Puppy In-House Development

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01micko · #141 Post by **01micko** » Sun 01 Dec 2013, 10:36

blackscreen on radeon HD4000, tried turning off modesetting, same.
I'll throw it on a stick and test some others. Intels will probably have better luck.

Edit: I'm pretty sure a lot of video cards need firmware blobs.. it's a bugger for free as in libre.. but it's not always convenient or even possible in some cases to shop around for 100% supported HW.

linuxcbon · #142 Post by **linuxcbon** » Sun 01 Dec 2013, 11:08

I have radeon HD3200 and it works, so maybe your boot parameters are wrong. I used no boot parameters except root.

01micko · #143 Post by **01micko** » Sun 01 Dec 2013, 11:26

Nah.. boots ok.. just doesn't like my graphics, tried several video modes that could possibly make sense for my setup.
edit0: intel desktop.. no usb keyboard

edit1: intel lappy.. what is that damn root password?

(3x, hard reset..)

Iguleder · #144 Post by **Iguleder** » Sun 01 Dec 2013, 11:47

I have a HD 4000 and previous builds worked - no firmware. The password is "root".

By the way, try vga=ask. The X server requires a framebuffer.

01micko · #145 Post by **01micko** » Sun 01 Dec 2013, 12:05

Iguleder wrote:I have a HD 4000 and previous builds worked - no firmware. The password is "root".

By the way, try vga=ask. The X server requires a framebuffer.

Yes brute forced the password

... but now I have /bin/startx [105]: /usr/bin/mcookie not found

... no /usr/bin right?

Oh.. xinit

linuxcbon · #146 Post by **linuxcbon** » Sun 01 Dec 2013, 12:36

What do I do to make usb keyboard work ?

Keef · #147 Post by **Keef** » Sun 01 Dec 2013, 14:39

Can't get past the log in. Looks like another USB keyboard not recognised.

Iguleder · #148 Post by **Iguleder** » Sun 01 Dec 2013, 15:07

Try again after 10 minutes. It seems driver loading is slow as hell, I'll make it multi-threaded or something.

jamesbond · #149 Post by **jamesbond** » Wed 04 Dec 2013, 03:36

For whatever it is worth: I took Iguleder's tinyxlib and tinyxserver from github and built it statically against the latest musl, and then plug it to Fatdog64 and run it as the default X server, against uvesafb framebuffer.

Things that work:
- Openbox (linked with GTK2)
- Qt-based apps (e.g. VLC)
- urxvt

Things that don't work - mostly GTK2 apps:
- rox filer, geany, leafpad, mtpaint, calcoo, ...

Those that fail complain about "Bad Request". The X server itself doesn't crash, which is very good indeed.

I then took Iguleder's build from the ISO and re-do the test, same result, so it's not the compile - there must be some extensions that were missing.

Size comparison: this static Xfbdev is 950K. Dynamic Xfbdev from xorg 1.14.3 with all bells and whistles, compiled on ARM, is 1.5MB (X libs size and glibc size not counted) - I suppose the same server built in Fatdog64 would be aounrd 2MB excluding the dependencies.

PS: Iguleder, your latest ISO is missing ifconfig, so the network can't be configured and there is no way to transfer files to/from the system (unless you happen to use another tool which I don't recognise

)

amigo · #150 Post by **amigo** » Wed 04 Dec 2013, 07:30

Sure, there are lots of X extensions missing -that's what made it 'tinyXlib' to start with. As with any such things, if you want the full capability, then use a full version. If you insist on using something which is limited or crippled, then many things won't work at all unless you re-write them -not a very good solution even if you are a programming whiz. Try re-writing firefox so that it uses tinyXlib and musl...

Iguleder · #151 Post by **Iguleder** » Wed 04 Dec 2013, 08:58

Wow, it's great to see Qt works. Regarding ifconfig - I want to add it to lazy-utils.

goingnuts · #152 Post by **goingnuts** » Wed 04 Dec 2013, 17:40

amigo wrote:Sure, there are lots of X extensions missing -that's what made it 'tinyXlib' to start with. As with any such things, if you want the full capability, then use a full version. If you insist on using something which is limited or crippled, then many things won't work at all unless you re-write them -not a very good solution even if you are a programming whiz. Try re-writing firefox so that it uses tinyXlib and musl...

Agree! I know I repeat myself but Xvesa/Xfbdev from XFree86-4.8.0...

Ibidem · #153 Post by **Ibidem** » Thu 05 Dec 2013, 06:03

linuxcbon wrote:I have radeon HD3200 and it works, so maybe your boot parameters are wrong. I used no boot parameters except root.

IIRC, HD3xxx was the last to work with no firmware.

Re: USB keyboards:
That's usbhid.ko or usbkbd.ko, or CONFIG_USB_HID/CONFIG_USB_KBD.
You may need to either add a script that modprobes one or the other (usbkbd is the basic version, usbhid the full one), or build in usb support, and then change one of those from m to y (build in USB HID support).

Regarding ifconfig:
You'll also need route.
If you have any questions, both are included in toybox already, so feel free to take a look.
Those who just want a binary can grab it from the bottom of this thread.

jamesbond · #154 Post by **jamesbond** » Thu 05 Dec 2013, 16:07

amigo wrote:Sure, there are lots of X extensions missing -that's what made it 'tinyXlib' to start with. As with any such things, if you want the full capability, then use a full version.

Agreed. I just want to see how far tinyxserver can go. The recent Xfbdev can easily handle modern applications, can support touchscreen input, evdev, etc. It's not small however.

If you insist on using something which is limited or crippled, then many things won't work at all unless you re-write them -not a very good solution even if you are a programming whiz.

Agreed in general, but there are always situations or needs for where "small" trumps out everything else, and then one may forego functionalities for size.

Try re-writing firefox so that it uses tinyXlib and musl...

It can already run on bionic libc (android) which is a lot more simpler than musl, so it should be possible ... oh wait, it already does run on musl: https://github.com/sabotage-linux/sabot ... kg/firefox

But your point is well taken.

amigo · #155 Post by **amigo** » Thu 05 Dec 2013, 17:50

I have nothing against 'small' -I've been championing small installations for a decade. But I've learned to not waste time trying to make things 'as tiny as possible' or let smallness get in the way of forward/upward compatibility.

Iguleder · #156 Post by **Iguleder** » Thu 05 Dec 2013, 21:16

Got even more applications to work.

I find these static applications nice - tomorrow I want to do an experiment and integrate them with Slacko.

EDIT: my GTK1 PPM frontend mockup seems to work well - it's a GTK list of (status, name) tuples. When the user clicks a package entry, the package is either installed or removed, using an external script. Now, I'm going to write that external PET installation script.

EDIT: I also fixed devd - now, instead of loading modules on its own, it runs modprobe, so module loading is parallel.

technosaurus · #157 Post by **technosaurus** » Fri 06 Dec 2013, 23:02

I was looking into a light BSD alternative to trans-"mongrel"-fy into a minimal X distro and came across mirOS. It is already pretty light and, like puppy, maintains a couple of nice apps.
mksh would be a good small replacement for ash/bash/ksh (and for amigo, it even has a builtin that can replace the readlink he was asking about)
jupp is a nice fork of joe's own editor with text highlighting

Since xfbdev is Linux-specific, we would have to use the wsfb kdrive from openBSD

Is anyone else interested in a BSD based pup? If so, goingnuts has made some improvements to hazewm, a permissively licensed alternative to jwm (I converted and put together a rather large collection of public domain tango xpm icons for it too)... or e16+eterm may be a bit better (though a bit larger) alternative

PANZERKOPF · #158 Post by **PANZERKOPF** » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 00:30

technosaurus wrote: Is anyone else interested in a BSD based pup?

There is an interesting project based on FreeBSD.
An installable LiveCD with minimal set of apps.
Uses cloop compressed filesystem and can be easily remastered.
http://frenzy.org.ua/en/

sszindian · #159 Post by **sszindian** » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 03:04

technosaurus!

I believe that a BSD Puppy would be a great addition to the Puppy world! Would give testers (and users) a great opportunity to work with something a tad different and who knows... it could become a 'best seller!' I would sure give it a good workout.

>>>---Indian------>

Ibidem · #160 Post by **Ibidem** » Sat 07 Dec 2013, 05:55

I'd be very interested in a "mongrel-fied" BSD.
mksh I use already, though I have a preference for the other ksh versions (ast ksh93 and openbsd-pdksh).
I note that mirOS does have a couple limits: it's aimed strictly at 32-bit single-core boxes.
PaxMirabilis is another thing they offer.

Hmmm...wsfb kdrive? Sounds neat. I'd be interested in a unification with Xfbdev, though it might be out of my own reach.

And apps...libagar, vislak (http://vislak.hypertriton.com/), EZWord or TextEdit...

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