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Posted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 20:34
by s243a
I added some extra formatting here:
mikeslr wrote:Wanderer,
I know that what I am asking for is time consuming and difficult. But it is necessary if your intention is something other than just increasing your number of posts. On some other Forums that will get you 'merit badges' and higher standing, maybe more privileges. On this Forum it does nothing beyond taking up space. It is necessary if, as you've stated, your intention is to provide
"a project
that will build a distro that anyone
with even the simplest level of knowledge
can use understand and develop
the only entry level skill needed is to be able to read English".
You are familiar with tiny core. We are not. For us --anyone-- to implement a corepup, even if you re-brand it, we have to know how to proceed. We need in one place a RECIPE.
Step 1. Do this.
Step 2. Do this....
Step ? Do this.
Reboot your computer into delta or corepup or whatever.
The RECIPE could be a GUI. Or it could be build-script containing #non-executable comments/Instructions/Alternative Choices#. Or just the text contained in a post immediately brought to the attention of a potential user.
Both Puppy and TinyCore are modular. But the names and perhaps purposes of their modules differ. How? Perhaps as an Introduction to that RECIPE --but in any event linked to from your first post-- explain the purpose of tinycore's modules: what they contain, do, and how they are put to use.
and I also added some extra formatting here:
wanderer wrote:yes greengeek i have not seen that happen yet
you might try loading xorg
i dont know if it is loaded in coreplus or not
or of course go to the tinycore forum and ask
wanderer
Most people here might not want to (or have the time to) invest a significant amount of time learning how tinycore works by either going to another forum or reading a book. In order to get more puppy users interested in tiny core variants of puppy that rely heavily on how tiny core works, it would be helpful to try to explain (in a concise manner) some key differences in said tiny core system vs puppy. This doesn't mean that people won't go to the tinycore forum or read a book on tinycore but if there is a more gentle introduction then many more people will invest time in learning about your systems.
Posted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 20:38
by s243a
wanderer wrote:hi tallboy
the only iso you want is delta-1.iso
the others are for corepup and tinycore
but i did not want to delete them because someone may still want them
however you make a good point
i think i will since they are confusing to have there
wanderer
I"m not sure if you deleted your old isos or not but it might be good to have them somewhere in case people want to know how your older systems work.
Posted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 21:13
by wanderer
hi guys i really appreciate your input and support
i am writing a howto
that will include all the information
needed to participate in this project
there may be still some need to go to the tincore forum
if the problem is obscure or complex
but the howto should be generally comprehensive
the howto will evolve over time to include
whatever we find is needed
corepup is not needed
since this is just an expanded version of that project
and i dont want to confuse anyone
this system has the capability
of being the simplest and most flexible build system we can find
and that is why i choose it
like i said it will only consist of
1. the delta.iso
2. the howto
i will post the howto on the first post
as soon as it is a generally comprehensive draft
this will take a little time
and will always remain a work in progess
but i think its well worth the effort
i am working on both the howto and iso now
and will post as soon as it is ready
very soon
thanks again everyone
wanderer
Posted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 21:47
by wiak
wanderer wrote:
this system has the capability
of being the simplest and most flexible build system we can find
and that is why i choose it
like i said it will only consist of
1. the delta.iso
2. the howto
It will be much better/more-flexible if you also include a build script for any iso made, wanderer An iso becomes stale relatively quickly, build-scripts tend to remain useful longterm and are easy to tweak (if scripts kept simple and not become a messy spaghetti junction). An iso only provides a one-man perspective on what should be included (and package managers always allow users to add more later anyway). So hopefully you will work on a script for making the iso rather than just starting up tinycore and manually adding what you like to that and giving away the resultant iso. A scripted iso build system solution makes it more than just using tinycore.
wiak
Posted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 23:19
by wanderer
hi wiak
yes the master script
(part of the howto)
(made up of small simple subscripts)
will build a new iso from parts you choose
wanderer
Posted: Thu 20 Jun 2019, 06:17
by darry19662018
Wanderer put your old ones in a folder something like outdated, old etc.
Posted: Thu 20 Jun 2019, 13:43
by wanderer
hi darry
good idea will put the old corepup stuff in its own folder
wanderer
Posted: Thu 20 Jun 2019, 14:45
by wanderer
hi all
i have posted an updated howto
on the 1st post
wanderer
Posted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 16:12
by keniv
I thought I would try this as I liked the concept. However I have no knowledge of tinycore. I have experience of
using various puppys, dogs and even distros like ubuntu. I have therefor got some of the little bits of knowledge need to get them to run. I tried to boot delta using grub4dos (see below).
Code: Select all
title Delta-1 (sda1/1delta)
root (hd0,0)
kernel /1delta/boot/vmlinuz showapps cde=sda1/1delta/cde/ desktop=flwm_topside
initrd /1delta/boot/core.gz
I thought this might boot me to a desktop but it did not. The booting process stopped at
Code: Select all
input:ImPS/2 Generic Wheel Mouse as/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input4
On pressing enter the boot process continued but not to a desktop. Instead it booted to
I typed "poweroff" after this but got an error. "sudo poweroff" did work. I presume therefor you do not run as root like the puppys.
Can anybody point me in the right direction to boot this to a desktop.
Regards,
Ken.
Posted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 19:18
by wanderer
hi keniv
thanks for trying this out
yes delta does not run as root like puppy
so you have to sudo many commands
further up on this thread is some info on booting from grub
but i only have knowledge of syslinux
post if you have any more questions
wanderer
Posted: Mon 24 Jun 2019, 23:05
by AndresC2
hi keniv
change cde for tce
kernel /1delta/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sda1/1delta/tce/ desktop=flwm_topside
look this example
title Corepup-7 icewm
root (hd0,0)
kernel /Corepup-7/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sdb1/Corepup-7/tce/ desktop=icewm waitusb=5
initrd /Corepup-7/boot/core.gz
hi wanderer
good luck with delta project : ]
Posted: Tue 25 Jun 2019, 00:36
by wanderer
hi andresc2
good to hear from you
thanks for all your help
wanderer
Posted: Wed 26 Jun 2019, 20:29
by keniv
@andresc2
change cde for tce
I have a frugal install. 1delta contains only two directories i.e. boot and cde. Boot contains isolinux, core.gz and vmlinuz. I am booting with grub4dos so don't need isolinux. cde contains one directory i.e optional which contains the *tcz files. Do you mean me to rename cde to tce then make the change in grub. If so I am not sure what difference this would make. However, on the kernel line
Code: Select all
kernel /1delta/boot/vmlinuz showapps cde=sda1/1delta/cde/ desktop=flwm_topside
I don't think the path to desktop=flwm_topside looks correct. Instead of
Code: Select all
showapps cde=sda1/1delta/cde/ desktop=flwm_topside
should it not be
Code: Select all
showapps cde=sda1/1delta/cde/optional desktop=flwm_topside
I will try this and report back.
Regards,
Ken.
Posted: Wed 26 Jun 2019, 21:13
by keniv
Well I was wrong as changing cde to tce allowed me to boot to a desktop. However, I set the date and time then tried to shutdown and make a backup (I assume this is the equivalent of a save file). This failed with an error. I could only shutdown by electing to exit to the command prompt then
Can I take it that I first have to make a cable connection before I can download what I need to get wifi working? I am already beginning to think that if tinycore is the basis of this project then it will definitely not be for
everybody. It will be for tinycore or perhaps linux experts and that would not include me.
Regards,
Ken.
Posted: Wed 26 Jun 2019, 21:21
by fredx181
@keniv
I think the trick is to make the path tce=sda1...., instead of cde=sda1....
(assuming that you extract the ISO content in sda1/1delta, I think you did that)
So probably then this should work for your setup:
Code: Select all
title Deltapup on sda1
root (hd0,0)
kernel /1delta/boot/vmlinuz showapps tce=sda1/1delta/cde/ desktop=flwm_topside
initrd /1delta/boot/core.gz
@wanderer, great work !! only 18MB ! works ok booting to the desktop.
EDIT: @keniv , messages crossed, I see you found already changing cde to tce
EDIT2:
keniv wrote:Can I take it that I first have to make a cable connection before I can download what I need to get wifi working? I am already beginning to think that if tinycore is the basis of this project then it will definitely not be for everybody. It will be for tinycore or perhaps linux experts and that would not include me.
Yes, you got a point, of course a very small distro is nice, but functionality and being user-friendly is important too.
Fred
Posted: Thu 27 Jun 2019, 18:12
by wanderer
hi all
thanks for your interest and support
at this stage delta (tinycore)
has a significant learning curve
and has limited functionality
that is not acceptable for this project
since it strives to be as simple as possible
and completely functional
over time we will reduce the the learning curve
and increase the functionality
tinycore can produce a fully functional distro now
(with a learning curve)
but i wanted to start out with the smallest iso
that still has x and wired internet
if you want wifi internet and more desktops now
you can use coreplus 9 for the time being
it may be better for some
to simply read along as this project progresses
rather than become frustrated
with issues that will eventually be resolved
i apologize for being so slow
but i have other obligations that i must attend to as well
however slowly i will get things done
i am in this for the long term
since this is my hobby
however i do appreciate
any help or input
thanks again everyone
will post some updates soon
wanderer
Posted: Fri 28 Jun 2019, 20:19
by keniv
@ wanderer
wanderer wrote:if you want wifi internet and more desktops now
you can use coreplus 9 for the time being
it may be better for some
to simply read along as this project progresses
rather than become frustrated
with issues that will eventually be resolved
I think this might be aimed at me since I believe I am the only person to mention "wifi". It was not my intention to criticise anybody who is attempting to do something I could not do myself. However, as I have said, what drew me to this project was that it was for
everybody. The first part was the 18MB iso which you uploaded which as It turns out it not for everybody. I appreciate that it will take both time and effort from experts to get this to work properly. In this respect it is no different to the pups etc. I expect you will also need "everybodies" to test it. I do not have any expertise but I thought I could be an everybody. Based on your initial post I thought the 18MB iso could be tested by an "everybody" and in this respect after my attemps to get it to boot as an "everybody" I made the comment that I did not consider that this was for "everybody"
wanderer wrote:however i do appreciate
any help or input
I'm not sure you really want input from "everybodies" yet.
I wish you success with this project.
Regards,
Ken.
Posted: Fri 28 Jun 2019, 20:39
by keniv
@fredx181
Hi Fred,
Thanks for your comments and trying to help me with my boot code problem. I'm still not sure why changing the directory name was necessary but it did work. I did try to set up a cable network. I can get eth0, network mask and servers but I don't know how to set the rest up manually. May may try to fiddle with it for a little longer but I think it's beyond my abilities.
Regards,
Ken.
Posted: Sun 30 Jun 2019, 01:00
by wanderer
hi keniv and everyone
my comments about wifi were not directed to you
this has been a problem for everyone including me
and at this time this project is totally unsatisfactory
concerning it mission
it is not simple and it is not fully functional
but i am sure that over time
i will be able to make it into what it is supposed to be
primarily because of the efficiency and flexibility of its base
you have been very helpful
it seems a big problem for many people is with grub
(that i know nothing about and do not use)
and also wifi
solutions for both will be figured out
there are also other issues that i am aware of
because i have been playing with this system for a while
however this is a work in progress
and a hobby of mine
so i will just keep plodding along
if you read the thread occasionally
and play with things if you have the inclination
you will soon figure it out
since it is really very simple
once you get over some of its quirks
and once again i apologize for my slowness
but i have other obligations i must attend to
i do really appreciate all the input and support
and like it said it is far more helpful than you think
will post again soon
when i have the next step finished
regards
wanderer
Posted: Mon 01 Jul 2019, 15:21
by keniv
wanderer wrote:hi keniv and everyone
my comments about wifi were not directed to you
this has been a problem for everyone including me
Ah! OK I see, I understand this now. I thought it was supposed to work in delta-1 but it seems not. I'm quite pleased now, that with help, I got it to boot to a desktop. I'm also quite impressed that an 18MB distro boots to a desktop.
wanderer wrote:will post again soon
when i have the next step finished
I'll try again when you post your update.
Regards,
Ken.