corepup
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i came across mini canbike :
http://www.canbike.org/off-topic/linux/ ... 1-0-1.html
i downloaded the iso, open it and see lots of tcz file in /cde/optional.
I like mini canbike 's idea of running totally in ram but finally gave up becos:
1. i dont want to burn a cd, just want frugal boot
2. i googled and find very little info about tinycore remastering.
I hope this mini canbike (iso file 109mb with firefox41.tcz 51mb) were a puppyfied one that can be boot with only 2 files
i,e. vmlinuz and core.gz (other tcz files can then be loaded on demand as puppy pets). And users can then remaster with a simple built-in remaster script to make their own flavour.
http://www.canbike.org/off-topic/linux/ ... 1-0-1.html
i downloaded the iso, open it and see lots of tcz file in /cde/optional.
I like mini canbike 's idea of running totally in ram but finally gave up becos:
1. i dont want to burn a cd, just want frugal boot
2. i googled and find very little info about tinycore remastering.
I hope this mini canbike (iso file 109mb with firefox41.tcz 51mb) were a puppyfied one that can be boot with only 2 files
i,e. vmlinuz and core.gz (other tcz files can then be loaded on demand as puppy pets). And users can then remaster with a simple built-in remaster script to make their own flavour.
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109 MB including firefox 4.1 is clearly very good. I did a lot of tinycore installations some years ago and certainly you don't need to burn the iso to CD, you can easily get it to boot in frugal configuration with vmlinuz and core gz as you desire. Of course you do also need the tce folder with the tcz's stored in optional, but that's no issue either. Just read up on how to boot tinycore as frugal OS and you should be able to simply extract the necessary files from the iso and write a suitable grub4dos menu.lst to do the booting. Need to add gtkdialog (if not already part of it) and simple job to get many Puppy-created apps/utilities working with it.quirkian2new wrote:i came across mini canbike :
http://www.canbike.org/off-topic/linux/ ... 1-0-1.html
i downloaded the iso, open it and see lots of tcz file in /cde/optional.
I like mini canbike 's idea of running totally in ram but finally gave up becos:
1. i dont want to burn a cd, just want frugal boot
2. i googled and find very little info about tinycore remastering.
I hope this mini canbike (iso file 109mb with firefox41.tcz 51mb) were a puppyfied one that can be boot with only 2 files
i,e. vmlinuz and core.gz (other tcz files can then be loaded on demand as puppy pets). And users can then remaster with a simple built-in remaster script to make their own flavour.
Alternatively, no problem just downloading tinycore iso and creating whatever you like from scratch and making it 'Puppy-like'. Once it is configured (which is the main work to do), these configurations could just be put in their own tcz for loading at boottime (rather than ondemand) for an already setup tinycore system, so that users have no additional work to do... No need to remaster any iso - just provide the additional tcz (or special mydata.tcz) for onboot loading along with the /opt/.filetool.lst and /opt/onboot.lst (or whatever they are called), and the to-be-stored-and-loaded-onbooting tce/optional tcz apps themselves.
Not really new idea - done many times before - but maybe a nice community created puppylike tinycore would indeed benefit from being discussed and created on this forum since this is Puppy-Land afterall and you can certainly produce a smaller PuppyLike system via tinycore than standard Puppy. Usefulness again might depend on the repositories (but I believe tinycore is pretty good for creating tcz's out of Debian repository stuff). Big decision will be in window manager used (most Puppy people won't want the default fltk/flwm - some will want JWM and some openbox no doubt - which are available but setting them up (and the rest of the system) to work as well as in standard Pups is the big job. Best that wanderer just publish what he creates and get ideas and addons to start it all off.
Should it be on tinycore forum instead? Probably not - since the main point is to create a PuppyLike tinycore and that needs Puppy forum expertise as the main priority really. Won't be an official woof-type Pup of course, since not using Puppy boot scripts but tinycore ones (and system design) instead.
wiak
EDIT: No doubt you could remaster the iso once you are happy with your system. Seems to be plenty of info on the tinycore wiki such as:
http://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/?do=searc ... er&button=
EDIT2: One of the posters here suggested size doesn't matter anymore. However, the smaller the resulting OS the more of it you can load into available RAM for fast performance. Uncompressing tcz files or compressing with something like lz4 for less intensive CPU uncompressing is also a method for increasing performance (even if tcz is not loaded into RAM but mounted instead): gives fast decompression at the expense of file storage size.
I have posted this at the top of the thread to clarify what is going on here
This thread is a proposal to start a project that serves the puppy community in 2 ways
1. have a minimalist modular system to use as a base for a new version of puppy
2. have a puppy community development project that everyone who wants to can participate in
we will be using the tinycore (and eventually the dcore) isos
we will keep our system fully compatible with them
because they have long term support
you can participate in this project at least 2 ways
1. read the thread and post your comments
2. go to the tinycore site and download the tinycore iso
set it up and play with it so you become familiar with the system
and then figure out how we should modify them to serve our needs
you might read the documentation
I am working on this at this time
and will post my progress on this thread
wanderer
This thread is a proposal to start a project that serves the puppy community in 2 ways
1. have a minimalist modular system to use as a base for a new version of puppy
2. have a puppy community development project that everyone who wants to can participate in
we will be using the tinycore (and eventually the dcore) isos
we will keep our system fully compatible with them
because they have long term support
you can participate in this project at least 2 ways
1. read the thread and post your comments
2. go to the tinycore site and download the tinycore iso
set it up and play with it so you become familiar with the system
and then figure out how we should modify them to serve our needs
you might read the documentation
I am working on this at this time
and will post my progress on this thread
wanderer
Last edited by wanderer on Sat 17 Sep 2016, 17:49, edited 1 time in total.
Hi wanderer,
I've tried a few times Tinycore in the past but gave up early because I couldn't figure out how to to save changes.
Just now I tried again. I installed pcmanfm choosing OnBoot and it showed on wbar, good.
But after rebooting (chosing Backup) pcmanfm is gone.
I think tinycore is not very intuitive but maybe I'm dumb, (no, just kidding I know I'm not but it's just very new to me)
Please don't call yourself 'dumb', as I'm sure you are not either, maybe that you can give us a 'preview' of your idea and tell us were you get stuck.
From what I understand you'd like to 'puppyfy' tinycore, which means adding puppy applications? or also change the save/backup setup?, sorry, still not clear to me
.
I agree with other posters in this thread when they say something like "Better come up with something you already achieved".
Then someone could say maybe "Hey, I can help you with that" or jump in with some other ideas.
Then it would be much more constructive and more chance of success.
My grub4dos menu.lst entry (on USB pendrive)
Used Tinycore-current iso 16Mb
Fred
I've tried a few times Tinycore in the past but gave up early because I couldn't figure out how to to save changes.
Just now I tried again. I installed pcmanfm choosing OnBoot and it showed on wbar, good.
But after rebooting (chosing Backup) pcmanfm is gone.
I think tinycore is not very intuitive but maybe I'm dumb, (no, just kidding I know I'm not but it's just very new to me)
Please don't call yourself 'dumb', as I'm sure you are not either, maybe that you can give us a 'preview' of your idea and tell us were you get stuck.
From what I understand you'd like to 'puppyfy' tinycore, which means adding puppy applications? or also change the save/backup setup?, sorry, still not clear to me
.
I agree with other posters in this thread when they say something like "Better come up with something you already achieved".
Then someone could say maybe "Hey, I can help you with that" or jump in with some other ideas.
Then it would be much more constructive and more chance of success.
My grub4dos menu.lst entry (on USB pendrive)
Code: Select all
title Tinycore
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz loglevel=3 cde
initrd /boot/core.gz
Fred
hi fred
yes there is a little learning curve
because it is different from the puppys we are used to
the basic way to save changes
boot the iso
when you see the screen with the options come up
and it waits 60 seconds
press tab
then type in home=sda1 tce=sda1 (if sda1 is the drive)
i think it has to be a linux drive but im not sure ill check it
this will make 2 folders on the drive
one called home the other called tce
and all your changes will be saved in these folders
then when you download an app it will be saved in the tce folder
and when you save a file or a setting it will be saved in the home folder
when you boot up again
and reach the options screen with the 60 second wait
press tab
and type in home=sda1 tce=sda1
and the saved settings and apps will be available to you
ask if you have any further questions
ive been playing with it for a while and so ive kind of gotten used to it
thanks for your interest
wanderer
yes there is a little learning curve
because it is different from the puppys we are used to
the basic way to save changes
boot the iso
when you see the screen with the options come up
and it waits 60 seconds
press tab
then type in home=sda1 tce=sda1 (if sda1 is the drive)
i think it has to be a linux drive but im not sure ill check it
this will make 2 folders on the drive
one called home the other called tce
and all your changes will be saved in these folders
then when you download an app it will be saved in the tce folder
and when you save a file or a setting it will be saved in the home folder
when you boot up again
and reach the options screen with the 60 second wait
press tab
and type in home=sda1 tce=sda1
and the saved settings and apps will be available to you
ask if you have any further questions
ive been playing with it for a while and so ive kind of gotten used to it
thanks for your interest
wanderer
Thanks wanderer. I'll try.
Can you also reply on what I previously wrote?:
For trying out different window-managers e.g. jwm, openbox, fluxbox, icewm
Grub4dos menu.lst entries:
Fred
Can you also reply on what I previously wrote?:
For info: tried also CorePlus-current.iso 106MBFredx181 wrote:From what I understand you'd like to 'puppyfy' tinycore, which means adding puppy applications? or also change the save/backup setup?, sorry, still not clear to me
.
I agree with other posters in this thread when they say something like "Better come up with something you already achieved".
Then someone could say maybe "Hey, I can help you with that" or jump in with some other ideas.
Then it would be much more constructive and more chance of success.
For trying out different window-managers e.g. jwm, openbox, fluxbox, icewm
Grub4dos menu.lst entries:
Code: Select all
title Tinycore jwm
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz loglevel=3 cde showapps desktop=jwm
initrd /boot/core.gz
title Tinycore openbox
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz loglevel=3 cde showapps desktop=openbox
initrd /boot/core.gz
title Tinycore fluxbox
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz loglevel=3 cde showapps desktop=fluxbox
initrd /boot/core.gz
title Tinycore icewm
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz loglevel=3 cde showapps desktop=icewm
initrd /boot/core.gz
title Tinycore plus
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz loglevel=3 cde showapps desktop=flwm_topside
initrd /boot/core.gz
fred
sorry it took so long to answer
i think that for a number of reasons initially
it is best to concentrate on modifying just the tinycore iso
we want to keep it compatible with the standard tinycore
so we have the ongoing development from the tinycore people
because of this i see us adding things incrementally to the iso
that make it more puppy like
having it boot to jwm and rox etc instead of flwm
adding wallpapers
making some tcz with puppy apps
then we can add some more boot codes in tc-config
to add options when it boots
and this is where more significant functional changes can be made
because tinycore is such a good system
and we want to stay compatible
we will not want to change the basics
but it could still look and feel very "puppy like"
i will make some isos to test some stuff
and at least post instructions on how to make them
i will also write write up a set of instructions
on how to set things up and how to do basic things
since a lot of this is unfortunately not obvious
however anyone who wants to learn the system
will need to play with the standard tinycore iso first
the end point is to have a minimalist system anyone can modify
and because this is such a small and relatively simple system
that goal can be achieved
if this does answer your question please ask again
wanderer
sorry it took so long to answer
i think that for a number of reasons initially
it is best to concentrate on modifying just the tinycore iso
we want to keep it compatible with the standard tinycore
so we have the ongoing development from the tinycore people
because of this i see us adding things incrementally to the iso
that make it more puppy like
having it boot to jwm and rox etc instead of flwm
adding wallpapers
making some tcz with puppy apps
then we can add some more boot codes in tc-config
to add options when it boots
and this is where more significant functional changes can be made
because tinycore is such a good system
and we want to stay compatible
we will not want to change the basics
but it could still look and feel very "puppy like"
i will make some isos to test some stuff
and at least post instructions on how to make them
i will also write write up a set of instructions
on how to set things up and how to do basic things
since a lot of this is unfortunately not obvious
however anyone who wants to learn the system
will need to play with the standard tinycore iso first
the end point is to have a minimalist system anyone can modify
and because this is such a small and relatively simple system
that goal can be achieved
if this does answer your question please ask again
wanderer
Last edited by wanderer on Sat 17 Sep 2016, 17:52, edited 1 time in total.
Debian do a small net core system, basically boots to a command line and net connected ... that you can then use to pull in any of the programs you want from its large, stable programs repository. Tinycore is small in size, but lost in typical current day hardware, even if that hardware is a decade+ old.
Use Debian's LiveCD version and you can set that up with persistence (saving changes) relatively easy thanks to one of Fred's scripts (modified version of snapmergepuppy/save2flash) and run frugally (almost entire filesystem in a single sfs).
Whenever I look at that chart/tree, I always wonder how much better Linux might have been if all that effort had instead been redirected towards pinning down applications and application stability rather than on what largely equates to a GUI program launcher, presented 1001 different ways.
Use Debian's LiveCD version and you can set that up with persistence (saving changes) relatively easy thanks to one of Fred's scripts (modified version of snapmergepuppy/save2flash) and run frugally (almost entire filesystem in a single sfs).
Sorry Wanderer, I just can't see the viability of adding another branch off TinyCore http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/uplo ... dt1210.png Instead I see it as a lot of time/effort down a dead-end road.you may now want to skip to the end of the thread because a lot of it is just me going on and on trying to convince everyone of the viability of this project
Whenever I look at that chart/tree, I always wonder how much better Linux might have been if all that effort had instead been redirected towards pinning down applications and application stability rather than on what largely equates to a GUI program launcher, presented 1001 different ways.
rufwoof
yeah you are right
the blessing and curse of linux is its diversity
but one size really doesn't fit all
if that was true i would use windows
this little distro works for me
so i'm going to play with it
maybe it will appeal to someone else
and that is the purpose of this thread
to present that option
i'm only amazed that i can use it as my main distro
it does everything i need it to do
what you guys did with debian live is great
but it was too big/complex for me
everyone should keep working on what works for them
how else can they find fulfillment
the greater linux community will not suffer much
from the loss of my meager contribution
best wishes
wanderer
yeah you are right
the blessing and curse of linux is its diversity
but one size really doesn't fit all
if that was true i would use windows
this little distro works for me
so i'm going to play with it
maybe it will appeal to someone else
and that is the purpose of this thread
to present that option
i'm only amazed that i can use it as my main distro
it does everything i need it to do
what you guys did with debian live is great
but it was too big/complex for me
everyone should keep working on what works for them
how else can they find fulfillment
the greater linux community will not suffer much
from the loss of my meager contribution
best wishes
wanderer
I'd like to put some numbers to it to see what "minimal" system means.wanderer wrote: the end point is to have a minimal system anyone can modify
and because this is such a small and relatively simple system
that goal can be achieved
Core 10MB (you can actually can not do much with it assuming it boots your machine)
Firmware, wifi support and some stripped window managers (core-plus iso) +100MB
PCmanFM file manager +15MB
Firefox +65 MB
Abiword +10 MB
geany +1MB
VLC (with the needed audio and video infrastructure) + 20MB
New ISO size 225MB!
And that’s all the applications installed and using the VESA video driver.
NO printing, file sharing, image viewer, cd burning, hardware-specific video drivers, spreadsheet or anything else.
That's from some older notes I found so current numbers are probably higher.
== [url=http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]Here is how to solve your[/url] [url=https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html]Linux problems fast[/url] ==
You seem to have missed the earlier post for an exemplar of what is already out there (I have downloaded and checked: the 109 MB iso size includes Xorg, firefox ver 41 and ffmpeg). 225MB versus 109MB... did I miss something? I haven't tried it yet, but have used tinycore as well as Puppy (and Slitaz) for over eight years now. Yes, a few things not in canbike, such as Abiword, but assuming you want such apps they would not swell the iso to 225MB!:mavrothal wrote: I'd like to put some numbers to it to see what "minimal" system means.
New ISO size 225MB!
And of course, Slitaz is pretty powerful in its 50MB iso (I know, I've used it plenty). Slitaz doesn't include a few of the apps in Puppy, but not off by much.quirkian2new wrote:i came across mini canbike :
http://www.canbike.org/off-topic/linux/ ... 1-0-1.html
...
I hope this mini canbike (iso file 109mb with firefox41.tcz 51mb) were a puppyfied one that can be boot with only 2 files
So I really think wanderer is correct that a small puppyfied tinycore can be much smaller than a standard Puppy.
Doesn't make it better than a Puppy or any other OS of course - it's just an alternative. I think wanderer is looking for something more easily built to a user's needs rather than having to learn woof (which probably requires more expert skills), and tiny core is probably good for that being so modular. Of course you could build a huge tiny core system, but very easy to take out tcz's or add them in as user wants.
wiak
yes
to me
its not about the total size of the full system
because if you add 1000 applications its probably going to get bigger
its about the size and simplicity of the core
easy to understand and modify
and the modularity of the extensions
each piece independent and self contained
each easy to understand and modify on its own
and then these can be put together in an infinite number of ways
to get exactly what you want each time
anyway puppy tinycore and debian-dog are all great
this just gives the puppy community another option
hopefully a simple and manageable enough one
that anyone can use and modify it
but lets take it slow and easy
thankfully this is both useful ... and fun
wanderer
to me
its not about the total size of the full system
because if you add 1000 applications its probably going to get bigger
its about the size and simplicity of the core
easy to understand and modify
and the modularity of the extensions
each piece independent and self contained
each easy to understand and modify on its own
and then these can be put together in an infinite number of ways
to get exactly what you want each time
anyway puppy tinycore and debian-dog are all great
this just gives the puppy community another option
hopefully a simple and manageable enough one
that anyone can use and modify it
but lets take it slow and easy
thankfully this is both useful ... and fun
wanderer
Yes, that works, well... did a little different, I modified my menu.lst (using core-plus iso):wanderer wrote:the basic way to save changes
boot the iso
when you see the screen with the options come up
and it waits 60 seconds
press tab
then type in home=sda1 tce=sda1 (if sda1 is the drive)
i think it has to be a linux drive but im not sure ill check it
this will make 2 folders on the drive
one called home the other called tce
Code: Select all
title Tinycore-plus openbox
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz loglevel=3 cde showapps waitusb=5 desktop=openbox tce=sdb2
initrd /boot/core.gz
First I tried tce=sdb1 but it seems not allowed to have both cde and tce on one partition, see here:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=12357.0
That's disappointing , cannot work on a usb drive that contains one partition only (I mean you always need another drive (e.g. sda) or partition to save apps installed).
Next I tried to change resolution to 1200x800 , no way it's possible with Xvesa ,tried Mini-canbike also and it works OK (has Xorg installed) so probably it should be possible with Tinycore but how...
EDIT: found the trick for using one partition only, just rename 'cde' to 'tce' before first use, that way it will load the basic apps (in formerly named folder cde, now tce) but will also continue saving new installed apps (as it's now named 'tce')
Then menu.lst entry can be (using tce=sdb1) :
Code: Select all
title Tinycore-plus openbox
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz loglevel=3 cde showapps waitusb=5 desktop=openbox tce=sdb1
initrd /boot/core.gz
Actually yes.wiak wrote:You seem to have missed the earlier post for an exemplar of what is already out there (I have downloaded and checked: the 109 MB iso size includes Xorg, firefox ver 41 and ffmpeg). 225MB versus 109MB... did I miss something?mavrothal wrote: I'd like to put some numbers to it to see what "minimal" system means.
New ISO size 225MB!
No wifi or any extended hardware support.
The current CorePlus ISO is 105MB practically without any apps. Give it a try and see for yourself.
As I mentioned earlier I have build a fair number of custom tinycore versions since Tinycore 2x, so I have some idea of its strengths and weaknesses.
Building a specific version for your specific hardware with a specific set of apps, is really its strong point. Building a ISO for general audience is rather ineffective to say the least.
But as wanderer suggested, try it!
== [url=http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]Here is how to solve your[/url] [url=https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html]Linux problems fast[/url] ==
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Pupngo was 6MB, and actually worked for me: https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_pUPnGOwiak wrote:So I really think wanderer is correct that a small puppyfied tinycore can be much smaller than a standard Puppy.
Not sure what exactly makes the big difference between CorePlus ISO (106MB) and the Tinycore ISO (16MB)mavrothal wrote:No wifi or any extended hardware support.
The current CorePlus ISO is 105MB practically without any apps. Give it a try and see for yourself.
Well.. just guessing, CorePlus has 5 different window-managers included and wifi app with some firmware.
Anyway, just for info, I added on top of the 16MB Tinycore ISO: pcmanfm and firefox-ESR, and the total size became *only* 85MB (core.gz + vmlinuz + tce folder (cde renamed to tce)).
EDIT: There might be a issue running as regular user 'tc' because most puppy users are used as to being 'root' , e.g. I had problems to access my hard-drive partitions (permission denied )
Fred