(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

alienjeff wrote:Wailing away with the Ban Hammer isn't opping on IRC - especially Freenode. Before you start pestering T260G or J_Rey for +o, you should have some idea what +o is. You should also have some idea what the different flag settings are.

The old school silent rule on IRC was to never ask for ChanOp status. Asking for ops was a sure fire way to guarantee you'd never be an op.

If you want to learn more about the Freenode network and how they strongly suggest channels be mananged, read Freenode and IRC; Catalysts; and Channel Guidelines - all under Philosophy.

If you're not into philosophy, forget about being a ChanOp. Non-philosophical channel ops are simply bots, and require no feeding.

Now I am known (infamous) for being bad at English and honestly I totally fail at getting what AJ write here but in my world that text absolutely confirm what my sloppy two earlier posts hinted at.

As I get AJ, it is already decided on by the people who owns the free node thing. Them want to run it their way. It is very sad that the name Puppy is mention at all on their channels. I think Barry should have control over such things and not people who fail to care.

nooby wrote:honestly I totally fail at getting what AJ write here but in my world that text absolutely confirm what my sloppy two earlier posts hinted at.

Hmmm, don't think you made any sense. But believe me, it's not related to your writing.
If you didn't understand what AJ wrote, how would you know that what he wrote confirms your earlier posts?

Does anyone here have an archive of the channel?
Would he/she share his yesterday's archive with us so that we can all see for ourselves what happened, what upera said and what the OP might have said?
Otherwise, this all sounds a bit like witch hunting to me...just a bunch of folks talking about something that they (possibly) just know because someone told them.
Are you all ready to put your hands into the fire for upera?

And having more Puppy staff at the channel won't change that because 5 minutes is all it takes for something like this to happen, enough time for an OP to go and use the bathroom and I'm sure we all have lives outside the Internet.
I keep my saying: storm in a glass of water.

1. I take great offense at people saying the people in IRC don't care. Just because they are a different group of people than the accepted forum VIPs, doesn't make them evil.

2. I suggest people who want answers start doing some homework and do a forum search about the IRC channel and it's history.

3. Most forum "mods" and "regulars", and devs, want nothing to do with the IRC channel. You can see them say that time and time again, and even call for it to be removed. In no way should these people run this channel. (Nice research fodder here too)

4. I find it interesting as well, that IRC "mods" and "regulars" are being accused of wanting to keep things status quo. Something murga regulars and mods are VERY familiar with ehh? People in glass houses should NOT be throwing stones.

5. If I have a complaint, it's that the owners of the channel are not around much, if at all, yet refuse to pass ownership or give anybody the ability to run it properly. And by that, I mean not token limited ops, but full ops as they are, with the ability to create more full ops and take charge as they should IF NEEDED. Whoever is forced to actually act as an op, better be around and active and know what happened first from beginning to end. I've seen too much witchhunting, biased opping, and hasty actions based on heresay since ops weren't active.

That said, IRC ops (not the freenode staff) are "our" mods just as much as any forum mod. Do not forget that.

It is mind boggling that 5 Freenode staff members are interfering in a channel that boasts what, 30-40 people at any given time. Five! And they should know who is who by now, they've been in there long enough.

shariebeth wrote:It is mind boggling that 5 Freenode staff members are interfering in a channel

I don't see why is this so mind boggling and terrifying, if there aren't channel mods around at least there are staffers, after all any channel on network also has to respect freenode's rules not just it's own.

And I didn't even know there are 5 in there, I knew kloeri was one, all of them are apearing in user list as regular users so there's no reason for some irrational fear.

You miss the point.
"We" are so unable to handle 30-40 people, we need 5 Freenode staffers?
Really?

I am in 4 other IRC channels that vary from 15-20 up to hundreds and none of them have 5 Freenode staff members parked there.

Why are we not taking care of our own house?

Well, I guess that's the point of this thread too, like someone said something can happen in 5 minutes span and if there aren't any mods in channel to prevent that then sure that we are unable.

And the afk Freenode staffers are? That's working well.

Everyone else in other channels seems to manage. *shrugs*

As I've stated, the listed owners need to pass the baton on to people who are actually active on a regular basis. There ARE plenty who care and are available. It's not Freenode's job to do our housekeeping. I'm not only puzzled why some people think it is, but why Freenode bothers with 5 staffers no less. It is rather curious, even if they are afk most of the time.

And sure, once in a while there might be a gap where somebody sneaks in and makes trouble. So what. That happens everywhere and an op should come around soon enough to make sure it doesn't happen again, if he doesn't catch it the second it happens. But any channel owner|founder|op worth their salt should have a clue what goes on in their own channel, or at least have quick ready access to a log of it.

And making more full capable ops doesn't mean they run around as an op. But it is nice to know they can actually fix a problem if one does come up. AND they know the background and people involved.

Someone like upera who is helping everyone all the time gets banned for a word he said by some jerk mod who does not know what puppy is ,what a shame.

Well, I'm a little disappointed that no one reads the messages that pop up directing one to the IRC wiki page which explains the rules & such for our chatroom. I'm investigating what happened currently also.

bignono1 wrote:Someone like upera who is helping everyone all the time gets banned for a word he said by some jerk mod who does not know what puppy is ,what a shame.

Well, one being a regular and helpful doesn't justify his behaviour becoming rude all of a suden, I got the logs from one of staffers and I can say that I support decision to ban him, but I wouldn't like it to be a permanent ban if he can promise to behave, he was always OK with me.

dejan555 wrote:And I didn't even know there are 5 in there, I knew kloeri was one, all of them are apearing in user list as regular users so there's no reason for some irrational fear.

1) If you didn't know there are five Freenode staffers regularly parked in #puppylinux, perhaps it's time to hone one's ChanOp skills, eh? And one might consider switching to an IRC client more up to the ChanOp task. If the staffers appear as regular users, seriously consider dumping that Fischer-Price chat client ...

2) There's no "irrational fear" other than your injection of those words. Noting the Freenode staffer level in #puppylinux has nothing to do with fear, yet everything to do with appraisal and curiosity.

When I see channels with hundreds of users and only one or two Freenode staffers, then note the five staffers in #puppylinux, I start to wonder why that is.

And that's coming from someone who has "kline@freenode.net" in his email client's address book.

Chew on that.

i wish someone would moderate all the doggerel about moderation.

73devk6fun
pete