Minimalist Base Distro

[sheldonisaac]

Ok here is Lucid 5.28.005 Barebones build as with the 5.25 build there is no cups, no Abiword, no multimedia, no Pupzip xarchive and no Browsers - just run a portable one the libraries are still there to do that.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/puppy-l ... o/download

Thanks.
May I ask for help booting it?
It can't find the lupu_528.sfs
and drops out to a "#"

[darry1966]

I'm checking the download from Sourceforge, their html uploader does queer things sometimes, my copy was tested before uploading anyway I'll recheck the one from there.

P.s. Some drivers for wireless may need to loaded from separate zdrive in network manager, as this the option I choose in woofy for drivers during remastering.

[sheldonisaac]

I'm checking the download from Sourceforge, their html uploader does queer things sometimes, my copy was tested before uploading anyway I'll recheck the one from there.

Maybe it requires some particular things on the kernel line?

(for example, the 214X version on my older computer did)

Thanks.

[darry1966]

Hi Sheldonistic,

Runs fine from here went into X fine and online. This is from the Sourceforge version rather than the copy of my original. Sorry this version of 5.28 hasn't worked for you.

Darren.

[partsman]

Hello wanderer and all

I think Iguleder has made some interesting points to consider !
And I agree ! Don't confuse ram usage with cpu usage/being slow !

I did take the time to look at pUPnGO ! And its very cool ! But Its begging for a newer kernel etc.

The long winded scripts in puppy/software is what slows down a fast nimble
system ! This is what causes high cpu usage !

Running in ram is the way to go ! Which is how I prefer to run puppy !
EVERYTHING in ram !

With machines these days ! There is no shortage of ram !

Just some food for thought here !
But I would consider what Iguleder has to say !

[goingnuts]

Changing kernel in pupngo can be done as have been shown.
Kernel independent initrd.gz is possible view pupngo2012.

The pUPnGO_V216_231213.iso showed the ability of pupngo to run P216, P300, P412 and wary5.3 loaded as sfs after boot. Same was done with BL3 and Xwoaf. It might be that pupngo can load most 32bit distros on top...

Question is which kernel to use? Ideally create the core to run with several kernels chosen at boot by the user - and after boot choose which flavor of puppy to run on top?

I am not pushing pupngo - but pointing at questions/features needed to be addressed if a "puppy-core" is to be made.

[darry1966]

"Puppy core" is hard one as it seems everyone has different idea what that should be. I like taking a Puppy and making a minimal Pupplet and running what I need and a portable browser. That is not everyone's cup of tea.

I like running Lucid thank you Dima for your sermon knew most of that anyway, but I don't feel unsafe running an older Pup running a modern browser.

May be produce Barebones of mainline pups as they are released otherwise remaster your own - it is fun.

[technosaurus]

Slitaz has some really nice tools to configure preferences and do general setup using busybox httpd. The great part about this method is that things can be graphically configured from X or console. Most of them just use basic html forms so they work in links or ed browser, but have additional css and/or javascript to supplement.

Advantages
99% of the gtkdialog programs could be ported to this method.
access to lots of apps (didi wiki, pplog,...)
no gui toolkit dependency
future proof
httpd + netsurf-framebuffer uses less RAM than gtkdialog

Disadvantages
Security - you need to ensure hosts.deny=all and hosts.allow=localhost on that instance of httpd.

[rufwoof]

"Puppy core" is hard one as it seems everyone has different idea what that should be. I like taking a Puppy and making a minimal Pupplet and running what I need and a portable browser. That is not everyone's cup of tea.

Ditto. Minimal core puppy booted frugally, portable firefox for general browsing, download script to grab the latest (fresh) copy of firefox from Mozilla for online banking ... and strive to keep the core pup lean, everything else loaded as SFS's. No savefile, just remaster any changes to the core if/when required (using a less than 10 second remaster script). 66MB ISO for the core.

I additionally have links to Cloud based 'topdog' as I call it, that bloats out the core pup to a more bulk standard pup (Abiword, gnumeric ...etc). And then other SFS's for Skype, Libre Office ...etc. Boot, couple of sfs's loaded and the core minimalist pup evolves into a full-blown Office pup.

My core includes Samba, so it networks in with other Windows etc. PC's on the LAN (I also include VNC and PXE in the core so that other PC's can remote control or be net (PXE) booted).

I love the read-only, reboots the exact same every time choice. I'm so used to trying things out without the worry of screwing the system/configuration up (reboot has it all back to square one again) that I sometimes forget the care that has to be taken when trying things out on other systems.

Spoilt and it makes it very hard to consider reverting/adopting the alternatives. Even more spoilt more recently as each of my 5 puppy desktops now have different backgrounds and different icons on each, which makes even other pup's with common desktop icons on each desktop less attractive. I've only recently finished implementing such 5 independent desktops and still ironing out some bugs - but otherwise its running great - I've adopted a 5 different desktops/icons theme http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 810#873810, with the first desktop more or less for initial boot, 2nd desktop for adding TopDog (other sfs's), 3rd desktop being for general work, 4th for dragging/dropping stuff onto for later saving and the 5th being for closure/shutdown.

Desktop 1 - Dark Years - initial boot and creation


Desktop 2 - Nebula - downloading and/or installing other SFS's


Desktop 3 - Fruitful - main work desktop for use when browsing, editing ...etc.


Desktop 4 Twilight - Used as a store of work files in readiness for saving to the Cloud or USB or wherever prior to shutdown


Desktop 5 Closure - Shutdown preparation and activation


And all runs in ram, so very fast.

I've set mine to have left mouse-click of the desktop bring up the menu. So between multiple desktops (icon sets) and 'tap' type control navigation/control is simple and portable (whether using smart phone and vnc or desktop keyboard/mouse).

I went with Wary 5.3 barebone for the core pup, laid ontop of a recent kernel (taken from Slacko 6 so supports more recent hardware (firmware/modules)), with Wary 5.5 topdog (abi word etc.) and XVesa graphics server that more or less boots to desktop and net connected (wired) on a very wide range of hardware.

66MB ISO is when using high compression (xz -e), Non compressed its around 220MB of which around half of that is firmware/modules. For fast lzop compression the ISO is around half that (110MB) - which is my preferred default choice (nice balance IMO between compression/size reduction and compression/decompression speeds).

[wanderer]

hi all

There are many ways to build a minimal/modular system and each has its virtues and fans. The system I am talking about requires a very small very basic core and independent (and as small and simple as possible) components that can be added as needed. The only 2 systems I am aware of that can do this are tinycore and pupngo. Tinycore is already being developed so that is not an issue. Pupngo is such a system and as goingnuts has demonstrated again and again it can be made to do almost anything. I remember when goingnuts and technosaurus were working on pupngo and it was mind boggling. I am playing with an older version of pupngo that has all the components needed for the system i am talking about but i dont know if goingnuts has any advice about using another one of his creations instead.

the pupngo system as i see it consists of

1. initrd -boot the system
2. core.sfs - busybox (init ash vi) console
3. basic x sfs - i prefer gtk1 but whatever
4. a save.2fs file
5. pet files
6. additional sfs files

to save processor load and filesystem complexity i think it would be better to load the smaller components as pets into the save file and if needed the larger components could be added as sfs files. Goingnuts has already created the system now the next step is to get a usable distro together so everyone can play and become familiar with it. Even i can do this eventually. I leave the genius stuff (improving things) up to the geniuses (goingnuts and technosaurus).

In summation in my mind there is no question that pupngo is the puppy version of this system and it is way too cool to be wasted. I will continue to play with pupngo and tinycore because it makes sense to me and its fun. I encourage others to do so as well.

wanderer

[greengeek]

In my opinion a modular puppy should be capable of doing the following:
1) Boot straight to a functional X server on any hardware. (ie: recent xorgwizard or better) without issues. (ie: default handling of the hardware becomes the first priority - long before personalisations of any kind. Even the choice of kernel could be part of this).
2) Apply a Puppy "skin" over the top of whatever the first boot offered as a working desktop, (ie: jwm, puppy menus, standard basic puppy programs and wallpaper)
3) Allow the user to add whatever programmatic .sfs they wanted on top of the initial boot environment and Puppy skin.
4) Offer the user the ability to save personalisations (wifi setup, program setup, printer setup etc etc) piece by piece (ie not a snapshot of the whole shooting match), or else a shutdown with no saves at all (ie a return to pristine boot at next session). Let the user decide what they want remembered.
5) Offer the option of "generic reproduction" so that every puppy can "clone" itself to CD or usb stick without personalisations. Just in case the user likes it and wants to give their best mate a copy.

[technosaurus]

Now that we can use devtmpfs we don't need to manually populate /dev from sys but it may be useful to have something other than udev for hotplugging so that we can have the same functionality in xfbdev/Xvesa as in Xorg. Using those instead of Xorg allows us to include a working desktop into the kernel image.

But that's with a cutdown version of jwm without SVG support, right?

... nope!

I patched jwm to be able to use nanosvg instead of rsvg+cairo+glib+associated dependencies
...and while I was at it used stb_image to replace libpng and libjpeg, while adding support for gif, bmp, tga, pic, psd and a couple of other image formats.

I need to add scaling the nanosvg code for recent changes to jwm's ]image scaling and figure out how to get --enable-stb-image and --enable-nanosvg into the configure script.

It is actually smaller with those statically built in and uses less than half the resources.

jwm can set desktop backround images/colors too, so the only thing left for rox is the antiquated idea of desktop icons ... well that and the disk icons, Akita used a tray and now that jwm supports 0-9 and a-z _dynamic_, menus we can put the options right onto the icon without needing rox (just regenerate the menu and run jwm -reload on drive events)

[gcmartin]

@RufWoof has done a very creditable contribution in his distro for our understanding and use.

In his distro, it allows the user to set it onto the home LAN providing a service where ANY other PC can boot WITHOUT using any of its local peripherals to do so. Any LAN PC, just powers on and his OS is pulled from this running distro.

Benefit of @Rufwoof distro are many, but to name a few:

• It is small and fast
• It does not interfere in normal LAN operations
• And, IMPORTANT TO THIS DISCUSSION, the OS/distro that is served to other LAN PCs can be as small as you want or any other distro you want that LAN PC to boot. Thus it could be the offering from @GoingNUTs or one from @BarryK or one from @StemSee or ... Further, the served distro size could be 6MB or 6000MB; either way it allows @RufWoof's distro to be a major assist to getting work onto another PC on the LAN without struggling with any local needs at that PC

On another note:
@GoingNUTs produced a major contribution over a year ago which is largely not understood, IMHO. He has produced a service that allows ANY OS on ANY modern PC to log onto a running PUP...including his distro to get a FULL DESKTOP EXPERIENCE without any need to install anything on any other PCs. Thus no need to install VNC clients and wrestle with issues or wrestle with keys needed for other clients or ...

This is not SSH.

Why is this important. RDP an encrypting protocol used by clients that are built into the OS of MACs, Windows, Unix, and Puppy Linux, etc. Thus on any of the PCs just mentioned, NOTHING need be installed. From any of those PCs, you can access an PC that has @GoingNUTs utility installed. Thus install his once where it will serve desktops, and access a desktop to it without installing anything anywhere else by using what is already built into your PC. He has brought simplicity to PUPPY for accessing a full X desktop from anywhere in the home as if you were sitting at the console of the PC with his service subsystem.

These 2 provisions by these 2 authors, along with the other ideas from @GoingNuts and @Technosaurus and others, should be understood as it makes use of our home networks to meet the needs of building, testing, adjusting and fixing of any distro which surfaces out of this project.

Puppy or any modern concept MUST take into account that we live in a world of networks: local in the home and outside of the home.

Thus what is done can have benefit beyond what occurs on a single PC you are typing on.

Edited: The last sentence change from has to can have.

[Keef]

MUST

Err... no.

[rufwoof]

@RufWoof has done a very creditable contribution in his distro for our understanding and use.

In his distro, it allows the user to set it onto the home LAN providing a service where ANY other PC can boot WITHOUT using any of its local peripherals to do so. Any LAN PC, just powers on and his OS is pulled from this running distro.

Benefit of @Rufwoof distro are many, but to name a few:

• It is small and fast
• It does not interfere in normal LAN operations
• And, IMPORTANT TO THIS DISCUSSION, the OS/distro that is served to other LAN PCs can be as small as you want or any other distro you want that LAN PC to boot. Thus it could be the offering from @GoingNUTs or one from @BarryK or one from @StemSee or ... Further, the served distro size could be 6MB or 6000MB; either way it allows @RufWoof's distro to be a major assist to getting work onto another PC on the LAN without struggling with any local needs at that PC

On another note:
@GoingNUTs produced a major contribution over a year ago which is largely not understood, IMHO. He has produced a service that allows ANY OS on ANY modern PC to log onto a running PUP...including his distro to get a FULL DESKTOP EXPERIENCE without any need to install anything on any other PCs. Thus no need to install VNC clients and wrestle with issues or wrestle with keys needed for other clients or ...

This is not SSH.

Why is this important. RDP an encrypting protocol used by clients that are built into the OS of MACs, Windows, Unix, and Puppy Linux, etc. Thus on any of the PCs just mentioned, NOTHING need be installed. From any of those PCs, you can access an PC that has @GoingNUTs utility installed. Thus install his once where it will serve desktops, and access a desktop to it without installing anything anywhere else by using what is already built into your PC. He has brought simplicity to PUPPY for accessing a full X desktop from anywhere in the home as if you were sitting at the console of the PC with his service subsystem

Mine http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 518#871518 already includes goingnuts' rdesktop/vnc. There was a bug that I've just corrected/uploaded where rdesktop wouldn't connect because the remaster process was leaving a lock flag in place such that at next reboot xrdp service wouldn't start up thinking it was already running.

I've also fixed some bugs in the multiple desktops (different desktop backgrounds and icons on each desktop). But a couple that I know of are still outstanding (system time setting using puppy menu, and under more extreme desktop switching (rapid scroll-wheel whizzing on desktop) can leave you at the wrong desktop. Also in some cases drive icons aren't always removed (but are inactive) after a USB is pulled out. In both cases switching to another desktop resolves that.

Bear in mind that my ISO/pup is open. Starts with Samba server loaded so other PC's (Windows etc) on the LAN can see from / down (everythings). Starts wth VNC/RDP server running, so anyone on the LAN can vnc/rdesktop in and control the PC. PXE (net booting) isn't activated at startup as you have to remaster first (so that it has a vmlinuz and initrd to serve up to Windows/Linux PC clients). All drives are mounted, and plugging in a USB again mounts that and all other drives. No firewall activated (as that blocks most of the services), so you're reliant upon your router/cable modems firewall for protection.

66MB ISO, but if you click the loadtopdog script in home directory then it expands the pup to being more like full-blown Wary. There's also a firefox script in the home directory that pulls down/runs the latest firefox. Best to avoid remastering after loading of any additional sfs's or firefox and keep the core pup lean.

[gcmartin]

Thus any already running OS in a LAN PC, without installing or modifying anything, can get an X-desktop on @RufWoof's distro and operate as if they were sitting at its console.

An example. his distro is setup and running in a closet/attic/basement/out of sight with no keyboard, mouse, or monitor and he can control it from other PCs in the house without having to add anything to the PCs in the house. A Windows/MAC/Linux user simply opens their RDP client and logon to a desktop on @Rufwoof's PC. Nothing installed. This can be done using a smartPhone/smartTablet by opening its RDP app enclosed from the Play Store(s).

Remember, this is not a suggestion but an option that could be useful. These authors bring GREAT functionality to the table for using Puppy Linux in so many ways, beyond the great things that mainline PUPs have been doing over the years.

Puppy enables so much in many useful ways. What I find extremely important is how @RufWoof, @ETP, @, and others have taken the general purpose capability of Puppy Linux and applied it for something practical in the home. These productions are tailored for some specific benefit in the home use.

Great ideas from all trying to help

[darry1966]

Here is a new build based on Lucid Maverick 001 it has drivers in iso no separate zdrive. I have included xarchiver and frisbee .pets as well in the same location.


http://sourceforge.net/projects/puppy-l ... lds/files/

Original Lucid Maverick Info: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=59990



Thanks to Ally files also here with many other fine Barebones choices:https://archive.org/download/PuppyLinux_barebones

One last build based 5.11 Lucid:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/puppy-l ... o/download

[gcmartin]

Another practical use which might be a wide-spread use would be to have a PUP distro specifically designed to run a WOOFCE builder for new PUPs, as its mission. Boot it, drags some needed info to an on-screen bucket, and push go to wait for it to spit out a brand new, tailored distro.

There are other good practical apps beyond those we see.

[rufwoof]

An example. his distro is setup and running in a closet/attic/basement/out of sight with no keyboard, mouse, or monitor and he can control it from other PCs in the house without having to add anything to the PCs in the house. A Windows/MAC/Linux user simply opens their RDP client and logon

Just verified that to be sure. Unplugged monitor, keyboard and mouse. Powered on the puppy PC - waited a minute for it to boot/settle and from a Windows PC RDP's into the Puppy PC and had full screen/mouse/keyboard control OK.

There is a web server in the googledrive repository, so conceptually a CD based version with no HDD's could be identified to the router as being in the DMZ and be accessible externally. One of those timer switch plugs that power off/on the PC once/day could reset the image back to 'pristine' and if the web pages were static they could be remastered into the read only (CD) core.

Or keep the pup behind the router firewall so that other LAN PC's can PXE net boot a local (to PC) puppy, or just RDP/VNC a remote puppy desktop from within Windows.

Open up port 5900 I think it is on the firewall and you could remote VNC into the pup from anywhere.

I suspect the more ideal hardware for this pup if being run as a 'server' would be a solid state device, no fans or other mechanical fire-risk hardware, just a pure electronics board. A x86 type version of a Raspberry Pi type thing. As a 'client' it works well on a wide range of kit from relatively old to relatively new, thanks to employing XVesa and a late kernel (with up to date firmware/modules). I intentionally strived to make it generic.

[technosaurus]

Another practical use which might be a wide-spread use would be to have a PUP distro specifically designed to run a WOOFCE builder for new PUPs, as its mission. Boot it, drags some needed info to an on-screen bucket, and push go to wait for it to spit out a brand new, tailored distro.

There are other good practical apps beyond those we see.

I've been on about that for a long time. We already have multiple files in $HOME/,packages, so why not add a separate one for metapackages? I could see gnome{1,2,3}-suite/lite, kde{3,4,5}-suite/lite, xfce{3,4}-suite/lite, rox, classic puppy-{x.xx} etc... where they only have dependencies.

Why have puplets when you can just have "flavors" that you can install on top of a light base or even on top of your favorite set of flavors.

... but I would not start with woofCE. Iguleder had a much better system that wasn't filled with tons of clutter