What's Wrong With Capitalism?

[eric52]

Actually, disciple, I think much of great wealth leaves the country to invest elsewhere or be stored in offshore accounts. Lately, quite a lot of it is buying land in South America. Almost all wealthy families set up trusts, which don't start but do invest. Whatever remains (admittedly the majority) is operating capital or supports government through taxes. They may not be in back yards, but there are cans, and I think we should limit what's in them. If all the marbles stay in play (and at risk) the game is better for everyone. Hoarding is not capitalism.

[disciple]

Funnily enough it seems a lot of the world's cans come here - there was an interview on Radio NZ the other day about how NZ is a sort of "trust haven" - it is easy for foreigners to set up family trusts and things here and apparently quite popular with Russian oligarchs trying to get their money out of their country and Saudi Sheiks who want to be able to leave an inheritance to their daughters. Although I guess the trust might be here but it would probably invest the money offshore...

[eric52]

NZ is a never-ending source of wonder. I looked up "taonga." Apparently. it means "treasure" in almost every sense but monetary. Interestingly, it begins with "tao." I think I like this word.

[rokytnji]

Only the well to do fly in business class. Only the well to do defend capitalism.

I thought you had plenty of poorer, gun loving redneck republicans? Surely they're not all socialists?

They are closet/schizophrenic socalists. They get their govt. subsidies but ignore the source and cry holy hell when they cease. You just cannot fix stupid. Especially when locked eyes and brains are tuned into fox news.

Besides. Richard Cranium types come in all colors, religions, political views, govt and federal positions. You judge and think wrong just like I judge and think wrong on places I do not live or experience on a day to day basis.

Just human nature. I try and fight my failings but am not perfect yet.

[rokytnji]

I thought you had plenty of poorer, gun loving redneck republicans

You are welcome to come down here on the Mexican border and educate us on your preconceptions/bias on how me and my friends live.

http://www.milenio.com/region/Club_Rene ... 0279_8.jpg

I even have friends in AZ in Flash's territory that would like to hear you views on gun toters. Yeah Flash. I have partied with the cave creek chapter and rode with them to 4 corners. My wife met Sonny Barger.

http://www.agingrebel.com/wp-content/up ... -20141.jpg

See. Rednecks are not what you think they are.

[eric52]

Hey roky - like the new avatar - colorful and happy. Thanks for the pix. Got friends like that, but I'm just trying to get an electric motor on a bicycle. I don't like the cold wind burn and bugs. I AM a socialist - that's an economic position - only political aspect to it is I figure that's the best way to avoid a government of last resort. Back in the day, Marx used to call that communism, but I'm thinking there's other governments of last resort. Guess you could say I'm against totalitarianism of any sort, even the Gates kind. I haven't thrown in the towel on capitalism, though; it's a great motivator. I just think that at the end of the day no one should have won so much that almost everybody else is a loser. I like fair play. I think it should be play as much as business, and I think you have to police the fairness, cause some folks cheat. I don't like the police partially owned by rich cheats, and right now almost everything is owned by rich cheats. That's not the America I was born into, and it's not the America I want to leave to my kids.

[rokytnji]

I haven't thrown in the towel on capitalism

I would if the whole world would. Where my mechanical skill set is just as important as a brain surgeons skill set. Where everyone is equal and no guns are required to keep your loved ones safe.

But we are just knuckle dragging apes with illusions of granduer.
Living like chimpanzees when you think about it long enough.
The strongest get the best. The weakest get the tail end.

Capitalism thrives on a ape mind set. You think after all these thousands and maybe millions of years of living on this planet.
We'd learn something.

But apparently, you just can't fix stupid. Too bad my grand-kids may inherit a dying culture and planet. If we all blew away our military budgets. Worked together to make everyone comfy with just a few rules. Give the dissenters a land mass surrounded by water to duke out their own idea of ism. Cut them off from the more enlightened, forever. If their kids want to leave. Fine and dandy. Got rid of religion entirely.

Just the golden rule is all that is needed. Short and sweet and simple. KISS.

I could live with that. But unfortunately. Capitalism is as old as the hills and twice as dusty.

Debating this is like yelling at a fencepost. Nothing will change.
We are screwed. Because Greed rules since the beginning of time.
Even in the animal world. It is hard wired as a survival trait that is in our genes. Sometimes someone with compassion proves that wrong. Sometimes they are killed for showing that kind of compassion.

Capitalism thrives on that.

[eric52]

roky, I hope you're wrong. Chimps and other primates are primarily vegetarian. We're hunters, and I read somewhere the speculation that as monkey-see-monkey-do we adopted the pack social structure of the hyena - an extremely successful carnivore. That's supposedly why pups fit in with us, but kittens never really domesticate. Some of the blame definitely falls on the development of agriculture and the transition of territory to property, and that's only 7,000 years ago. The invention of money was surely a precursor to capitalism. Early monarchs would routinely forgive all debts to clear the slate and restart a stagnant economy. However, the Roman Empire established the endurance of debt even after death. Thus, I think the foundation of capitalism is about 2,000 old. Agriculture got a huge boost with the invention of artificial fertilizer about a century ago, which led to a population increase from 1 to 7 billion and manipulated scarcity as a rule. Finally, Nixon ended the metal standard a few decades ago, allowing a fictitious debt-based currency to run wild. Some of this $hit can be reversed!

[linuxcbon]

I think that linux was not created against capitalism, but to have a free unix system.

All countries in the world are capitalist (except north Korea?) .
Alternatives are feudalism , communism ? what else ?

What are the consequences of capitalism : all our money belongs to the banks. 99% of the people are poor, 1% of the people are rich.

[eric52]

Scandinavian countries having working socialisms, and many countries have socialistic features, including the USA, UK, France, etc. I would prefer to see a split of 10% poor but not destitute, 80% middle class, and 10% modestly well off. Banking should be regulated, not the regulator. There's nothing wrong with money as a means of tracking and exchange, and there's nothing wrong with initiative and ambition. But success needs to be shared much more than it currently is. Right now, there are no real limits on wealth and power. There need to be controls on both.

[linuxcbon]

Scandinavian countries having working socialisms, and many countries have socialistic features, including the USA, UK, France, etc. I would prefer to see a split of 10% poor but not destitute, 80% middle class, and 10% modestly well off. Banking should be regulated, not the regulator. There's nothing wrong with money as a means of tracking and exchange, and there's nothing wrong with initiative and ambition. But success needs to be shared much more than it currently is. Right now, there are no real limits on wealth and power. There need to be controls on both.

A lot of people dislike and criticize the Scandinavian social system, because taxes are very high there and wages are not so high, and many people don't like taxes, especially rich people. Today, many very rich multinational companies and people don't pay taxes. Taxes are the problem, and behind that : selfishness, greed.

Let's take another example Belgium and France, they also have a lot of taxes and social help, but the problem is that taxes are badly spent, mostly on debts and interests to banks...yes you read well : taxes go to the banks.

[rokytnji]

Just some search terms

Link1

Link2

link3

Link4

[rokytnji]

Some other good capitalistic search terms are,

Big Oil mineral rights
Monsanto evil
Koch Brothers water monopoly
G5 summit evil
Global warming and Extinction due to capitalism.

There are a million of them if you stop and really think about it.

What the hell is so good about Capitalism anyways?

[eric52]

roky, thanks for the links; I look forward to checking them out. Frankly, the only truly good thing about capitalism is that it channels greed into a driving force. The bad thing is that greed can become a controlling force. @linuxcbon - My grandparents are buried in Norway, and I went to school there for a year as a kid. We sold the family farm there a decade ago. It is a functional socialism based on Baltic oil and hydroelectric power. They have huge buses driving everywhere with 3-4 passengers. 20 years ago, about 85% of the population felt they made too much money (!) I doubt a poll today would get the same results, and the system has grown complicated and dysfunctional. As to how banking controls, at least in the US - the money in circulation (=prosperity) is equal to the national debt (primarily to the Fed). Federal income tax receipts equals the interest on that debt. So. yes, through government, the US taxpayers fund the banking cartel. This arrangement began in 1913, when Congress abrogated its Constitutionally mandated control over national currency. I think we fought our Revolutionary War, not against King George, but against the Crown of London (private banking cartel) with the monarchy as a middleman. Things were originally set up to preclude banking control, but the bankers eventually won. This is why the problems of capitalism persist. Greed is dangerous, and banking personifies and institutionalizes the danger. Consider the word "mortgage." It means "death gauge." The implication is life in debt. Another word for that is "indentured." We really have to $top this $hit before it kills us.

[rokytnji]

Another person I like on this is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No_GVJOCbyA

[linuxcbon]

I think it's impossible to stop. I read books about 1929, krach, depression and wars, and History seems to repeat itself.

[rokytnji]

More education search terms from the ignorant GED scooter tramp that runs Puppy and other Linux distros.

Linky

But then, what do I know? I am just tattoed harley rider. Who turned on his 1st computer to shop for motorcycle parts on ebay with dial up service. Not a world changer.

Edit: On a lighter note. Since it is friday nite and beer thirty now for me.

[eric52]

Rollins has amazing breath control and far too much to say, but he is fun to listen too. TED Talks are, well, flat out interesting. And somehow I think the very last person that capitalism would impede would be Santa Claus. Speaking of whom, I have never understood that secularism. Old St Nick is a German euphemism for the devil, the whole red suit down the chimney routine reeks of Siberian shamanism, and this is the sales substitute for the figurehead of the largest world religion? If Coca Cola tried to introduce that character today, there'd be nothing but Pepsi on the shelves tomorrow. But this ridiculous replacement has been insinuated into the culture, and we've grown to love the jolly old fellow and gladly reach for our wallets when we see him. WTF?!

[eric52]

Thanks, roky, for that TED Talks link. Just what I needed. Biggest eye-opener was the Chinese fellow. I've been active recently with deepin - a Chinese take on Ubuntu. Despite a language barrier, they've been running an outreach program with their OS and on their Web site. It's an impressive OS and the site is coming along. They just held a conference in Beijing with an excellent questionnaire and published results. These folks are really trying in an organized business manner, and you can literally feel the gathering success. And they take risks; they had a winner, but thought better was possible, so their next version is Debian-based. Can you imagine the impact of a billion gadget-happy Linux users on the world net?

[ttuuxxx]

We're here because we like Puppy and Linux in general. A huge part of it is that we don't like Windows.

Before Puppy I did kind of like Windows, I didn't like that it was so expensive, But mostly, I didn't like that it had so man viruses and that it won over Commodore, I was a proud Commodore 64 user, lol still own one. Never really liked apple, I did like bold apple designs of the cases that pc's came in. Really I think apple would of made more money if they designed furniture, lol. Plus I hated MS for how it was formed, really stealing almost everything that started MS, bill gates never invented anything in the start, he was just the greatest go getter of all time. Its too bad a couple years of go when Commodore USA rebooted and was starting to take off, that the new owner Barry died and basically shut down again, I had a few emails with him at that time about where to take it in the future. But like I said its basically gone, and most of my Ideas now pretty much have happened anyways.
Linux is really big in Russia, China and some of South America, MS no longer has complete world dominance, thanks to Android, Apple, Linux. So that's a good thing.
I really hate windows over security, being closed source, I like being able to customize just about anything, and being able to fix anything, and oh ya, and not have to "DEFRAG" TB hard drives, lol
ttuuxxx