Puppy (and Linux) is broken.
I have two wireless ethernet cards (an RT2500 PCMCIA and a Hawking USB). The network wizard successfully loads the drivers for these interfaces, but then it says, "Puppy does not see any active ethernet interfaces."
No amount of searching reveals the cause of the problem. No amount of ifconfig, iwconfig, checking dmesg, or any other activity indicates why these drivers and/or hardware fails to work. Since I have spent enough time recompiling kernels and drivers and wifi utilities without success, I now refuse to do so. I have no confidence whatsoever that such activities shall not be a complete waste of time.
For the sake of all reason, people, why do you waste your time creating a distro that doesn't do the single most imortant thing (running a network card)?
Give me a farking command prompt and busybox, so long as the network card works, and I'll take it from there.
Linux (and Puppy) is a humongous waste of time if it won't start a network card driver. That's BASIC FUNCTIONALITY, and it is ABSENT.
Spending your time creating bells and whistles and graphical goo-gaws is competely unnecessary in the absence of basic functionality, and you are perpetrating a vast waste of human resources by distributing a system that lacks this functionality under the guise of doing so.
I urge everyone involved with Puppy (and Linux) to stop what you are doing right now and ask yourself, "Does it run the hardware?". If the answer is no, then make it so before you code yourself into a tizzy writing graphical crap that does nothing because the hardware is unsupported.
If Linux can't achieve wireless network functionality, then it is time to switch to Windows, despite the obvious drawbacks.
Puppy Is Broken
TROLL ALERT!
Mods: Please despatch to an appropriate corner of the universe, thanks!
No! No! We can't let this one pass? The guy has some humour about him. Maybe he misses a whole bunch of important aspects but he touches some raw nerves too that have beset Linux Ivory Towerists ever since Linus T first released his magnum opus into academia. I know academics - I wuz (sic) one!
When does one man's PhD thesis or one man's hobby gestate into a national, not to say international, treasure?
I imagine that if the likes of our own Dear Leader accepted the Beckam $1m/week offer from the axis of evil in downtown LA, he might be tempted to make Puppy work just about any way the sponsors wanted. Perhaps? On the other hand, think about retirement and the quality of life in Perenjori.
Networking? Wireless? mañana, mañana.
Over to you Gn2. This one could run & run.
When does one man's PhD thesis or one man's hobby gestate into a national, not to say international, treasure?
I imagine that if the likes of our own Dear Leader accepted the Beckam $1m/week offer from the axis of evil in downtown LA, he might be tempted to make Puppy work just about any way the sponsors wanted. Perhaps? On the other hand, think about retirement and the quality of life in Perenjori.
Networking? Wireless? mañana, mañana.
Over to you Gn2. This one could run & run.
just a 'lil -
Pizzasgood
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I had an RT2500 PCI card and it worked great, as did my RT2500usb. Both could use the Windows drivers with Ndiswrapper, or the Linux drivers that come with Puppy.
I don't use Puppy's scripts to set them up though, because the one I got from Bladehunter years ago still works fine. Maybe I should do some slight tweaks to it and upload it as an alternative method.
I have no idea about the PMCIA version (or PMCIA at all), but a little elbow-grease would probably get it going.
I don't use Puppy's scripts to set them up though, because the one I got from Bladehunter years ago still works fine. Maybe I should do some slight tweaks to it and upload it as an alternative method.
I have no idea about the PMCIA version (or PMCIA at all), but a little elbow-grease would probably get it going.
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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marksouth2000
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Re: Puppy Is Broken
Accidentally managed to make a statement that is quite literally correctmcgargle wrote:Linux (and Puppy) is a humongous waste of time if it won't start a network card driver.
We seem to be getting more of these anti-Linux FUD posters every day, is comp.os.linux.advocacy full up or something?
Cheers,
Mark
CLUE
Networking protocol > LAN WAN VPN
Assimilation does not compute.
Phiffishing expedition perhaps ........ or as an old well respected fishing buddy once remarked _
(things were pretty slow that day - the bubble brained fishes mocked all our best attempts)
Now it must be pointed out - He was a traditionalist normally steeped in best of holy fly -fishing attitudes - to the "finer points"
Said he > "To H - -_ With It > Every now'n then a guy just wants to -
lob it out & drag back whatever...... bites" !
If you gets the drift ?
Networking protocol > LAN WAN VPN
Assimilation does not compute.
Phiffishing expedition perhaps ........ or as an old well respected fishing buddy once remarked _
(things were pretty slow that day - the bubble brained fishes mocked all our best attempts)
Now it must be pointed out - He was a traditionalist normally steeped in best of holy fly -fishing attitudes - to the "finer points"
Said he > "To H - -_ With It > Every now'n then a guy just wants to -
lob it out & drag back whatever...... bites" !
If you gets the drift ?
You guys. 
Pizza is the only one who even attempted to address the problem poor mcgargle is having. I've been to the point of throwing up my hands too. Take it easy on him, at least until we get to know him better. 
As for you, mcgargle, your post tells us essentially nothing beyond the fact that you're having trouble. I understand your frustration and anger, but you don't really expect that simply blowing off steam in the forum is going to get you anywhere, do you?
The correct path is to post as concisely as possible but with as much pertinent information as you can think of, then wait patiently for a response. Repeat as necessary. With luck we will converge on a solution.
For starters, can we assume that the wireless network cards in question work in Windows, on the same machine and from the same location as you were trying to use them in Puppy? Cool down and tell us exactly what you've tried in Puppy (what wizards; what steps and settings.) We'll do our best to help, but you have to start the ball rolling.
I suggest we leave this thread until mcgargle replies.
Pizza is the only one who even attempted to address the problem poor mcgargle is having. I've been to the point of throwing up my hands too. Take it easy on him, at least until we get to know him better. As for you, mcgargle, your post tells us essentially nothing beyond the fact that you're having trouble. I understand your frustration and anger, but you don't really expect that simply blowing off steam in the forum is going to get you anywhere, do you?
The correct path is to post as concisely as possible but with as much pertinent information as you can think of, then wait patiently for a response. Repeat as necessary. With luck we will converge on a solution.For starters, can we assume that the wireless network cards in question work in Windows, on the same machine and from the same location as you were trying to use them in Puppy? Cool down and tell us exactly what you've tried in Puppy (what wizards; what steps and settings.) We'll do our best to help, but you have to start the ball rolling.
I suggest we leave this thread until mcgargle replies.
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Lobster
- Official Crustacean
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- Contact:
A new breed of Puppy
Rarsa has created a new network wizard and people can be helped to get their network cards working.
Some time ago I did suggest to people that a new breed of Puppy would be arriving. They expect everything to just work. They expect it now. They expect it to be free.
Oh yes, they expect free support too.
My family are like that. They are all reasonable people and that seems reasonable to them. What should we expect from the new breed of Puppy? We will find that after everything is working. After everything is faster. After they find advantages on a daily basis, they will become our greatest advocates.
So we need to be patient with you Mcgargle and we will try our best Are you willing to give us that opportunity Mcgargle?
I have a friend with wifi. For the last 5 versions of Puppy, I have taken Puppy around and tried to get it 'just working'. It has not.
Now we could sit and fiddle but we can not be bothered. Are we unreasonable?
Yes.
It is part of the human condition.
So perhaps we should start again. Would you like us to try and help you Mcgargle or perhaps you were just clearing your throat?
Incidentally most modern Linuxes DO find wi-fi cards and do just work. Puppy is more compressed and specialised and wifi is a work in progress.
- You will find a dotpup for 14 Jan 2007 that upgrades networking
ftp://ftp.servage.net/puppy-scripts/
download
click on it
restart x (menu / shutdown)
restart network setup wizard
any joy?
Some time ago I did suggest to people that a new breed of Puppy would be arriving. They expect everything to just work. They expect it now. They expect it to be free.Oh yes, they expect free support too.
My family are like that. They are all reasonable people and that seems reasonable to them. What should we expect from the new breed of Puppy? We will find that after everything is working. After everything is faster. After they find advantages on a daily basis, they will become our greatest advocates.
So we need to be patient with you Mcgargle and we will try our best
Are you willing to give us that opportunity Mcgargle?I have a friend with wifi. For the last 5 versions of Puppy, I have taken Puppy around and tried to get it 'just working'. It has not.
Now we could sit and fiddle but we can not be bothered. Are we unreasonable?
Yes.
It is part of the human condition.
So perhaps we should start again. Would you like us to try and help you Mcgargle or perhaps you were just clearing your throat?
Incidentally most modern Linuxes DO find wi-fi cards and do just work. Puppy is more compressed and specialised and wifi is a work in progress.
Last edited by Lobster on Mon 15 Jan 2007, 08:55, edited 1 time in total.
all suggestions are criticism and all criticism is trolling and all trolling is fud, everyone knows that.
puppy is perfect. please vent your frustration on #windows and such forums where it really will cause fud- not here, where it can make a difference or at least give some idea of how much puppy is frustrating you.
puppy is perfect. please vent your frustration on #windows and such forums where it really will cause fud- not here, where it can make a difference or at least give some idea of how much puppy is frustrating you.
Now, amish, no need to react with such sarcasm.amish wrote:all suggestions are criticism and all criticism is trolling and all trolling is fud, everyone knows that.
puppy is perfect. please vent your frustration on #windows and such forums where it really will cause fud- not here, where it can make a difference or at least give some idea of how much puppy is frustrating you.
There is no problem with making suggestions. We all learn faster by making mistakes than by getting it right every time.
There is, however, a problem with unfounded criticism and trolling.
The gentleman in question professes a willingness to work with nothing more than a "command line and busybox", but then declares Puppy in particular AND Linux in general "broken" if they can't deal with his two particular wireless network cards? And that's an excuse to revert to Window$? C'mon, be reasonable! Only a true TROLL would be so provocative with so little provocation!
Window$ doesn't carry half the drivers it should either! That's why you get driver disks from the hardware manufacturers when you buy your hardware. At least Linux tries to take a more generic approach.
At this point, mccargle still hasn't replied. I'll bet that he's just sitting there sniggering at the "do-gooders" who have treated his bait as a real enquiry, and hoping his sentiments will stir the "flames" for his perverse enjoyment in this otherwise very passive, friendly forum.
Please, people. Do not be moved to satisfy this troll's base urges toward disharmony.
Cheers
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marksouth2000
- Posts: 622
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Even though you were being sarcastic, in this particular case the last one happens to be true: "Puppy is broken" indeed}amish wrote:all suggestions are criticism and all criticism is trolling and all trolling is fud, everyone knows that.
Here on this forum we can teach people about Puppy quite easily, and 99% of the time we can get them working with a little patience.
Things we can't easily teach on this forum are:
- patience
- politeness
- respect
And frankly, if someone didn't learn those things by the time they were teenagers, that isn't our problem.
I am not quite sure what else there is to be done or things to be suggested, since the given solution was that everybody in Puppy and Linux development should move into writing hardware drivers. I suppose you have already called Linus Torvalds and told him that he has better things to do than playing and toying with the new kernel? Other than kernel drivers of course.
Now that everybody, who has been involved in quite meaningless tasks, will move into hardware support of Puppy, may I make a polite suggestion? I quite like the MahJoong game, could somebody still remain in programming new versions of that? I would appreciate that.
I am a bit worried about what I have done with Puppy. I did have a wireless network card that did not work off-hand. I won it from my grocery's poll five years ago and it seemed like a good card. Because it did not work in Puppy, I trashed it (yes, I put it to the electronic trash - I am no criminal) and instead I bought a 3 eur network cable from the same grocery and I have been using that ever since. Am I doing something wrong? I can use Puppy quite well, but I am afraid that my solution was kind of stupid?
I am still sad about the wireless network card not working in Puppy. It did work well in Windows 98 at that time. I just needed to install it a few times. During my attempts Windows 98 was corrupted and I had to reinstall it, but that had nothing to do with this issue. I am sure the wireless card is very good and it worked in Windows without any real problems. Why didn't it work in Linux - that worries me a bit.
Now that everybody, who has been involved in quite meaningless tasks, will move into hardware support of Puppy, may I make a polite suggestion? I quite like the MahJoong game, could somebody still remain in programming new versions of that? I would appreciate that.
I am a bit worried about what I have done with Puppy. I did have a wireless network card that did not work off-hand. I won it from my grocery's poll five years ago and it seemed like a good card. Because it did not work in Puppy, I trashed it (yes, I put it to the electronic trash - I am no criminal) and instead I bought a 3 eur network cable from the same grocery and I have been using that ever since. Am I doing something wrong? I can use Puppy quite well, but I am afraid that my solution was kind of stupid?
I am still sad about the wireless network card not working in Puppy. It did work well in Windows 98 at that time. I just needed to install it a few times. During my attempts Windows 98 was corrupted and I had to reinstall it, but that had nothing to do with this issue. I am sure the wireless card is very good and it worked in Windows without any real problems. Why didn't it work in Linux - that worries me a bit.
Mission Statement
* Puppy will easily install to USB, Zip or hard drive media.
* Booting from CD, Puppy will load totally into RAM so that the CD drive is then free for other purposes.
* Booting from CD, Puppy can save everything back to the CD, no need for a hard drive.
* Booting from USB, Puppy will greatly minimise writes, to extend the life of Flash devices indefinitely.
* Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies.
* Puppy will boot up and run extraordinarily fast.
* Puppy will have all the applications needed for daily use.
* Puppy will just work, no hassles.
* Puppy will breathe new life into old PCs
I agree with mcgargle item 8 in the mission statment says that he doesn't need to ask.I must say I'm impressed, most people as stupid enough to give up without asking for help can't type that eloquently.
Auda
Whoa, there, Auda! What you quoted is a "Mission Statement" - IOW a set of ideals toward which Puppy developers strive - not a claim for infallibility!Auda wrote:I agree with mcgargle item 8 in the mission statment says that he doesn't need to ask.
FWIW, even if point 8 WAS indeed a claim rather than an aim, it's language isn't broad enough to justify applying it to every piece of hardware, including any not yet available at the time of writing! That would clearly be ludicrous! A more reasonable interpretation is required:
[Lah me! I'm starting to feel like one of the pigs in Animal Farm! We are well beyond 1984, aren't we?!?]Puppy will just work, no hassles - provided you aren't using some weird piece of hardware no-one has ever heard of!(SIC)
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marksouth2000
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- Joined: Wed 05 Apr 2006, 20:43
Well then (s)he's entitled to get his/her money back. No more, no less.Auda wrote:I agree with mcgargle item 8 in the mission statment says that he doesn't need to ask.
Not being able to make something work does not entitle one to displays of public rudeness, no matter what any mission statement says.
Amnesty International's mission statement includes the release of all political prisoners, would anyone support mcgargle sending them a rude email saying that they are a bunch of twits because they haven't achieved all their goals yet?
Clearly Puppy is not for everyone. Anyone is welcome to ask questions, no-one is welcome to throw unprovoked hissy fits blaming Barry or Linus or the rest of us because they are too impatient to even ask for help.
Mark
