Community Edition anyone interested?

[darry1966]

First of all a nice posting I guess number 1 is identify who your appealing to which the debate here has been trying to settle on. There seems to be differing ideas on that.

I see think as far as apps that are fast with not many libs that doesn't necessarily mean GTK1 as some are saying just well made apps that don't require other junk installed with them like the work of Zigbert that has passed the reliability test without going back in time with GTK1. A lesson to other developers who frankly do make bloated programs that are poorly written - in other words minimal doesn;t have to mean crippled example Pburn, Pmusic etc.

I think that we can have bling and what people want without having to go the absolute bloat way of Ubuntu, and by that I mean unecessary dependencies. Not some skinny bones crippled system and something that can run on modern hardware.

I guess I'm saying in a long roundabout way Puppy should try to stand with its own apps where possible having something different about without being a clone of other distros.

[tronkel]

Puppy has existed for quite some time now in the guise of a "pure" Puppy experience e.g. Quirky, Wary and Racy etc. as well as a "clone" experience e.g. Slacko, Lucid and Precise. They all lived perfectly happily together and is was this rich choice that (as well as for other reasons) made this distro so highly regarded.

Good idea IMHO to carry on with this approach into the future.

[jpeps]

Good idea IMHO to carry on with this approach into the future.

+1

I'd add Thunor's valuable development of the UI for local applications (we need more of that). I'd expect future integration with evolving hardware as tools become available.

[Geoffrey]

shouldn't the base be built to minimal hardware requirements of what's currently available in the secondhand market place, not everyone has some old motherboard with power hungry CRT monitor and there have been ample pups developed to keep these in service.

I'm thinking there is an under lying geek factor involved in where this is heading, just trying to prove that it can be done, even if there is no merit in it.

I think that the minimal requirements to donate a PC to Africa should at lest have some bearing.

http://www.computers4africa.org.uk/give/index.php

[Moose On The Loose]

Puppy Community Edition
the CE repository is
http://www.smokey01.com/wanderer/

A small suggestion:

Someone can take my improved psync-2.0.pet and make a much better psync-2.1 and build it in. Currently, it doesn't do quite enough checking but it does solve the following issues:

1) The previous version would not work if the network connection was slow to get started.

2) The previous version would just mysteriously leave the clock wrong if anything didn't work. The new one pops up a window to try to explain the problem.


Also, I think my dialog box looks nicer, doubly so on a low res screen

[jpeps]

I think that the minimal requirements to donate a PC to Africa should at lest have some bearing.

Yeah...they don't want a linux OS either.

"Research has shown that developing countries are enthusiastic users of mobile technology. Daniel Miller, Professor of Anthropology at the University College London, has conducted research into mobile phone use in the developing world to show strong cultural connections between everyday life in these countries and the adoption of new technology."

http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2012/nov/g ... e-zone.cfm

[gcmartin]

Geoffrey offers those of us with old hardware an opportunity to put that hardware in the hands of those less fortunate.

An extension in thought is maybe a distro that is aimed at helping that kind of mission with an OS that is not prone to the traditional MS/Apple problems while having some reasonable lifetime of operation on that donated hardware. This means that you can package up and test your old hardware and ship it with an OS intact.

The efforts to re-constitute old hardware, in my past, is to checkout install reasonable RAM and HDD while using MS to re-license the OS on the systems, prior to distribution to those in need. Thus, as anyone of us knows, over time the same MS challenges arise. This would not necessarily be the case with a PUP OS. And, further, Barry, 01Micko/Playdayz, and TaZoC has deployments where the system can autoupdate. Thus, this kind of approach might just be a good effort for both the needy as well as for PUPPY.

Good post @Geoffrey. It inspires ideas to help us. Thx.

[Monsie]

Puppy has existed for quite some time now in the guise of a "pure" Puppy experience e.g. Quirky, Wary and Racy etc. as well as a "clone" experience e.g. Slacko, Lucid and Precise. They all lived perfectly happily together and is was this rich choice that (as well as for other reasons) made this distro so highly regarded.

Good idea IMHO to carry on with this approach into the future.

I would also second these sentiments. Since we are talking about a Community Edition here, my thoughts have always been that it implies that we would carry on with the blueprint of what is Puppy... not only as a show of support for the work that BarryK has done, but also to maintain the identity of what makes Puppy Linux such a unique distro.

I get it that the hardware is ever changing, that the computing experience is moving to 64 bit etc. etc., but does that mean we have reached a dead end here in continuing on with the traditional puppy? --so-to-speak. I would hope that there is still room for improvement: updates, bug fixes etc. without significantly changing the "genetic code" of Puppy Linux.

Monsie

[anikin]

wanderer,
I'm not doing anything special - monkey business, just recompiling some system parts to newer versions. My goal is to gradually recompile everything, that makes up Puppy - warts and pimples. I like your distro independent and modular approach. If others don't mind, I would like to see CE as everyone's DIY effort. You do woofing, we are crawling behind you and replicate your steps. This is the only way for everyone to have everything. As for woofing - I don't think "woof" is/should be carved in stone. If there's an easier, more manageable tool - let's go for it.

edit:
I don't even think, the end result must be named Puppy. If Porteus and their toolset, for example, can serve as a better base model - why not go that route?
.

[jpeps]

Geoffrey offers those of us with old hardware an opportunity to put that hardware in the hands of those less fortunate.

An extension in thought is maybe a distro that is aimed at helping that kind of mission with an OS that is not prone to the traditional MS/Apple problems while having some reasonable lifetime of operation on that donated hardware. This means that you can package up and test your old hardware and ship it with an OS intact.

Yes..to the recycle bin. I think what Geoffrey was illustrating is that all the computers I currently use are FAR below what would be deemed worthy of acceptance.

[RSH]

donate a PC to Africa

Oh NO!

Not that old thing again!

We had such lately in the DE forum - they are almost dead-before-birth-projects.

So, each time when I met such suggestions, there is a picture that comes immediately in my mind:

- little black boys and girls burning plastic sheathing on open fires to get the copper cables and other metals plus some older boys and girls who are already suffering from respiratory diseases by doing such type of material extraction

Next what comes in my mind is a simple question:

- What Africa?

Which means: Tunisia, Morocco, Libya or maybe Senegal, Ethiopia, Somalia?

What would be the benefits -if countries like Somalia are meant- if we would give old and power wasting computers to those people, who even don't have electricity to boot such machines?

To keep the Somalian Pirates staying at home?

Really, I think we all (not only the puppy community, but also the community of the so-called western world and/or industrial countries) should keep our hands off of Africa - except to give help to make them able to help themselves.

Btw: I did understand the title, Community Edition, as to build a Puppy by (parts of) the community and to be build for (parts of) the community.

That's what Puppy is: a OS for its community - not for the masses. It's strongly recommended to join the community, because you can't really run Puppy without the community. I have seen some so-called Computer- and IT-Experts joining the forum for questions and immediately running away from Puppy.

If Puppy would become a OS for the masses, I would leave immediately, because each time if the masses is discovering something for itself (when there is a hype or such thing) the motto is: Innovation goes Bullshit.

[jpeps]

What would be the benefits -if countries like Somalia are meant- if we would give old and power wasting computers to those people, who even don't have electricity to boot such machines?

One Laptop per Child

"In 2005 and prior to the final design of the XO-1 hardware, OLPC received criticism because of concerns over the environmental and health impacts of hazardous materials found in most computers"


"Dansokho said the project demonstrated misplaced priorities, stating that African women would not have enough time to research new crops to grow. She added that clean water and schools were more important. Mohammed Diop specifically attacked the project as an attempt to exploit the governments of poor nations by making them pay for hundreds of millions of machines and the need of further investments into internet infrastructure. [79] Others have similarly criticized laptop deployments in very low income
countries, regarding them as cost-ineffective when compared to far
simpler measures such as deworming and other expenses on basic child health."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_per_Child

[RSH]

One Laptop per Child

Yes, I know some about this project.

But as I do see this, it is completely different to what is presented here.

These OLPC Laptops are not the usual Laptops anyone of us is or has using it - so, nobody could give such a machine to Computers4Africa.

Of course (maybe) they might need the OLPC Computers but they don't need those old machines, that are meant when discussion comes to old stuff like gtk1 and puppy is supposed to keep "alive".

These machines usually are handled (with a few exceptions) as I have stated in my previous post - with all its unnecessary and damaging effects to the health of those young kids.

[jpeps]

Of course (maybe) they might need the OLPC Computers but they don't need those old machines, that are meant when discussion comes to old stuff like gtk1 and puppy is supposed to keep "alive".

No, it was just one of many misguided efforts. That's the point. As I recall, the big killer was that developing countries wanted better computers with MS. They were basically insulted.

[mavrothal]

Of course (maybe) they might need the OLPC Computers but they don't need those old machines, that are meant when discussion comes to old stuff like gtk1 and puppy is supposed to keep "alive".

No, it was just one of many misguided efforts. That's the point. As I recall, the big killer was that developing countries wanted better computers with MS. They were basically insulted.

Although clearly off topic I feel I should say just 2 things.
It is too naive to believe that political decisions in developing countries are based on hardware/software performance (We can discus it on another thread if interested)
MS produced an XP image for the XO-1 and actually ~3000 machines (out of 400,000 in Uruguay) played with it for some time but did not see a reason to expand it. XO-1.5 was/is even more capable for Windows but no one requested it.

BTW Intel's classmate used in other countries also runs mostly Linux

[anikin]

Geoffrey offers those of us with old hardware an opportunity to put that hardware in the hands of those less fortunate

No, Geoffrey does not offer anyone, what you're implying.
He is speaking about minimal hardware requirements for the CE project.
The acceptance guidlines for donated hardware is an example, not a call to start a donation campaign, as you erroneously assume.
His post is about this project - yours is not.

.

[rg66]

I think Geoffrey was basically saying why build CE for old hardware when there are enough puppies for that.

A poll might be a good idea to see what the majority of people are looking for in CE. A good start would be a poll on which distro to use as a base, wary, racy, wheezy etc....

Majority rules.

[mavrothal]

I'm afraid that this thread is developing to one more "wish/direction" threads in this forum...

Community edition means that more than one developer is participating and user-reported bugs and (solid) feature requests are accommodated to he possible extend. Currently, we are still discussing about it here.
Hardware compatibility is determined to a large extend by the kernel choice and the drivers included in it. This is flexible in woof-build puppies.
Recent (heavier on resources) vs older (lighter) software is determined mostly by the toolchain (gcc, libc and friends) unidirectional. ie is harder to build newer software with older toolchain than older software with a newer toolchain. So is a clear choice, I believe.
Now if we come to the details ie specific apps, WM etc, the developers can easily include or remove them as agreed upon assuming the toolchain allows it.

Assuming we are discussing woof-based puppies all of the above can be easily accommodated.
Woof-CE is already in place and active (100+ commits) awaiting for more contribution, while puppies for testing are already out and hopefully more will come (pemasu?...).
May be a good idea to contribute and formulate things over there, at the start of a puppy-CE.

Of course remastering is also and true and tried approach.
It is just makes it harder to contribute and has considerably less flexibility (kernel, toolchain), but all it take is someone to produce it and people to get behind it and contribute as they can.

So, one way or another lets get into action rather than talk about it

[wanderer]

hi everyone

i think i am agreeing with mavrothal
(if you will allow me mavrothal)

in my opinion (only my opinion)
a community edition should involve everyone
and everyone should have the ability
to go about things in their own way
but cooperatively (synergistically)

my vote (only my vote)
is that we consider using the woof-ce project
as a base
the reasons are
1. the puppy linux gurus are actively developing puppy there
2. we can duplicate and preserve our efforts
by storing them in woof
3. it will immediately give us actively developing
working isos to develop

i will continue to do my thing
learn woof
and make a distro neutral distro
built in stages

and i hope everyone will stay involved
and do their things (synergistically)

thanks everyone
your thoughts ?

wanderer

[anikin]

OK, be it. Let's start doing something ... anything, that floats the boat. Your machine doesn't accept a longer line again, or do you strike 'enter' too often?