How to update Puppy's system files?

[Pupnovice]

Hi folks,

We have been using various flavours of puppy linux here for the past 8 years and enjoy the lightweight and "snappy" response of puppy linux but...

For the past couple of years I have also been playing with a raspberrypi (which also runs under a version of linux based on debian) and it receives regular updates to the system files almost weekly to address bugs or security flaws etc.

My question is this, how do you update the system files in puppy linux if (for example) you wanted to address the "dirty cow" security issue recently identified.

I know linux is inherantly more secure than (spits on the ground) Windoze but given that puppy runs as "root" most of the time it made me think its time I looked into how updating system files in puppy is done. I would appreciate any pointers.

Thanks for reading this.

Pupnovice.

[Flash]

I suppose you'd start by replacing the kernel, a job that would have to include updating any drivers you'd installed that didn't come with the new kernel. (Drivers must be compiled for the kernel they'll be used with.)

[bigpup]

With Puppy, it usually takes moving up to using a newer or latest version of Puppy.
No one really keeps up on providing these types of updates to older versions of Puppy.

Slacko has an update feature that uses stuff from Slackware repository. So, it offers to update to whatever Slackware is offering.

Tahrpup has an updates/bug fix feature, but it is only as good as the Tahrpup developer, who is the one providing the updates.

[peterw]

Hi

I agree with the statements by Flash and Bigpup. I see that you have a Raspberry Pi, if it is a version 2 or 3 then you could try Quirky 8.1 on it. Quirky is not a Puppy but is related to it. Barry K. who started Puppy makes it and it has an update feature - I think.

Another feature of Puppy, that people who know Linux but not Puppy don't realise, is that if you do a frugal install then you can create a Puppy save file so that it remembers your changes. If you delete or rename that file then it forgets everything including any unwanted stuff. When you next boot it will ask you if you want to create a new one. It means that if you are ever attacked then it is easy to start again. Indeed you can save those old save files as a backup if you really wanted.

Having said all this, I have ever heard of anyone getting caught out on Puppy.

peterw

[Pupnovice]

Hi Flash, bigpup & peterw,

Many thanks for taking the time to reply and for your feedback.

Its a little disturbing that no formal updating process exists for most puppies though I must admit I have never had any security issues that I am aware of with puppy Linux and I will continue to use it simply because its so convenient.

Perhaps not the first choice for on-line banking but still one of the most lean, fastest and simple Linux distros around. Great for use as a recovery tool to when Windoze crashes

Thanks again for responding folks.

Regards,

Pupnovice

[Burn_IT]

It would be one of my first choices for online banking mainly because it is so easy to keep it clean.

[Mike Walsh]

Hi, Pupnovice.

TBH, most of the supposed 'updates' that Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, et al churn out on an almost daily basis are, quite simply, updates for the sake of updates; 95% of them don't actually fix anything to any great degree.

Ubuntu & Mint, in particular, are doing their level best to attract as many ex-Windoze users as they possibly can.....and if there's one thing that a Windoze user is accustomed to, it's constant, never-ending updates. Since they're used to them, they expect them.....because (in many cases) having never used anything else besides Windows, they don't know any different.

And so they are re-assured.

But, as peterw says, because of Puppy's absolutely unique method of operation, it is so easy to 'start over' again, if you should get attacked online. Which is almost as unique an occurrence as the existence of hen's teeth; all but non-existent.

Yes, with Pups, you just upgrade to a newer Pup, 'cos they're so quick, simple & easy to install. And installing all your progs, apps, and customizations takes a fraction of the time it does in Windoze.....


Mike.

[rufwoof]

TBH, most of the supposed 'updates' that Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, et al churn out on an almost daily basis are, quite simply, updates for the sake of updates; 95% of them don't actually fix anything to any great degree.

I don't see that many updates whilst running Debian Stable (Jessie). Those things that are updated tending to make it even more stable. And they keep you current with the central Debian stable repository, so once installed once, updates will roll through and enable the same system to be continued to be used, conceptually indefinitely but in practice limited by hardware lifetime. Security fixes come through very quick.

If you boot Debian Jessie frugally (with optional save session or not), then its like having the best of both worlds.

[greengeek]

Its a little disturbing that no formal updating process exists for most puppies.

The design philosophy of Puppy is different to the big distros - Puppy intends to let you run a competent system in the smallest footprint that still allows user friendly setups. The downside of that is it forces the user to take control of their computing habits, and their backups/system admin etc.

By contrast the big distros allow you to relinquish hands-on maintenance and let the system take control. A bit like Windows really.

The real question is - how much do you trust the updates that the big distros push through. Do you really believe that each update is foolproof and perfect? Personally I do not. As an example look at the ssl updates that were released - some of them included more serious bugs than earlier versions.

But if you are more comfortable having someone else set up the security level of your system why would you not choose to stick with one of the big distros. What are the downsides for you of doing that?

Perhaps not the first choice for on-line banking

I would be interested in peoples opinions about which would be the first choice for online banking:
- Apple?
- Android?
- Windows?
- Some version of Linux (which one?)

[Mike Walsh]

I've been doing my on-line banking with Puppy ever since I started using it. I run a cache cleaner, and uBlock origin.....and delete the cache & history immediately after visiting my bank's site. I've never yet fallen prey to any of the on-line banking Trojans, or anything remotely similar.....and even if I did, there's hardly enough in my accounts to make it worth anybody's while!


Mike.

[nic007]

I unmount all my drives when going on the internet. No savefile but an adrv (which is read-only) saves any changes to the system when I want to do so (browser cache always deleted). Size of adrive is about 3MB.

[Flash]

Then there's multisession Puppy. It don't get no respect, even though it's obviously the best of all possible ways to run an operating system.

Multisession Puppy is not installed in a hard disk, where changes overwrite original files; changes are recorded (if desired) in sessions on the Puppy DVD. No matter how many sessions have been saved on the DVD, a multisession Puppy DVD can ignore them all and boot as a pristine Puppy (with puppy pfix=ram). Specific sessions may be ignored at boot (It's been so long that I forget how, but I know it can be done), then inspected for forensic purposes, if desired. Try that with a hard disk installation.

[nic007]

Then there's multisession Puppy. It don't get no respect, even though it's obviously the best of all possible ways to run an operating system.

Multisession Puppy is not installed in a hard disk, where changes overwrite original files; changes are recorded (if desired) in sessions on the Puppy DVD. No matter how many sessions have been saved on the DVD, a multisession Puppy DVD can ignore them all and boot as a pristine Puppy (with puppy pfix=ram). Specific sessions may be ignored at boot (It's been so long that I forget how, but I know it can be done), then inspected for forensic purposes, if desired. Try that with a hard disk installation.

The slow startup and then waiting again to wait for the changes to burn to DVD will drive me crazy...but it is the safest option.

[Flash]

Nic007, have you tried using Puppy from a multisession DVD? I mean giving it an honest chance over a few weeks or so, not just booting it once and saying that's not for me.

[drunkjedi]

I have never tried it on DVD but when in Fatdog64 631, I had used multisession on hard drive.
and the savefiles created where very small.
I don't think they would take much time when used with DVD.
I remember smokey or someone was exclusively using BR disk in multisession mode with fatdog.

And yes you can instruct at boot time to not load some sessions some boot parameters that I don't remember exactly.

[nic007]

Nic007, have you tried using Puppy from a multisession DVD? I mean giving it an honest chance over a few weeks or so, not just booting it once and saying that's not for me.

I think it is an excellent system, just nor for me as I run several operating systems (including a few puppys) and do several reboots during the day. I do have experience of copying from and burning to CD's which is slow comparing to working with any other storage media. I remember the days of copying the base sfs from cd to RAM..SLOW. I have frugal installs to HDD. My bootup time is about 15 seconds (which includes copying the base sfs, adrv, ydrv with about 100mb of sfs addons and the zdrv into ram), and then a session save to adrv takes 5 seconds. I'm basically doing multi-session from HDD.