Puppy 2.15CE "Viz" - Development Ideas/Requests

[WhoDo]

In particular I find most users prefer MUT, I know I do
- though Barry uses pmount

Actually, I thought Barry was going to look at whether he could do anything with MUT since Jesse allegedly went missing? If enough community members want a return to MUT, that's what will happen. I wanted everyone to experience the modified Pmount, with it's Rox icons and mounted sizes, etc.

Things I miss

the right click on desktop for menu in JWM
(this can I believe be done in IceWM?)

Also allegedly. I have tried in vain to get that running under Icewm 1.2.30 without success. The configuration option is there, but has no effect on the right click option.

Kill

MTpaint 3.10 locked on me (boo!)
and I needed to kill - from the menu guys - not the prompt
nope - no option as in JWM

Start>Control Panel>KP Manage running processes>Kill

Composer - had to download NVU just to edit an HTML file
(I no longer hand code - thank you very much)

HTML editing is not a mainstream application for most users. In Puppy 2.15CE Standard Edition, download the editor of your choice. Looking at Bluefish for inclusion in Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition, but that may fall prey to size problems.

Thanks Warren, thanks Vincent

You're welcome! (and woof from Vincent, I'm sure).

[amish]

actually lobster, if you right click mtpaint (no frozen app necessary!) again, you'll eventually find the window that comes up so you can kill it in ice. pity that it's not like jwm, the kill feature in jwm is what keeps me from instaling something more beautiful like open box. it's just so useful.

i also love composer. used it today. i actually hand coded the table and the original <br> tags, but composer let me do the rest like i would in abiword or something. what a cool app (and i am a strict hand coder normally) i don't recommend it for editing whole pages, unless you want to remove entire columns from tables- it's got tons of tricks. and of course, nvu is the same thing.

you can see what i used it for in this post about grand unified puppy: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 330#100330 of course, if seamonkey was eschewed for opera, you could put nvu in the core, or maybe one of the other .sfs files. there's probably room in both

another thing nvu is awesome for is removing picture tags from offline sites. and of course, you can use it to make websites without learning html, which is a fantastic and underrated feature.

[Lobster]

Actually, I thought Barry was going to look at whether he could do anything with MUT since Jesse allegedly went missing? If enough community members want a return to MUT, that's what will happen. I wanted everyone to experience the modified Pmount, with it's Rox icons and mounted sizes, etc.

The code for MUT was I believe already modified by Barry and pmount has been improved.
Well I have tried both and Mut works (usually with SDA, from what I remember) where pmount does not. It is either up to you or a poll vote if anyone organises it . . . (or at an IRC meeting if anyone organises that) Just set a time that works for you for the first meet . . . Hey Amish there is something for you to set up?

Things I miss

the right click on desktop for menu in JWM
(this can I believe be done in IceWM?)

Also allegedly. I have tried in vain to get that running under Icewm 1.2.30 without success. The configuration option is there, but has no effect on the right click option.

OK well both Nathan and Guestoo will be able to help with this. Maybe others.
G2 is a great advocate of IceWm and ameniable to PM (private messages)

Kill

MTpaint 3.10 locked on me (boo!)
and I needed to kill - from the menu guys - not the prompt
nope - no option as in JWM

Start>Control Panel>KP Manage running processes>Kill

N o o o o ! ! ! that is far too much (right click and kill is what I want) the other option from way back is we had a bomb icon - it is a minor thing and is probably due to using Alpha software . . . oh well . . .

HTML editing is not a mainstream application for most users. In Puppy 2.15CE Standard Edition, download the editor of your choice. Looking at Bluefish for inclusion in Puppy 2.15CE Office Edition, but that may fall prey to size problems.

Yes I totally agree. I would suggest Geany which has HTML colour coded will also suffice. The truth is that usually except for the quickest tweak, I download NVU or more usually Komposer (though Komposer needs extra configuring)
Talking of HTML here is the viz home page using internal icons ONLY available in the Alpha

the code is here between ""
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy215WebPage

give it the name viz.html or index.html and link from the browser. Doing this knocks quite a bit of time off browser loading as everything is offline and internal to Puppy Viz

Equally even though inkscape lite (a vast improvement over sodi podi) is available I download Xara

You're welcome! (and woof from Vincent, I'm sure).

Vincent asks if we can have another Beta this weekend . . . ? (notice the tail wagging and cute puppy dog eyes)

Get Vizzy with Puppy Viz

[WhoDo]

Vincent asks if we can have another Beta this weekend . . . ? (notice the tail wagging and cute puppy dog eyes)

Sorry, Vincent. It's not up to me but to the 2.15 core developers to tell me that they have a 2.15 core ready for testing.

(nice try with the tail wagging and cute puppy dog eyes, but I can do that too)

[amish]

[amish there is something for you to set up?]

nah i just want to know the time. whodo has already requested a range in another thread we are both in today... so searching for my posts, yours, or whodo's (also the word "sydney") should bring that up but you will probably find it again without looking. the search on dialup takes longer than typing this, 'scuse.

Vincent asks if we can have another Beta this weekend . . . ? (notice the tail wagging and cute puppy dog eyes)

ah, but giving in too often to cute puppydog eyes leads to a fat, sick puppy you must put his health first sometimes. i understand, tho, *believe me,* i'm as anxious as you are.

have you seen any new license info in puppy 2.14? i'm not going to be able to download it any time in the next week or so

[Waikiki Websurfer]

Aloha All,

The Puppy CE announcement on Distrowatch caught my attention and drew me back to this Puppy board again after a long absence. I was going to make a suggestion, but fortunately there is no need for that and I'm even more pleased to see that someone already has made it;

Namely, the need/desire to accommodate both the old/limited hardware users and users with new and powerful computers with 1 or 2 GB RAM (etc.) by providing more than one community edition.

I would like to wholeheartedly second that. My personal work requirements need me to use mission critical software that are written for Billy-Bob Gates' OS but I also want to have a *NIX (and preferably a Linux) multi boot on all of my machines. Since I have both antiquated laptops requiring a lightweight distro (on 700 mHz and 1.3 GHzlaptop processors and limited RAM), and a modern desktop system, it would be ideal to have different "versions" of the same OS (Puppy) on all three machines, because it would not be reasonable to limit the capabilities of a modern 2 GB RAM desktop multimedia system with an extremely minimalist (in terms of .iso size form fit) 50MB or 80MB (etc.) system in preference to a thoroughly tested full-fledged distro (take your pick, Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora, BSD, etc.) which can actually take advantage of all/most of the hardware to the fullest without having to spend hours installing all the plugins, office and multimedia software, etc.

Therefore, I would like to throw in my two Lincolns and place my vote for making both a minimalist (old hw) and complete/competitive (vs. Ubuntus and others) CE for new and old hw. While someone floated the idea of having 4 different editions (which may be a good idea, but I digress), I would like to see an option of a Puppy Old-HW CE (runs in small amt of RAM) and Puppy New-HW CE (perfect fit for your 2 GB+ Pimped-out rig) where clearly the New-HW CE would not have much of a limitiation on size (or ANY limitation in size if you do NOT want everything [Kernel, Programs] to be preloaded and open and run from RAM). While I personally have a 2 GB desktop, I think it would be reasonable to make a New-HW CE for a 1 GB or 512 MB system, all loaded into RAM for a perfect Linux experience.

Another point; (and this has been thoroughly discussed before) In all flavors of Puppy, in order to gain more popularity (and more importantly, to "make stuff work" in a newbie's machine). it is essential to have at a minimum the current wireless package available in all CEs (as well as the "large" Official Puppy from Barry) because the number 1 thing most newbies want to do is to get on the net. The work done by tempestuous along with the "no-bloat" approach of Puppy made the choice for me a few years ago for my laptop(s).

And finally: It seems to me that it would be a good idea to discuss and then clearly delinate very specifically the primary goals of the CE project. My apologies if this is already somewhere in a post or Wiki that I haven't had the time to look at yet... In that case, please throw a link -- or more appropriately for the Puppy BBS, "Throw me a Bone"...

Cheers and Aloha!

WW

[WhoDo]

And finally: It seems to me that it would be a good idea to discuss and then clearly delinate very specifically the primary goals of the CE project. My apologies if this is already somewhere in a post or Wiki that I haven't had the time to look at yet... In that case, please throw a link -- or more appropriately for the Puppy BBS, "Throw me a Bone"...

Welcome back, WW. Here is your link to the Puppy 2.15CE project wiki pages. Enjoy the surf!

[kirk]

I'm out of town right now and have been looking at this on a blackberry, so if this has been asked and answered, please pardon me . Is this CE edition to be like the ones in the past or a continuation of Barry's releases? If the latter, I'd keep the current set of major (size wize) apps. Seamonkey suite works well and has an editor, along with Abiword and the others give the best size / functionality ratio. I'd just add the missing firmware, Marks 3d wizard (if he's willing), the mozilla start fix for flash 9 (I'd keep flash 7 for size), the other package updates, multi-user and encryption if ready and any other small changes. If you want the option of a big puppy, I'd go with A Muppy like system of a second sfs file except maybe an optional download. The init script would need a change and some system of reading a menu entry file from the optional sfs and adding the entries to the menu would be needed. Any way that's my take.

[Pizzasgood]

Also allegedly. I have tried in vain to get that running under Icewm 1.2.30 without success. The configuration option is there, but has no effect on the right click option.

I'm running Pizzapup 3.0 with IceWM 1.2.30, and my right-click works fine. Are you sure there are no duplicate entries? Maybe the theme prevents it? Themes aren't supposed to override your preferences, but some rudely do from what I understand.

Sorry I haven't tried CE yet, been very busy, and a little sick. Depending on how I feel tonight after I finish my physics homework, I'll either start on a PETget compatible PupBeGone, download and try 2.15CE, or play some Wesnoth (great game, runs in Puppy, makes me happy. )

[mz__jo]

Sorry to come late to this topic, I'm not cutting edge at all. Blame Distrowatch!

Most of the issues that I would raise seem to have been dealt with; except one, which is that for people coming from Windows the Firefox/Thunderbird combination has the great advantage that it is known ground, and the even bigger advantage that when ISPs start messing around with ports and authentication (as mine did) they think to publish the config details for Thunderbird for Windows which you can then use for Thunderbird in Linux. I am not technical but I am looking to use the Unleashed thing to remaster Puppy with Firefox and Thunderbird and dump the other browsers/e-mail clients to keep things from going overweight. Also Opera is in Tutu and I hate it (but that's me).
For the post of Coranth, which seems off topic to me, I have an Alcatel Speedtouch USB which I used with Mandrake 9.0. It needed the copying of a piece of microcode into one of the dossiers, I forget where, but it did work until the rabbit ate the lead. Thompson no longer publish the microcode but I have kept it on cd in case of need. However the easier way if Puppy doesn't support it is to use Kaella which should do. Message as in all hardware, if you can't make it work, change distro, hardware or, in this case, ISP. USB modems are a pain.

Please keep Jwm, its lovely.

If I can get round to replacing its graphic card, I will volunteer for testing on a 250mHz Cyrrix machine with 64mb ram, 14" monitor which only works on Vesa and (obviously) no USB.
Cheers Jo

[WhoDo]

I'm running Pizzapup 3.0 with IceWM 1.2.30, and my right-click works fine. Are you sure there are no duplicate entries? Maybe the theme prevents it? Themes aren't supposed to override your preferences, but some rudely do from what I understand.

Don't worry too much about things until you're feeling better. If it takes a good dose of Wesnoth to achieve that I'm all for it!

I've tried turning compatability options on and off to no avail. I've tried several different themes, including the very old Win95 classic, and no joy. It's the same situation on my laptop running either 2.15CE (2.14 core) or 2.13 in different partitions. It's the same on my desktop running Puppy 2.13, which was an upgrade Frugal install from Puppy 2.12 - so I'm at a loss to explain.

I can only find the one option in Rox 2.5 - under Pinboard>Menus>File menu on right click - and selected or not makes no difference. I didn't use the feature in Icewm 1.2.28 so I don't know if it ever worked on either machine.

Cheers

[Pizzasgood]

Did you use MU's IceWM Ultra then install G2's 1.2.30 on top? In my setup, I compiled either 1.2.28 or .29 myself for Pizzapup, then installed G2's version over it. I ask because my sister has MU's IceWM Ultra, and doesn't seem to be able to right-click either. I haven't gotten around to figuring out why though.

But if you overwrite it with G2's, it should be the same as mine other than themes and configuration.

I'll attach my preferences file. Try using it instead, just to eliminate preferences as a possibility.

[WhoDo]

I'll attach my preferences file. Try using
it instead, just to eliminate preferences as a possibility.

Yep, that did it! One of the obscure preferences in the file must have been overriding the Rox option.

Thanks PG. Get well, mate.

[laptopnewbee]

in response to rarsa

I cannot do this. Firstly, my computer (which is NOT old) is a Notebook, and I cannot put a network card in it... unless you mean a tiny PCMCIA add-on card. But... puppy don't like PCMCIA; it won't boot unless I -disable- PCMCIA via boot options.

Additionally, the Ethernet Port on my Modem is already in use, for a shared internet connection on an HP/Packard Bell Computer that my Mother uses to access the net! I even tried to get O/L with puppy on -that- system -- no go. *sigh*

have you got a connector on the back that looks like an extra wide phone connector? if so you have a network card in your lappy. the next thing is that you may need a router or hub to connect both your lappy, and the HP/Pacard Bell through to the connection on the Alcatel router/modem. then you should be in business.

[Pizzasgood]

Glad it works. Don't forget to make sure my preferences don't conflict with yours/community's. I disabled the window-manager submenu of the menu, and maybe did some other stuff.

I looked over the PETget specs and started on PupBeGone. From what I can see, I only need to do some minor tweaks. I have the framework set up now, so I can probably finish it tomorrow, depending on how much math homework I get.

The version I set up should work out of the box, so long as you include the 0pkgs_db-2.1.5 package. The only catch is that you have to run some script to generate that package, then do unleashed. It should be the script that generates PETget's from the packages. It also has to be re-run if you change the files in a package, so it will update the lists. You'd only have to mess with it when you feel like testing PupBeGone or when building a version to be uploaded.

That step would need to be done anyway in the end, to provide the proper files to be uploaded in the PETget repo.

[GuestToo]

i think what you are looking for is in /root/.icewm/preferences:

# Desktop mouse-button click to show the root menu
# DesktopMenuButton=3 # [0-20]

this line is commented, so Icewm uses the default, which is that the mouse button 3 (right click) will show the menu

i have configured my package the way i like, and MU has configured his package the way he likes ... in this particular case i did not change the default configuration

most of the configuration items i did not change ... i tried to label most of my changes ... either with a #G2 tag ... some of my configuration changes are at the bottom of the preferences file, in a group

[WhoDo]

i think what you are looking for is in /root/.icewm/preferences:

# Desktop mouse-button click to show the root menu
# DesktopMenuButton=3 # [0-20]

this line is commented, so Icewm uses the default, which is that the mouse button 3 (right click) will show the menu

Yes, I found those lines doing a Gtkdiff between my preferences file and Pizza's. Changing that actually didn't help UNTIL I also changed the following:

Code: Select all

#  Manage root window (EXPERIMENTAL - normally enabled!)
GrabRootWindow=1 # 0/1

GrabRootWindow was disabled, so I enabled it and voila!

Cheers, and thanks guys!

[lickthefrog2]

Very teensy, tiny point--and I could be wrong--but I don't think there should be a comma before "versatility" nor "vapidity" in the logo on the wiki page. Come to think of it, there probably shouldn't be a comma after "versatility".

[DC]

Hi All,

Viz 2.15CE - have been reading through the forum regarding what programmes should be in and what should be out.
Would it be simple / easy to list the multiple programmes in a voting form for everybody to select what they would like in? And to record that you have voted (for the usual reasons).

I do have one objection to the windows look alike contest. That is the “Start

[WhoDo]

Would it be simple / easy to list the multiple programmes in a voting form for everybody to select what they would like in? And to record that you have voted (for the usual reasons).

A vote would be a very worthwhile effort for a CE project. Best way to handle that would be to set up a survey at Surveymonkey and provide a link here.

I'm sorry but I'm flat strap and can't spare the time to do that, so if you wanted to make that your contribution I'm sure the community would be very grateful.

Cheers, and thanks for your input.