(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Posted: **Sun 20 May 2012, 08:37**

Cool that you found a way to boot it finally.

I wonder about this fact.

installed Linux Mint on another partition of the same external HD.

Linux Mint is known for to have a upgrade that find frugal install of puppy
seen as an odd thing and makes it invisible? It most likely set timing
so that only linux mint is seen and not any other option. I am unsure.
But people have reported on it all over the place. I have no link though

So you have to find ways to avoid this to happen to you next time LM
decide to update the grub2 due to some security upgrade that goes on
in the background without even telling you. So you can restore the puppy
entry later

And how big space do you have on that partition that you have the frugal
puppy on? if you rename boot to the specific version of puppy like this

Code: Select all

menuentry "PUPPY FRUGAL (on /dev/sdb5)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
   insmod part_msdos
   insmod ext2
   set root='(/dev/sdb,msdos5)'
   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 7adfb900-d535-cd01-30ce-b800d535cd01
   linux /wary/vmlinuz root=/dev/sdb5
   initrd /wary/initrd.gz  root=/dev/sdb5
}

Then you could add lupu and slacko puppy frugally on same partition
without having to use a new partition. You only have to rename the subdir
to wary and next subdir to lupu and next to slacko

Edit.

Oops forgot to tell you how important it is to have this code in both
custom_40 and in grub.conf because if you only have it in grub.conf
then it get deleted when it do the Linux Mint update of grub2 next time
automatically due to inner scripts of LM. LM take what is in custom_40 and
then rewrite the grub.conf

Much more practical then having a general name like boot.

Or is grub2 that peculiar that it only accept the name boot ??????
That would be odd indeed. But who knows

Do you dare to test?

Posted: **Sun 20 May 2012, 13:57**

nooby wrote:Cool that you found a way to boot it finally.

I wonder about this fact.
installed Linux Mint on another partition of the same external HD.
Linux Mint is known for to have a upgrade that find frugal install of puppy
seen as an odd thing and makes it invisible? It most likely set timing
so that only linux mint is seen and not any other option. I am unsure.
But people have reported on it all over the place. I have no link though

So you have to find ways to avoid this to happen to you next time LM
decide to update the grub2 due to some security upgrade that goes on
in the background without even telling you. So you can restore the puppy
entry later

When I installed Lucid Puppy on the external HD, before Linux Mint 12, I
did a Full installation, so I don't know what Mint does with frugal ones.
By the way I'm using GRUB2 of Pinguy as main Bootloader.

And how big space do you have on that partition that you have the frugal
puppy on? if you rename boot to the specific version of puppy like this
Code: Select all
menuentry "PUPPY FRUGAL (on /dev/sdb5)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
   insmod part_msdos
   insmod ext2
   set root='(/dev/sdb,msdos5)'
   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 7adfb900-d535-cd01-30ce-b800d535cd01
   linux /wary/vmlinuz root=/dev/sdb5
   initrd /wary/initrd.gz  root=/dev/sdb5
} 
Then you could add lupu and slacko puppy frugally on same partition
without having to use a new partition. You only have to rename the subdir
to wary and next subdir to lupu and next to slacko

Edit.

Oops forgot to tell you how important it is to have this code in both
custom_40 and in grub.conf because if you only have it in grub.conf
then it get deleted when it do the Linux Mint update of grub2 next time
automatically due to inner scripts of LM. LM take what is in custom_40 and
then rewrite the grub.conf

Much more practical then having a general name like boot.

Or is grub2 that peculiar that it only accept the name boot ??????
That would be odd indeed. But who knows Do you dare to test?

There is plenty of space on the HDs, because the system has 2 1.3 Tb HDs,
and two smaller HDs more, with WIN7,
Fedora 16, Sabayon 8, Chakra, Pinguy, 2 FatSlacko Puppy (frugal and Full), and Linux Mint 12.
I'm doing some experiments on a spare machine with 4 internal HDs and
2 external HDs.

/boot or any other name is the same. I renamed mine /FatSlacko and it
works fine.

Posted: **Mon 21 May 2012, 03:46**

frktons wrote:Next step will be the "frugal Puppy". I've still to find a way through my messy hard disk with a dozen partitions..

Two options:
First (dk60902 and my recommendation) is Grub4Dos.
Try on a USB drive if you doubt how it works:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61348
Second is the frugalinstaller.
The frugalinstaller itself does not install any boot loader, but gives an instruction how to configure GRUB2.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=57711

Posted: **Mon 21 May 2012, 11:47**

I prefer Grub4dos as well but frktons has stated twice now that he wants to use Grub2 - the second time with reasons that seem pertinent to me - so our answers should concentrate on that. If one used grub4dos one then has to work out how to boot a Linux set up with Grub2 and their forum might not be so forthcoming as ours!

Shinobar - In the first post of the frugalinstaller thread you quoted it seems to suggest it needs grub4dosconfig and does not mention grub2. I am confused.

Nooby has provided pertinent advice in his comment regarding editing custom_40 and why. Edit grub.cfg if you like but take a backup because you will need it when you have to add all the lines for Puppy again!

Posted: **Mon 21 May 2012, 11:52**

Thanks ICPUG and another good reason to solve this is
that it will be a coming question again and again so why
not spend some time on it now. We all learn from the experience too
and it can be rather fun like a "mystery to solve"

Sadly I am not on the know how level to be of good help.
I just wanted us to get on the right track. We will help many
if we solve this. Ooops forgot to add that I need grub2 too
when I have Linux Mint or other that use grub2 for full install
and when I want to add puppy frugal install on same partition later.

Posted: **Mon 21 May 2012, 12:47**

ICPUG wrote:Shinobar - In the first post of the frugalinstaller thread you quoted it seems to suggest it needs grub4dosconfig and does not mention grub2.

The frugalinstaller does not not install any boot loader by itself. So some boot loader is required. The grub4dosconfig is the preferable one, but the frugalinstaller-1.5 provides instructions for the boot loaders, syslinux, legacy grub, grub4dos, and for grub2.

Wel, stll i recommend grb4dos because the recent grub4dosconfig supports chain to grub2 so that they can co-opperate. (Document)

Posted: **Mon 21 May 2012, 13:24**

shinobar you know these things much better than I do.

So this is not a criticism at all. I love the way you helped me
to get the grub4dos going with chainloading to my Ms Win
so I am very positively bent your way.

But seen from the perspective of the people who already
have Windows and Linux installed with Grub2 already running
then it would be friendly and proper of us who love Puppy to
give the best advice we can master at the moment. So sure
your take on grub4dos is good but we also need to give advice
on how to get puppy loaded from a dual boot with grub2 without
the need to add another bootloader first. They can take grub4dos
later when they long for it.

And the OP did ask us about grub2 so let us address that one first okay?

Posted: **Mon 21 May 2012, 14:14**

nooby wrote:we also need to give advice on how to get puppy loaded from a dual boot with grub2 without the need to add another bootloader first.

I have already made it:

shinobar wrote:The frugalinstaller itself does not install any boot loader, but gives an instruction how to configure GRUB2.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=57711

But i am not sure if you can manage the grub2 manually.

Posted: **Mon 21 May 2012, 14:25**

shinobar wrote:The frugalinstaller does not not install any boot loader by itself. So some boot loader is required. The grub4dosconfig is the preferable one, but the frugalinstaller-1.5 provides instructions for the boot loaders, syslinux, legacy grub, grub4dos, and for grub2.

Code: Select all

# YOU NEED NOT THIS as far you run the 'Grub4Dos config'.
# But some examples of menu entry for a help of manual editing,
# assuming some boot loader with its configuration file is already installed.
# You can cut and paste the entry block to the existing configuration file, dpends on the boot loader.
# You can also add other options like 'pmedia=usbflash', 'pfix=fsck' and etc.

# Example for Grub4Dos(menu.lst)
title Lucid  528 (sda3/lucid)
  uuid d644d8da-1cd0-4976-bbba-91fa6de4c170
  kernel /lucid/vmlinuz psubdir=lucid
  initrd /lucid/initrd.gz

# Example for Grub Legacy(menu.lst or grub.conf)
# Be caution: The numbers in '(hdX, Y)' may need to change
# depends on the hardware alignment.
title Lucid  528 (sda3/lucid)
  root (hd0,2)
  kernel /lucid/vmlinuz psubdir=lucid
  initrd /lucid/initrd.gz

# Example for Grub2
# Add this entry to '/etc/grub.d/40_custom' or some proper file.
# Run 'grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg' or 'sudo update-grub2'(case of Ubuntu)
# under the grub2 based linux.
menuentry "Lucid  528 (sda3/lucid)"{
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root d644d8da-1cd0-4976-bbba-91fa6de4c170
  linux /lucid/vmlinuz psubdir=lucid
  initrd /lucid/initrd.gz
}

# Example for extlinux(extlinux.conf)
default puppy
label puppy
  kernel /lucid/vmlinuz
  append initrd=/lucid/initrd.gz psubdir=lucid

Posted: **Mon 21 May 2012, 15:31**

My bad I apologize. Thanks for taking no offense.

You are right I did not know about that option.
I did not remember that where added. Have been lazy
so my bad. I usually only do manual install so had not
taken a recent look.

Maybe your instructions there then can solve my nightmare
that my sloppy entries gets invisible.

Posted: **Tue 22 May 2012, 11:59**

Thanks Shinobar for expanding on your previous comments. They have really helped.

If that grub2 stub is always the same with regard to that long ID, d644d8da-1cd0-4976-bbba-91fa6de4c170 (what does it mean???), then I am sure it will be possible to incorporate in some instructions for newbies.

Nooby is right that we will have to provide something for grub2 because that will become dominant eventually. So far I have not really found the enthusiasm to really get to grips with grub2 - because:

(a) having to run a grub config update process seems a backward step. I disliked LILO because of this.

(b) I really don't understand why we have to use such long incomprehensible UUID. It must be correct because Microsoft have been doing it for ages (!). One day I will see the value of it but it hasn't come yet!

(c) In the words of Mr. Spock 'it is illogical captain'! Much mild criticism was made of legacy grub for numbering drives and partitions from 0 - very techie. That was going to change in grub2. So what happened? - they number partitions from 1 BUT leave numbering of drives from 0! That seems even more confusing to me and open to making mistakes because you can never remember which one starts from 0 and which from 1! If they had numbered both from 1 it would have made sense but I see no logical reason for the present state of numbering.

Posted: **Tue 22 May 2012, 12:11**

As you surely know, there are many different ways of doing the same thing.
I already said why I prefer to delve a little into GRUB2 to solve the question.
And so I did, by trials and errors, with some help from other posts you kindly
indicated, reading a little of GRUB2 docs, and especially trying lot of times.

The solution I found could not be the most elegant or efficient, but it is a
solution that works, so somebody could use it and improve it if they like.

Of course it is better to have a backup of the lines I manually added, and
that is what I did as well.

It is quite strange that most of the widely used distros use GRUB2 and
not GRUB4DOS, from what you said I'd expected some of them did.

The long UUID is a way of identificating in a unique way a partition on the
disk, and it does not change if you add a new partition on the same disk.
I think GRUB2 can also work without it.

Posted: **Tue 22 May 2012, 12:56**

frktons wrote:The long UUID is a way of identificating in a unique way a partition on the
disk, and it does not change if you add a new partition on the same disk.
I think GRUB2 can also work without it.

Right. You have several options to set root at the partition, but the uuid is most safe i think. The '(hdn)' numbering differs depending on the BIOS setting.
The uuid can be obtained by the next command:

Code: Select all

# blkid /dev/sda3
/dev/sda3: LABEL="PUPPYSYS" UUID="d644d8da-1cd0-4976-bbba-91fa6de4c170" TYPE="ext4"

Posted: **Tue 22 May 2012, 19:54**

Here is a mystery???

I installed Linux Mint 12 LXDE from its own OS in live boot
unto a USB by telling its installer to do a regular install to
that 2GB or 4GB Kingston flash memory pin. thumb something.

Worked good booted fine and worked well. Then I moved it from the
HP/Compaq Pavilion d4000 to an Acer D255 and tried to boot it.

It gave an error message saying it could not find that UUID that
the grub2 had.

So does that mean that the UUID where unique for the combination
of the USB and the Desktop that it got created upon or what is going on?

Sure I could start up that Desktop again and maybe something has happen
that makes it fail but in case any of you have had similar experiences?

That desktop has some 5 or so USB sockets. 4 on back and one on front?
Does the UUID change depending on which port socket one use?

Posted: **Tue 22 May 2012, 20:02**

nooby wrote:Here is a mystery???

I installed Linux Mint 12 LXDE from its own OS in live boot
unto a USB by telling its installer to do a regular install to
that 2GB or 4GB Kingston flash memory pin. thumb something.

Worked good booted fine and worked well. Then I moved it from the
HP/Compaq Pavilion d4000 to an Acer D255 and tried to boot it.

It gave an error message saying it could not find that UUID that
the grub2 had.

So does that mean that the UUID where unique for the combination
of the USB and the Desktop that it got created upon or what is going on?

Sure I could start up that Desktop again and maybe something has happen
that makes it fail but in case any of you have had similar experiences?

That desktop has some 5 or so USB sockets. 4 on back and one on front?
Does the UUID change depending on which port socket one use?

The UUID works for the machine in which you use it, I think.

Generate the correct UUID for the machine you're in and it should work fine.

use the command line:

Code: Select all

# blkid

with the correct parameters and see what are the UUIDs for the machine, then you can modify the grub.cfg.

This could be a limitation if you use the same usb-pen on different PCs.

These are only suppositions, because I never experienced it directly.

Posted: **Tue 22 May 2012, 21:19**

Thanks I should test this right away tomorrow. Need to go to bed now

Much appreciated you have this tip.

But another thing to test is the code you used with search?

that way one don't need to specify any UUID?
So would be cool if that one help me to get it booting on any machine.

Posted: **Wed 23 May 2012, 11:24**

Thank you frktons And Shinobar for the useful information about the UUID and educating me.

I can see the value of a partition code that stays fixed to someone constantly creating partitions - although it looks as if it is no good for portable USB. Why the UUID is so long is another question I personally have but not relevant to this discussion.

I think it is time to start collecting and filing the info from these posts so I have it for future reference!

frktons said:
It is quite strange that most of the widely used distros use GRUB2 and
not GRUB4DOS, from what you said I'd expected some of them did.

I think part of the problem is that grub4dos was an offshoot of the legacy grub line with the specific intention of cooperating with MSDOS boot loaders. The purists in the Linux community seem to resist ANYTHING that smacks of cooperation with Microsoft in any way. I can see their point but not much good in getting Linux to the masses.

Over time grub4DOS has expanded to become a fully fledged boot loader in its own right - solving some of the problems of grub legacy along the way. Its name clearly confuses many people as to what it can do now. MSDOS or NTFS is NOT needed for grub4DOS. It can happily work on Linux partitions.

grub2 is the 'official' project for taking grub legacy to the next level and so it is used by the major distros.

There is in fact a grub24DOS offshoot as well, but so far I have not looked at it or seen it used by any Linux I come into contact with.

Posted: **Wed 23 May 2012, 12:35**

nooby wrote:It gave an error message saying it could not find that UUID that
the grub2 had.

So does that mean that the UUID where unique for the combination
of the USB and the Desktop that it got created upon or what is going on?

No.
UUID is portable, it is given to the partition on the device, does not depend on the PC.
Your problem is something mismatch with the specific PC and the USB device, i guess.

Posted: **Wed 23 May 2012, 14:00**

Thanks shinobar. Yes could be some mismatch indeed.

Here is how LM12 looks when I look at that USB which LM12
made a full install upon.

Big Surprise. there is no grub.conf anywhere or I fail to find it.

Should I look in var or usr or etc or where? It is not in boot which
I had the notion it should be in. Any suggestion?

PS thanks to ICPUG for the true words here:
"The purists in the Linux community seem
to resist ANYTHING that smacks of cooperation
with Microsoft in any way. I can see their point
but not much good in getting Linux to the masses. "
So true. Kudos from Nooby

Posted: **Wed 23 May 2012, 16:51**

grub.cfg is in the /boot/grub directory. I don't know if there is a grub.conf somewhere.
I manually edited the /boot/grub/grub.cfg file.

I'm on Linux Mint 12 right now, and that is what I can see.

And shinobar is right, the UUID is portable, so it should work on other machines as well. I didn't try it because I am relatively new in the Linux World and I had no occasion yet.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Any Tutorial about GRUB2 and PUPPY?

Frugalinstaller and grub4dos

Frugalinstaller and gru4dosconfig ... and grub2

Frugalinstaller and grub4dos

Example: the info the furugal installer provids

UUID

UUID on another PC