reason I choose to drink the beer I drink -- because I like it, and I could not care less who does or does not agree with my choices.
I have proposed and installed Puppy in many friends of mine. Some of them are graphic designers. They can easily create art for Puppy. Some of them are web designers. They can help with the webpages. Some of them are translators. They can help with OS, Apps and Wiki translations. Some of them are programmers. They can help with the development. Some of them are bloggers. They can write about Puppy. Some of them are on not-related jobs (like child-care for example) but they are the real average users who can report bugs, propose ideas, help make Puppy friendlier.
Puppy needs newcomers if we want it to stay alive and evolve. We have seen distros on the past dying due to lack of users and support. This could easily happen to Puppy one day. Each distro doesn't need only a few dedicated developers and a core of few permanent users. It needs to be more "open" to everyone...
Q5sys wrote:If a team of people got together they could take a Official release (like Slacko), and create a ton of SFS packages so users could easily update and expand their system.
But has anyone in the community stepped forward to do this? Not yet sadly.
For puppy to grow and encompass more users, we need more people to get involved in the creation. Right now the development work is spread too thin. If I had more time, I'd be willing to pitch in, but I dont. I'm behind in the dev work I'm planning to do with Slackbones and Lighthouse.
I'm willing to help guide someone who is willing to put forth the effort to expand the offerings of Slacko.
How can we tell which is an "official" release. I, for example, could say that official release it's a Puppy without binaries from another distro. You could say "Slacko" and someone else could say "precise". If there is no a main guideline, how can we work together and do something that matters?
You say that you work on Lighthouse and Slackbones. There are so many derivatives that noone knows where to put his energy and good will to help! Users and developers are devided on one million different sides!
Volhout wrote:
- many pups have a PPM that has links to UBUNTU or SLACKWARE. Very nice. Do you really expect that my mom knows how to install Stellarium from UBUNTU packages in Precise.... come on..... wake up.
- The PPM does not show in any way what program does what. There is a small explanation, but if my mom needs a program to edit a text file, she would not know where to start.
Puppy PPM is really too tricky, even for more experienced users some time. And i believe it's a huge problem that there are so many "unofficial" (and usually hard to find) repositories out there. We should improve PPM somehow and gather all apps into "official" or easy-to-be-added repositories.
Volhout wrote:I would embrace a FAT puppy that has a selection of packages that is well thought out. Actually I don't even think users care about what internet browser they use. It should work. So they do not want XX choices in PPM they don't know. Chromium, Chrome, Opera, Firefox, Seamonkey, Midori, ...... They want an icon, or menu entry that says "internet".
And my proposal is to make such a puppy once every 2 years. And the PPM should focus on programs that appeal to users (i.e. Stellarium or a Bridge game). Devx is not needed. USERS don't need an ftp server. But they will expect the PC to function in a windows-alike environment until they really believe in Puppy to be a replacement. Hence...SAMBA.
Menu structures could be very simple ... since 50% of all the programs that are distributed now with Puppy are developer oriented. They should go. Seamonkey is preferred web browser because it has a HTML editor.... haha ... users don't write HTML.... They don't know what it is. Maybe they recognise the word from MS-WORD in the list "save as HTML".
I couldn't agree more!!
bark_bark_bark wrote:
We all have strong opinions about different pieces of software.
That's true. But the same happens with the current releases... Example: I don't want Seamonkey, i prefer Firefox. I don't want Galculator, i prefer Xcalc. I don't want Take A Shot, i prefer PupSnap. And so on... But we have to make some compromises and think what will be best for the average user.
stu91 wrote:I think since i started using puppy it has gone from T2 > Ubuntu > Slackware > Ubuntu + all the derivatives and various base distro versions. This constant flip flopping makes it very difficult to do anything with puppy as you more often than not end up doing the same work over and over:?
That's what i'm talking about! Compiling tends to become a huge waste of time if not everyone can use the apps.
jpeps wrote:Removing programs probably will have no advantage, since most take up very little disk space. Some programs, like ftp, will be very useful later on when you learn how to use it. A different approach: included programs have been carefully screened before being included. Try a few out, it's what makes puppy interesting. The advantage of inclusion by the developer is that they work, and are well tested and integrated. That's why puppy is SOOOOO much superior to something like TinyCore.
So many menu entries are confusing and not desirable by some users (including me). Why have Galculator AND Xcalc? Why have e3 AND mp? Why... why... why...
stu91 wrote:What puppy needs is a solid foundation, none of this constant reinventing the wheel every x months - it would make it so much easier for the community to add to, build for and develop on.
Puppy doesn't need a 'fat' version it needs an 'lts' version.
sunburnt wrote:I`m with stu on the "reinventing the wheel" thing, I`ve seen lots of that here.
Basically it amounts to wasted effort, definitely not productive or desirable.
Totally agree!
simargl wrote:When Barry made Puppy based on Ubuntu he wrongly assumed that his pet package manager will be able to install deb packages from Ubuntu's repository directly without problems, and that is not true. It works for simple packages like leafpad, but it's broken with everything more complex and that problem regular, non-technical user can't solve.
Because PPM is broken, and users can't install packages with it, they are forced to use forum to host and share PET packages, for example this
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 259#719259, 10 pet packages for 10 Puppy versions, that is just one big waste of time. And how can you believe that any of pet packages on this forum doesn't have post install action set to erase all of your disk data?
That's one of the most correct things that have been told here!!
sunburnt wrote:The Q: Should something work, or be continually cobbled together in never ending repetition.?
The answer is obvious, though most refuse to embrace the change. Change is good.!
Change and evolvement are good things, especially on technological matter like this one...
What i think:
- We need a "fat" LTS release every two year with updated and well-tested apps for average users and newcomers
- We have to improve PPM and gather all these wandering apps over the net into "official" repositories
- We must decide which Puppy will be "main release" (fat or minimal) and create tones of packages, scripts and support material for it
This is just my opinion. With love and infinite respect for the distro and all the Puppy community.