Remember underdog?

Message

tronkel · #1 Post by **tronkel** » Sun 17 Dec 2006, 22:11

Remember underdog? This is a very handy device for running programs in Puppy from another Linux distro whose partition Puppy Linux shares. Doesn't seem to merit much attention these days - I can't understand why that is - it's very nifty!

For example I have Vector Linux installed underneath Puppy in partition "hda"and have direct access to all these handy utils that Vector has which could be extremely useful in Puppy were they available - e.g. rpm2tgz, pkgtool, installpkg, slapt-get to name but a few.

This little script will enable underdog for you or remove the connection as required. It works by creating the file "underdog.lnx" containing a single line "hda1" (no quotes). The PC will the reboot with this file now in place in the home partition - i.e.
where your pup_save.3fs resides. If you use option 2 to remove the connection without there being an existing underdog.lnx file in the home partition, the script will simply exit without a reboot. Otherwise the script removes the file and reboots Puppy back to normal. Alter the value of variable string1 to whatever your home partition is called.

#!/bin/sh
#tronkel
#this little bash script when run from a terminal will start or remove underdog.
#system reboots after completion of script if "underdog.lnx" is present otherwise will simply #exit the shell. System will also reboot if "Start" option is selected

string1="hda1"
select item in Start Remove
do
if [ $item = "Start" ];then
touch /mnt/home/underdog.lnx
echo $string1 >> /mnt/home/underdog.lnx
/usr/X11R7/bin/wmreboot
elif [ $item = "Remove" ];then
if [ ! -e /initrd/mnt/dev_save/underdog.lnx ];then
echo "underdog.lnx does not exist"
exit
else
rm /initrd/mnt/dev_save/underdog.lnx
echo "underdog removed"
/usr/X11R7/bin/wmreboot
fi
else
break
fi
done

I also attach the script as a file

Aitch · #2 Post by **Aitch** » Sat 28 Jan 2012, 18:46

Hi tronkel

Remember underdog? - er, no!

sorry about reviving an old thread, but a search trail led me here

Does this still work in modern puppies, [I'm using noryb's win32 installer of slacko 530scsi-pae] or is there an easier way......I was looking at researching chroot.......?
basically thinking how to access other linux files on my drive from puppy, as I'm experimenting with mint and bodhi

...or does just mounting [other] partitions allow the same thing?

Aitch

BarryK · #3 Post by **BarryK** » Sun 29 Jan 2012, 01:40

Underdog is described here:

http://puppylinux.com/development/howpuppyworks.html

Yes, it is a very interesting idea, but has died through lack of interest.

Puppy no longer supports 'underdog.lnx', but I could bring it back.

Aitch · #4 Post by **Aitch** » Sun 29 Jan 2012, 07:23

Wow

I don't understand the lack of interest.....I'd like to see a revival of the underdog

thanks for that link....I'm a bit puzzled that I've never come across that page before.......shame that the quality of description got lost, too, as many people don't seem to understand the file structure, nor the boot process

The link to the boot page is broken, Barry....have you still got the info, or did it die with hostgator...? - or did you write a later version?

and at the end....what was Step 3?

thanks

Aitch

tronkel · #5 Post by **tronkel** » Sun 29 Jan 2012, 08:08

Underdog goes so far back in PuppyTime that I had forgotten about it myself.

I always thought though, that it (underdog) was a fiendishly clever Puppy feature that ranks along with Multissesion etc for making Puppy Linux stand out from the crowd. With the recent proliferation of Puppy versions in recent times, it's no wonder things can get forgotten about. I wonder what other stuff could be brought back in from the cold as well. Maybe now a good time to revisit old haunts - just to see if anything interesting is lurking there, that has been quietly forgotten in the meantime.

@Barry, I'm using Slacko 5.3.1 at this time - it suits my hardware at the moment. Waiting for the next Racy to appear. Maybe it'll play better with my new ATI Radeon 6450 video card that is giving problems with many versions of both Puppy and other Linuces. I've always got to use the FGLRX proprietary driver to get up and running - whereas I'd rather use the open source driver, but that appears not to support this card (as yet anyway).

I'd also like to see underdog reintroduced into the current series of Puppies. I reckon many Puppy users save their persistent pup_save to a Linux partition that has useful programs included that could run inside a Puppy installation.

@Aitch

Well spotted! historical research is worthwhile.

Ray MK · #6 Post by **Ray MK** » Sun 29 Jan 2012, 11:41

Hi

Tronkel said
"I'd also like to see underdog reintroduced into the current series of Puppies. I reckon many Puppy users save their persistent pup_save to a Linux partition that has useful programs included that could run inside a Puppy installation."

Me too - would be just fantastic to be able to use "underdog" feature.

Many thanks and very best regars - Ray

musher0 · #7 Post by **musher0** » Sun 29 Jan 2012, 16:46

@ tronkel:

In view of the fast-changing pace of Puppy, could your underdog script be used to incorporate an older Puppy into your current one?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Lobster · #8 Post by **Lobster** » Mon 30 Jan 2012, 06:06

Used it. Forgot it. Welcome its return.
http://puppylinux.info/topic/underdog

How do we forget stuff like this?
I don't have another distro on my HD at the moment . . .
Decisions, decisions . . .

m m m . . . would it be possible to run a 64bit OS (eg Fatdog) from a 32bit?
How about running a BSD?
. . . how about the Underdog distro which boots Puppy and uses a script to install a variety of big dog Linux?

Seems like a job for Superpup

BarryK · #9 Post by **BarryK** » Mon 30 Jan 2012, 08:12

Ha ha, when I posted above, I didn't realise that tronkel's post was in 2006! I was puzzled and asked what Puppy he was using -- I have edited that post and removed the question!

Anyway, yes, Underdog has made a return:
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02668

It remains to be seen how well it will work. We might need to put in some hack code in the 'init' script to take care of some details.

One thing it doesn't do is update the menu. Normally, when an SFS file is added, the 'init' script notes the change in the layers, and the JWM (or whatever) menu gets updated. But I left the Underdog out of that. But, that could be modified so that the Underdog Linux gets treated like any other SFS layer and menu updates, also updates upon remove.

I can make some changes after testers have tried it.

Aitch · #10 Post by **Aitch** » Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:30

Thanks Barry

I have to admit to surprisingly never having seen this referenced before, and am amazed it got 'lost'...it seems to me that puppy is the only linux distro to make use of this utility?

thanks tronkel, also

Who wrote the original code?

Aitch

Lobster · #11 Post by **Lobster** » Mon 30 Jan 2012, 14:40

Jack (Tronkel) wrote the original code

Code: Select all

touch /mnt/home/underdog.lnx

touch is the magic bit

I thought it was excellent, I was just gobsmacked [surprised] at the time
of using it with Vector Linux

Aitch · #12 Post by **Aitch** » Mon 30 Jan 2012, 15:26

MMM...I await Barry's response as his news of Jan 30th 2006 would seem to suggest prior art....

http://puppylinux.com/news/news2006a.htm

Barry, perhaps you would also offer explanation why it needed deleting, if upgrading, as mentioned several times up to May24th 2006

UPGRADING: If you have tested a previous puppy2 alpha CD, please get rid of any pup_save.3fs file, wherever it is on the hard drive. Also delete a underdog.lnx file if it exists. This is important!

Did something break/has this modern relevance?

Aitch

shadower_sc · #13 Post by **shadower_sc** » Mon 30 Jan 2012, 16:38

I will have to try this some time. It sounds cool, but it sounds like all kinds of things could go wrong.

sc0ttman · #14 Post by **sc0ttman** » Mon 30 Jan 2012, 17:24

BarryK wrote:Normally, when an SFS file is added, the 'init' script notes the change in the layers, and the JWM (or whatever) menu gets updated. But I left the Underdog out of that. But, that could be modified so that the Underdog Linux gets treated like any other SFS layer and menu updates, also updates upon remove.

I can make some changes after testers have tried it.

This may be off topic a bit, I don't know the underlying code, but goingnuts has done something similar with pUpnGo, linking in a whole other distro on top of (underneath?) pupngo... It may be worth checking out some of that ...

gcmartin · #15 Post by **gcmartin** » Mon 30 Jan 2012, 19:29

This brings into Puppyland a revolutionary view of the PUPPY distro(s) and its future.

Hope the community can affect this strategy because of so many paths that would be good for distro development.

This should not need community support. This is visionary.

Hope this helps

tronkel · #16 Post by **tronkel** » Tue 31 Jan 2012, 12:20

musher0 wrote:

In view of the fast-changing pace of Puppy, could your underdog script be used to incorporate an older Puppy into your current one?

I don't ever remember trying to piggy-back on another Puppy version. If the underlying Puppy distro is a full partition install, then it would probably work.

Underdog itself never worked perfectly. The ability to run an executable will depend, as always on the correct dependencies being available at run-time. The chances of any one specific executable being runnable increase if the underlying system is library-compatible with the Puppy version used as the main launcher. The efficacy of Underdog could well improve/change this time round, since Barry is reviewing the implementation.

@Lobster :

The script you refer to is not rocket science at all. All that script does, is to remove or create an underdog.lnx text file with the aid of a command-line menu. This has the effect of enabling/disabling Underdog as the user desires.

Exactly the same thing can be achieved by manually creating or deleting the text file. I certainly didn't implement the Underdog feature itself - it was Barry who did that.

Other interesting things to research as regards connecting up distro functionality are debootstrap and the chroot command.

musher0 · #17 Post by **musher0** » Tue 31 Jan 2012, 23:44

Thanks for your answer, tronkel!

nooby · #18 Post by **nooby** » Fri 24 Feb 2012, 08:51

So one would need to build some kind of super charged Puppy
that includes libs? from many main distros and kernel versions and
so on and by using underdog or what goingnuts is up to and that
would allow that one can make use of repos from many many of the
main distros?

"Partition hda1" Does that need to be fat32, ext2, ext3 etc or can
it be NTFS too?

Sure one could reformat a USB to Ext3 and place any distro
one would explore there and then use Lupu or slacko or saluki?

Can it use Fat32 or does it have to be ext3?

debootstrap is new to me. Does that work good in puppy?
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2010/01/deb ... tallation/

Does it only work for full install?

Pelo · #19 Post by **Pelo** » Sun 05 May 2013, 18:43

Just a fact : i run old puppies on recent ones by loading them 'sfs on the fly', the whole sfs of the old distro, and it takes profit of all the system of the newest (wifi, sound cards, programs). The recent puppy takes profit of the eldest too. Puppy a union Puppy b is the sum, the common part being the youngest.
And it works
Here i am with DPUP 485 installed on the fly on DPUP exprimo released 2013

The aim seems the same as underdog.
What is the interest : oldest puppies are richer than young ones, but they cannot connect on recent computers. Loading on the fly gives me the best of each one. Musher0 in french forum is not againt, others find this process foolish !

Polar pup : no trace of underdog files (pfind)

mistfire · #20 Post by **mistfire** » Fri 05 Aug 2016, 11:29

Hello I tried to use underdog linux on slitaz. It works however slitaz environment runs also as a result there are two panels are running; one for slitaz and one for puppy. Is there anyway to supress running of desktop environment of other distro on underdog unless its initiated by user or switch environments between puppy and other distro?

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