Puppy is mentioned here - what b*ll*cks!

[Aitch]

@ Lobster

you were doing fine up to:-

Also if you practice law - you might end up being a lawyer

then you went and shot yourself in the foot

. . . there is no escape . . .

......because I did just that, I escaped, with a little help from a few Politicians,....

who showed me that they, not Judges make the law what it is;

in absentia consent [and the influence of wagepackets to the 'legal profession']

Aitch

[puppyluvr]

Hello,
I have DSL running on a 75mhz 586 with 16mb ram. Slowly...
Still, it beats the Win95 that came OEM.....

[otropogo]

...
It's very strange. I have debian linux testing running perfectly on a relatively ancient compaq PII 366Mhz laptop with 128MB ram. Everything works without incident or fuss, including pcmcia network card. It installed twice as fast as it would take to install windows, and applications run much faster, too. I also have a linux firewall on an even more ancient PII 300Mhz that runs for months and years at a time without incident.

What I find strange is the recurrent phenomenon of posters who appear to believe that quoting a message to which they've decided to "respond" (god knows why!) is an adequate substitute for reading and understanding it....

In your case, "everything" appears to mean running a "pcmcia network card". And you totally fail to grasp that this modest ability (which I too can implement on my even more limited 166Mhz laptop) does not appear anywhere in my list of functions unsupported in Linux.

[otropogo]

Forget Pburn, install Grafburn instead.

Ok, will give it a shot. Thanks for the suggestion. I assume it will run under Puppy 4.0 K2.6.21?

[userlander]

...
It's very strange. I have debian linux testing running perfectly on a relatively ancient compaq PII 366Mhz laptop with 128MB ram. Everything works without incident or fuss, including pcmcia network card. It installed twice as fast as it would take to install windows, and applications run much faster, too. I also have a linux firewall on an even more ancient PII 300Mhz that runs for months and years at a time without incident.

What I find strange is the recurrent phenomenon of posters who appear to believe that quoting a message to which they've decided to "respond" (god knows why!) is an adequate substitute for reading and understanding it....

In your case, "everything" appears to mean running a "pcmcia network card". And you totally fail to grasp that this modest ability (which I too can implement on my even more limited 166Mhz laptop) does not appear anywhere in my list of functions unsupported in Linux.

No, everything means everything. Including network, drives, cpu, serial mice, acpi/apm power management, video, sound, parallel port and usb. I don't have any pcmcia drives or ls-120 drives, so I can't comment on those.

But if windows can run your hardware fine, then why do you have a problem? It gets a little tedious to hear one person out of literally tens if not hundreds of thousands diss linux in its entirety just because it won't run on some quirky old hardware that is probably half useless by now anyway. Iow, this is an extremely isolated case, and harping on it falls under the category of a "just grow up" kind of issue, imho. It runs on windows, so you shouldn't have a problem.

Maybe if you criticized windows vista for not running on your hardware it might be easier to take you seriously. The best you can do is mention windows 98, which is UNSUPPORTED now by microsoft anyway. So install vista or XP on that hardware and then get back to us on how great it went. Then maybe you can be justified in slamming linux. Until then, you're just another unreasonable complainer with an apparent axe to grind.

[otropogo]

No, everything means everything. Including network, drives, cpu, serial mice, acpi/apm power management, video, sound, parallel port and usb. I don't have any pcmcia drives or ls-120 drives, so I can't comment on those.

.

Translation: your "everything" means NOTHING on my list except serial and parallel port support.

Still, that's pretty exciting, especially since Crash and I have been labouring for weeks to get the advertised parallel port support in Wakepup2 to actually work.

So, PLEASE, tell us how you manage to boot Puppy from a parallel port ZIP 100 drive, or even a parallel port Backpack drive.

Even instructions on running a parallel port Zip or Backpack under Puppy, post boot, would be of interest.

As for serial support - I've got an SK6000 PS/2 keyboard with an RS232 touchpad on it that works quite nicely under Windows in tandem with PS/2 and/or USB mice. The only Linux distro this serial touchpad has ever functioned under is Knoppix 5.1.1.

I also have an RS232 pen mouse that I would like to use intermittently in Puppy, but to do so, I have to give up the use of any USB mouse (and reboot to recover it)

I'd welcome your fix for that too.

Oh, and while you're at it, could you tell me how to get Puppy (or any other Linux) to access just the scan functions (I don't want to seem greedy) on ANY one of my three USB- connected multifunction machines?

I've got a Brother MFC-8840D, a Brother MFC 7820N, and an HP Officejet 6110. I've been trying to get this function to run under Linux for a few years now, but can't even get the printer function properly enabled, despite the Linux drivers provided by the manufacturers.

I know you're not just going to say "it's easy, the drivers are at...., and so and so has reported it works lickity-split on his Linux system", 'cause that would make you just another blowhard....

[hillside]

I'm having trouble following what all the brouhaha is about. Some people really like Linux. They talk it up and are enthusiastic. That's wonderful. I'm one of them since Linux works really well for me on old equipment that I would like to keep using.

But, Linux isn't for everyone. It may not do for everyone what they want. Each of us has to decide how to invest our efforts and if beating your head against a stone wall for the rest of your life suits you, then by all means continue to do so. But, if Windows is what will do the job for you, then maybe that's the route to follow.

If you don't like that other folks are enthusiastic; well, I guess that's ok too. But it seems rather a waste of effort on both sides to be arguing about such trivialities when I'm sure we all have better things to do.

[userlander]

I'm having trouble following what all the brouhaha is about. Some people really like Linux. They talk it up and are enthusiastic. That's wonderful. I'm one of them since Linux works really well for me on old equipment that I would like to keep using.

But, Linux isn't for everyone. It may not do for everyone what they want. Each of us has to decide how to invest our efforts and if beating your head against a stone wall for the rest of your life suits you, then by all means continue to do so. But, if Windows is what will do the job for you, then maybe that's the route to follow.

If you don't like that other folks are enthusiastic; well, I guess that's ok too. But it seems rather a waste of effort on both sides to be arguing about such trivialities when I'm sure we all have better things to do.

I agree. there will always be naysayers, complainers, and whiners. I suggest if anyone is dissatisified with linux they return it to where they bought it for a full refund.

btw, otropogo, I guess you missed the part where I said I was running debian on the laptop. parallel port works with parport_pc module IIRC, usb with the usual ohci/ ehci/ uhci modules. YMMV, it's different hardware obviously. if as you say you haven't been able to get it to work after a couple of YEARS, you might want to consider that maybe it's just time to let go of the past and move on into a little more current reality. :-p good luck.

[raffy]

Funny you should say that. I've been trying for more than a decade to run Linux in its various permutations on a number of "perfectly good" but somewhat antiquated PCs, having been enticed by Linux's long standing claim to run well on such legacy systems.

In the last few years, I've concentrated particularly on those Linux distros that are aimed especially at such legacy systems. I've had no success, despite many hundreds of hours invested in this quest over the years.

..when I have aired my difficulties in various public forums, in the hope of finding help, or at least making Linux developers aware of the public relations disaster they have created with their inflated claims, my postings have often been dismissed..

Yet these same hardware platforms have run reliably for years on Windows98SE, and are able, under Windows, to reliably use parallel port storage devices, LS-120 drives, serial pointing devices, pcmcia_scsi devices, and all of my three usb-connected Multifunction machines .

No current Linux distribution I have tried can do ANY of that, let alone all of it, and I have tried more than a score of them.

I can only conclude that you are either a hypocrite or willfully and terminally ignorant.

Am sad that you've had that negative experience in other forums, and more sad that you could be feeling similar treatment here. But no, regulars in this forum try their best to help, so you just might be taken seriously.

I said "might", as there are some unspoken agreements in the use of Linux, and its forum, like:

- The newer the Linux kernel, the less likely you'll find support for older hardware;
- Writers of device drivers in Linux focus on newer devices, but still they do not get 100% support from manufacturers. Viewed in this light, some old devices could have been skipped by device driver writers years ago; MS VISTA no less has been suffering inadequacy in device drivers - this tells us that writing device drivers is a complicated/cooperative exercise;
- A focus on specifics - forums are not expected to resolve general claims, rather, it is expected to solve one specific problem at a time. Your data writing to CD is a good example - there are many solutions that can be offered if you've posted it as a specific problem of your machine;
- An effort to show respect of others (Your last statement in the quote above fails this test).

Now, before you possibly label me as an unbelieving *ist, let me tell you my own story in year 2000. This was the year when I had access to broadband Internet (in another country) and began my tests of Linux. All popular distributions that I've laid my hands on assumed that I was using 1024x768-capable monitors, because that's their default GUI resolution! At that time, I was just being introduced to 800x600 resolution.

That told me something - that getting into Linux is not exactly going back in time, but forward. So I learned not be terribly sad if some of my old devices would not work in Linux. I would just build a portable Win98 in a flash device that I can take with me, the same way I take Linux on the road now. This would allow me to use my old (parallel-port-attached) MMC reader to transfer pictures from my oldish Fujicam, for example.

We use computers and OS for our convenience and fun. And we visit this forum to extend this positive experience.

[shroomy_bee]

ortopogo, could you -

list your core computer hardware

& then the peripherals

& then the linuxes that haven't worked on it (I presume they all installed ok? but it's the obscure peripherals that you cannot get running on them)

or, link to another thread here or elsewhere where you've already typed all that up into a post.

Your best bet with any kind of older electronics, is to find other folks that already run them, and find out what linux they use or whatever other OSs, and you can probably get drivers from them too.

Just to clear up what I had written, in addition to what 'legacy' refers to thesedays, linux as a Windows alternative is referring to avoiding having to pay for XP or Vista - and also a new PC. So for example, if you try to buy a USB pendrive or a portable hdd and so forth now (as in new), it's very unlikely they will have drivers for win98. So, it's easier-cheaper to use a linux install instead of having to upgrade your windows and buy a new PC.
Also it avoids the common problem of finding that your new hardware is still slow when running Vista, and often XP too.

If what you run, hardware wise, is fine on win98 - then why do you need to use a different OS then? It seems like a lot of trouble for nothing extra, and the kind of endeavor that is more hobbyist - ie, you set out to locate a linux OS that supports that hardware, even though you don't actually need to do that. It's for the fun of it.

What I would do, is ensure you have backups of some kind of your win98 installation disks - and some extra PCs of that era, because (where I am anyway) they are hard to find because idiots keep throwing them out.
What you don't want is to run out of working hardware, and also have no OS that already supports it all ok.

Also, as you may already be aware, bear in mind that win98 needs to be altered to recognise a maximum of 512MB of RAM, or it will/may not boot on newer PCs that have more RAM than that,
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/253912/en-us

edit: also of course, backup your driver disks / programs also.

[Aitch]

Hi

I am posting again as a response to otropogo's post yesterday

raffy wrote:
.. Otropogo. Sit Heel Speak has already had a close encounter with him in a discussion of 4.1's features (that effectively changed the focus of the thread).


Not quite true. The "thread" was actually diverted by you into a discussion of Puppy's future. I jumped in to question Sit's wild claims about Chinese language support. That ended up diverting the discussion into a more narrow, technical vein. And Sit got me pretty excited for awhile about the possibility of displaying Chinese characters in Puppy 4.0.

However, after leading me on for a bit, he left me hanging high and dry, claiming that he had special tweaks and fonts that would do the job, but never revealing what they were. And then I suddenly lost the partial display capabilities I'd managed to get from him, after installing Bluefish.

So I'm more than a little cheesed off about that whole thing.

and a pm I sent him

as a result this matter was transferred to the 41 language puppy thread for those interested

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... &start=495

I have also noted this:-

It's a disgrace the amount of perfectly good PCs that are being labelled as scrap, when they work fine running small linuxes, and could very easily do more than that too.

Funny you should say that. I've been trying for more than a decade to run Linux in its various permutations on a number of "perfectly good" but somewhat antiquated PCs, having been enticed by Linux's long standing claim to run well on such legacy systems.

In the last few years, I've concentrated particularly on those Linux distros that are aimed especially at such legacy systems. I've had no success, despite many hundreds of hours invested in this quest over the years.

The irony in your statement, quoted above, is that when I have aired my difficulties in various public forums, in the hope of finding help, or at least making Linux developers aware of the public relations disaster they have created with their inflated claims, my postings have often been dismissed by skilled, and otherwise intelligent, Linux users as being due to my use of PCs that are "a piece of crap (poc)"., and peripherals that are "weird". Most recently an experienced and apparently accomplished Linux user greeted me in another public forum by referring to my ten-year old laptop as an "etch-a-sketch".

Yet these same hardware platforms have run reliably for years on Windows98SE, and are able, under Windows, to reliably use parallel port storage devices, LS-120 drives, serial pointing devices, pcmcia_scsi devices, and all of my three usb-connected Multifunction machines .

No current Linux distribution I have tried can do ANY of that, let alone all of it, and I have tried more than a score of them.

I can only conclude that you are either a hypocrite or willfully and terminally ignorant.

@ otropogo

Ignoring the slates you hand out, I have tried to be helpful to you, and you challenged me

excerpt from pm posted in that thread

if you post this entire PM discussion unabridged, I shall have no cause for complaint.

done

Aitch wrote:
... I find some of your replies somewhat terse, if not negative, for someone seeking assistance


I had assumed that the very PURPOSE of this forum was to provide mutual assistance.

Your statement above suggests that terse and/or negative responses are the prerogative of some sort of elite cadre, while mere users (or should I say "beta" testers?) are expected to kowtow to this elite and feign unwarranted respect and appreciation for advice and instructions, even when these are faulty or incomplete.and a complete waste of their time and effort.

If such toadying is required in this forum, then I shall withdraw from further active participation.

I suggest our exchange on this subject might be equally worthy of posting in the forum.

done

Aitch wrote:
.If you are genuinely interested,


How would you react if I said the same of your message? It is simply an unprovoked and unwarranted insult.

Do you really think I'm spending hours typing on this pathetic input screen in order to bait you or Sit, or Zigbert for some incomprehensible purpose?

You need to mind your manners.

I'm quite happy with my manners the way they are,
thank you very much for your concern/alert on that subject
I neither intended nor IMHO gave insult to you, I was expressing my doubt as to your motive for posting, which elsewhere would earn you the label 'troll' and has been suggested for this type of baiting post
It is generally considered unfriendly or uncooperative
I endeavoured to do both, however if I failed then I have at least made the effort, and not risen to the bait, until now

However,

Aitch wrote:
perhaps a clearer outline of what you are trying to achieve/have tried/failed to do, would help, yes?, perhaps in an a,b,c, format, if that is not too simple, nor taken as unintentional insult to your obvious intelligence?

after some further frustrated comment - see above 41 language puppylink for details

I would never reject any genuine offer of help, and would be most pleased to have my nagging doubts about your sincerity and ability dispelled.

So my challenge to you otropogo, and all those who you've slated is,
would you start a new thread, stating concisely the hardware you claim linux presumably, puppylinux fails to reliably use parallel port storage devices, LS-120 drives, serial pointing devices, pcmcia_scsi devices, and all of my three usb-connected Multifunction machines

to which you quote

No current Linux distribution I have tried can do ANY of that, let alone all of it, and I have tried more than a score of them.

I would be most interested to see this hardware clearly identified, as IMHO your frustration has removed your logic, and I do not believe your claim

Then can this thread be restored to it's original purpose, as, were a lawyer to look, he would want evidence of any claim - this just provides support for his stance against linux, and puppy in particular
I have not had an easy ride with my hardware, but I am not blaming anyone, as I see no point, I am perpetually seeking solutions to problems, so I research

So, otropogo, I've provided mine - now it's your turn
Let me know, by pm, if you wish, what your thread is entitled, please

Aitch
Edit
shroomy_bee seems we had similar thoughts
it's that kiss principle, eh?
Keep it simple........

[puppyluvr]

Hello,

After a particularly vile and insulting PM from otropogo, after I went out of my way to be friendly, he (or she) has made it quite clear that his (sic) purpose here is to warn people away from Linux.
Having extensively reviewed his posts, This is qutie obvious..
The attempts to create dissent are clear. They will fail..
I, for one, will not be "baited" again.

If this is your idea of fun, then you are all the things you called me and more....

Jay

[shroomy_bee]

I thought so too Aitch when I read your post. Similar idea.

I just wanted to add - there was mention of a printer with linux drivers, that did not work. That's the fault of the manufacturer, ie - whoever sells the hardware along with those drivers. Drivers for linux should be listed by their kernel versions.

And sad to say, but some helpdesks don't care that their drivers don't work! I bought a wi-fi usb plugin that had win98 drivers; they didn't work. I didn't think they would when I realised they used the same drivers for all windows versions...so I contacted the tech support anyway, and got the usual standard reply that fails to actually read what I wrote, and lists 'common problems'. And after a couple of times mailing an actual person (I hope) and explaining the drivers don't work - they never bother replying again. They don't even try to address the problem, cause they expect people to just return the product to whatever vendor they bought it from. Unfortunately some business' get run that way - I've seen it myself. Depending on who was in charge that shift ('you are the weakest link, goodbye'), they only want to get numbers on paper shipped or built.
Hence why they don't address actual problems, and why the products continue to be sold.
Oddly however, in that particular case, I had bought another of a similar product, which didn't list w98 on its drivers - but it worked on it.

Anyway, my point being - if the driver info. says it works with whatever linux kernel and it does not, it means they either didn't test it properly or that disk is faulty. It isn't the fault of anyone answering on forums.

[otropogo]

Hello,

After a particularly vile and insulting PM from otropogo, after I went out of my way to be friendly, he (or she) has made it quite clear that his (sic) purpose here is to warn people away from Linux.

Show us the quotes from my PM that support this claim.

Having extensively reviewed his posts, This is qutie obvious..

Who appointed you Herald of the Obvious?

The attempts to create dissent are clear.

Then why do you have to make a big announcement?

I, for one, will not be "baited" again.

promises, promises...

Just don't YOU send me any more unsolicited "private" mails, and I guarantee you won't get any more replies, "vile" or otherwise objectionable.

[otropogo]

Aitch wrote:
.If you are genuinely interested,


How would you react if I said the same of your message? It is simply an unprovoked and unwarranted insult.

Do you really think I'm spending hours typing on this pathetic input screen in order to bait you or Sit, or Zigbert for some incomprehensible purpose?

You need to mind your manners.

I'm quite happy with my manners the way they are,
thank you very much for your concern/alert on that subject
I neither intended nor IMHO gave insult to you, I was expressing my doubt as to your motive for posting, which elsewhere would earn you the label 'troll' and has been suggested for this type of baiting post
It is generally considered unfriendly or uncooperative
I endeavoured to do both, however if I failed then I have at least made the effort, and not risen to the bait, until now

Well, my doubts about your competence are certainly borne out. I suggest you research the meaning of "troll" before you apply this label again.

There has never yet been a "baiting" post from me in this forum. I mean what I say, and I defend my opinions and attempt to point out the flaws in objections offered.

However, when the response is nothing more than insults and empty posturing, I do feel and express some hostility - not because of any real or imagined damage to my persona, but because such posts derail the worthwhile discussion of real issues and drive away thoughtful participants, first from the thread, and eventually, from the forum.

If you're too dense to even realize that you've gratuitously insulted someone, you definitely require admonition. You seem to forget that my admonition to 'mind your manners' was in response to an unsolicited private message you sent me. And that it was YOUR choice to publish it here.

[Aitch]

I suggest you research the meaning of "troll" before you apply this label again.

The word likely gained currency because of its apt second meaning, drawn from the trolls portrayed in Scandinavian folklore and children's tales; they are often ugly, obnoxious creatures bent on
mischief and wickedness.

Apt: troll, I say again

There has never yet been a "baiting" post from me in this forum. I mean what I say, and I defend my opinions and attempt to point out the flaws in objections offered.

failed

However, when the response is nothing more than insults and empty posturing, I do feel and express some hostility - not because of any real or imagined damage to my persona, but because such posts derail the worthwhile discussion of real issues and drive away thoughtful participants, first from the thread......

Had you not been so insulting, I had researched your other problem of Chinese character display and found a solution, with a little help from my friends, who actually express fear of posting because of your bad attitude

Who's empty now? I offered to help, remember?

and a complete waste of their time and effort.

It's my time and effort and I often spend it helping not so grateful people, but even I have limits - I don't owe you anything

It would appear to me that you are digging your own grave on this particular forum, so I suggest you take your own advice

then I shall withdraw from further active participation.

......and eventually, from the forum.

Please, don't let me stop you

And that it was YOUR choice to publish it here.

The evidence is against you

I suggest our exchange on this subject might be equally worthy of posting in the forum

if you post this entire PM discussion unabridged, I shall have no cause for complaint.

but you continued complaining anyway, and did not desist from trolling

not because of any real or imagined damage to my persona, but because such posts derail the worthwhile discussion of real issues and drive away thoughtful participants

wrong - we're still here

smile - you're on candid camera

http://homepage.mac.com/johnnybgood/webcam.htm

Next you'll likely be telling people on another forum somewhere, how horrible the people on puppylinux forums are.......

.....so I advise a trip to the hardware store to get some glass cleaner, for your mirror

You have obviously forgotten just how ugly you are, and I'm not referring to your physical personage

look out mummy's coming....

Aitch

[puppyluvr]

You asked for it.:

You suffer from a basic defect in logical thinking.

If one out of ten, or even one out of thousand, sets of tires in a model line were to crash and burn, would you consider that model safe, just because you happened to have a set that seemed to perform well?

OTOH, if you installed such a set of tires because they were advertised to run particularly well on your old junker, and found that they failed miserably and the supplier was unable to provide any remedy - would you spend days, weeks, or months trying to find a way to make those same tires, or another set of the same kind, work as advertised, or simply dump them and get replacements elsewhere?

And finally, after having such an experience, would you keep your mouth shut and allow your family, friends, and colleagues to risk the same experience, or warn them of it?

Now, what does that sound like to you????

While you are at it, read a question and response.....

puppyluvr wrote:
Can we be friends???

I hardly think so. From the bio you've provided, I can only regard you as a small-minded bigot, who has absolutely no inkling of the importance of freedom of expression in our society. To me, you represent the Inquisition, the burning of "witches', the suppression of dissent and debate, the police state.

Just what kind of person responds to an attempt to be friendly like that....
You.
Originally, we offered to help you, but now I see we are unqualified..
Sigmund Freud would be unqualified.

I honestly tried to extend the "olive branch" to you, and you responded as such...
Like I said, Id feel sorry for you, but Im too busy enjoying Linux...

PS.. Call me a Bigot in person, you @#$%^ ..(if you only knew)
Your true colors are showing.....the game is over....

"Sir, this parrot is deceased"


Olive Branch in question, before you misrepresent it too. Because I have nothing to hide....

From: puppyluvr
To: otropogo
Posted: Yesterday, at 2:05 am
Subject: Differences of opinion
Hello,
Firstly, I am sorry this series of events ever occured. I have read many of your 250+ posts, as well as your profile, and feel we share many viewpoints. Contrary to what that thread my present, I am not a zealot. I am not even anti Windoze. (See my thread, "The truth about Windows") I am, however, anti "Windows mentality". M$ has worked very hard to convince the world they are irreplaceable.
I see M$ as a part of the "Big Brother" mentality, In tune with the NWO agenda. I have VERY strong feelings about freedom and injustice,( I stood and watched the Murrah building burn)
Im sure you are aware of M$`s history in that area.
.....Who am I???
I am a 44 yr old father of 5, a musician, and a steelworker in a factory. And a Linux user. I like to shoot, fish, play guitar, and drink beer. I am a redneck..
I am a member of the NRA, as well as Save the Republic, and a Alex Jones fan.
(But David Icke is nuts.....LOL)
I have an organization that refurbishes old donated Win98 laptops with Linux, and distributes them to needy familys.
I am in the process of trying to start C.R.O.S.S., Citizens for the Removal of Occult and Satanic Symbols. In other words, I wont sign any official document with a pentagram ect... on it. Therefore, I have no Drivers License..LOL.. .
Oh, and BTW, my wife is studying law..

Who are you?
Can we be friends???

I am truely sorry you havnt had a good expierence with Linux. Really. 18 months.
I made the switch just 1 year ago and it has changed my (computing) life. I find it great for older machines, Linux just seems easier to grasp. After 30 yrs of working with computers, now Im playing with them. Enjoying them again..
The opinions I stated are based on personal expierence.
Im sorry you havnt had the same expierence.
Id offer to help, but you obviously have more Linux expierence than me. Still....If anything....
I sent you this note because I want you to understand that a difference of opinion is just that, and only that. I invite you to PM me, EMail me, or call on Gizmo/Psip,

[otropogo]

It would appear to me that you are digging your own grave on this particular forum, so I suggest you take your own advice

...then I shall withdraw from further active participation.

Your propensity to quote out of context shows that you're insincere as well as inept. Here is the entire passage, putting my undertaking in context.

... I find some of your replies somewhat terse, if not negative, for someone seeking assistance

I had assumed that the very PURPOSE of this forum was to provide mutual assistance.

Your statement above suggests that terse and/or negative responses are the prerogative of some sort of elite cadre, while mere users (or should I say "beta" testers?) are expected to kowtow to this elite and feign unwarranted respect and appreciation for advice and instructions, even when these are faulty or incomplete.and a complete waste of their time and effort.

If such toadying is required in this forum, then I shall withdraw from further active participation.

You seem to be saying now that toadying IS required of non-developers who participate in this forum. Happily, that is not my experience. And I can dispense with YOUR ephemeral "offers" of help quite comfortably.

if you post this entire PM discussion unabridged, I shall have no cause for complaint.

but you continued complaining anyway, and did not desist from trolling

NOT being a lawyer, I neglected say "unabridged and UNADORNED".

You did NOT publish our PM exchange as it stood, but added your own bilious commentary to it. Did you expect me to give you carte blanche to tear a strip off me publicly and not respond?

[Aitch]

NOT being a lawyer, I neglected say "unabridged and UNADORNED".

You did NOT publish our PM exchange as it stood, but added your own bilious commentary to it

PostPosted: Yesterday, at 10:38 pm BST

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... &start=495

as requested, complied with, to the letter, and posted on p5 Today, at 2:36 pm BST in this forum after your 5 pages of responses mainly off topic and 'in yer face'
My interjection, which you now make me wish I hadn't made, was a sincere attempt to assist, despite experiencing your off hand manner in the thread which crash was assisting with - HE deserves a medal IMHO

And I can dispense with YOUR ephemeral "offers" of help quite comfortably.

If you do not want my help, no problem, just say so, as it is merely my way of life to offer

not content with just saying so, you baited, goaded and attempted to score points

.....but added your own bilious commentary to it

With apologies for the length of this post, however, when needs must.....

Any help would be appreciated, and I will send a link to otropogo & SHS, who is mentioned also, in fairness

It is my belief that the Puppy community strength is in it's ability and willingness to help resolve problems, despite some unfortunate misunderstandings & frustrations affecting our efforts
Hence, my cards on the table approach

and so finally, having tried to be pleasant, courteous, patient and helpful, I'll sign off this thread and leave you a cheap shot at my back
In the inimitable style of AJ

So... my final solution...

Didn't Hitler say something like that?

I hereby award you the complainers badge of effort - was it worth it?

Aitch

PS It also makes me aware of how the title of a thread can influence the content;
lawyers, what lawyers, b*ll*cks, what b*ll*cks

[Ralph124C41]

http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/smc/m ... ument.html