Page 5 of 5

Posted: Thu 31 Mar 2016, 09:34
by mcewanw
Sailor Enceladus wrote:
BarryK wrote:The thing is, there is so much dependency on the home directory being /root. So many PET packages have /root hard-coded.
The above common situation being a great pity and really unnecessary since an easy matter to have used $HOME instead of a hard-coded /root. We have tested (and sometimes included) several traditional Puppy dotpets in DebianDog - those coded to use $HOME generally worked without modification, others needed the hard-coded /root altered to $HOME. I suppose some Puppy utility writers had no interest in their apps working in other distributions than Puppy, but why limit a program unnecessarily?

William

Posted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 05:54
by bigpup
In Puppy /root is $HOME

Try this in a console:

Code: Select all

echo $HOME
How Puppy works explains it all.

Posted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 06:59
by mcewanw
bigpup wrote:In Puppy /root is $HOME

Try this in a console:

Code: Select all

echo $HOME
How Puppy works explains it all.
Which is the limitation I referred to, which happens to also prevent some otherwise excellent Puppy apps run on other Linux systems.

And apparently, when it comes to user 'fido' there are moves to make $HOME something other than /root, which will, as I said, require mods to some Puppy gtkdialog-based apps:
01micko wrote:I've done some work on this.
...
I have given fido a home too in /home/fido.
...
Lots of stuff works but even more doesn't.

More to come.

Posted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 10:59
by 01micko
I can get fido to work without creating a $HOME and this will be the case in the next slacko point release (bugfix for 6.3.0) but going forward I think that Fido needs a home and that home will be in /home/.

Why?
  • Well the current state of fido is a one way street. If you want to convert back to root then fido is left completely broken. That shouldn't happen.
  • As William says, why spend time making great software when it only runs in Puppy? I can vouch for PMusic. I have tested and run it very successfully in Slackware proper, with the tray icon and all, in several DEs (including KDE).
  • I believe Porteus used (maybe still using?) PBurn as the default burner software.
  • The game is changing. Malware is rife. Unsuspecting users are cheap targets. Just because Fido is not running as 'root' does not really offer any protection when he is using the /root as $HOME.
Whatever your thought on the matter please express your opinion. I am not the be all and end all. If someone believes that they can persuade me otherwise then go for it. It's what open source is about.

Posted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 15:56
by step
01micko wrote:I can get fido to work without creating a $HOME and this will be the case in the next slacko point release (bugfix for 6.3.0) but going forward I think that Fido needs a home and that home will be in /home/.
I agree with you. But why making an exception to /home/fido for the next slacko point release? No $HOME is going to be confusing while it isn't a complete proof of concept for /home/fido.

Posted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 00:13
by bigpup
Well, if you want to make Puppy work like other versions of Linux, I guess you can.

Puppy is different, for reasons that may be getting lost, as people, that do not fully understand the Puppy inner workings, try to add to or delete from how it works.

I understood the way Puppy's file system was setup, had to do with the working of different Pup-modes and how Puppy used memory.

As for Puppy programs working in other Linux operating systems.
That should be up to the programs developer, if he/she wants to provide a version for non-Puppy systems.
How about just offering a program that will work in any Puppy version. :idea:
That is not even an easy thing to do. :shock:

Puppy is already suffering from code creep and starting to loose in how fast programs run.
Not Puppy specific programs, very much, but I have really seen a slowdown, in how fast a web browser, opens, and runs.
Those things are getting, code creep, big time.
But, they are not Puppy specific programs. :shock:

Posted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 00:36
by bigpup
I assume we still want Fido to be this:
fido is another name for a dog, and is a full non-root login account, as you would get in any other Linux distro. With one peculiarity, it's home directory is /root (which may indeed seem very peculiar to you, but there is a reason for it!). As with other distros, you would use 'su' or 'sudo' to perform administrator activities.

fido always requires administrator password to perform administrator-level operations

Posted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 01:49
by 01micko
bigpup wrote:Well, if you want to make Puppy work like other versions of Linux, I guess you can.
That isn't the point. TBH, I could dispense with the /home part altoghether, just have fido live at /fido since he is the only user account supported. Actually, I might even do that.

OTOH, I could also make it a choice. "Do you want to have fido live in /root(default) or his own home? There are advantages either way and draw backs either way. Bla.. bla.."
bigpup wrote:Puppy is different, for reasons that may be getting lost, as people, that do not fully understand the Puppy inner workings, try to add to or delete from how it works.

I understood the way Puppy's file system was setup, had to do with the working of different Pup-modes and how Puppy used memory.
I don't think that is getting lost at all. A user account has never been the goal of Puppy. It's goals are fast/user friendly which we are trying to maintain.
bigpup wrote:As for Puppy programs working in other Linux operating systems.
That should be up to the programs developer, if he/she wants to provide a version for non-Puppy systems.
How about just offering a program that will work in any Puppy version. :idea:
That is not even an easy thing to do. :shock:
The point here is that people develop habits. Some good some not good. A lot of that is a matter of opinion too. Another thing, many programs are out there that simply do not run as root and know where their files are. (TOR for instance).
bigpup wrote:Puppy is already suffering from code creep and starting to loose in how fast programs run.
Not Puppy specific programs, very much, but I have really seen a slowdown, in how fast a web browser, opens, and runs.
Those things are getting, code creep, big time.
But, they are not Puppy specific programs. :shock:
I agree. Things like firefox, since it changed UI to Australis have slowed considerably. I'm always on the lookout for something better. If netsurf javascript support improves to the stage where it can capably configure CUPS then that will be my default browser of choice.

Posted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 06:17
by bigpup
Another thing, many programs are out there that simply do not run as root and know where their files are. (TOR for instance)
That is why you modify the program for Puppy, not modify Puppy for the program.
Tor Browser Package
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91141

Posted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 07:50
by 01micko
bigpup wrote:
Another thing, many programs are out there that simply do not run as root and know where their files are. (TOR for instance)
That is why you modify the program for Puppy, not modify Puppy for the program.
Tor Browser Package
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91141
Have you used Fido? Sounds like you haven't. I have done extensive testing with Fido and hence this topic exists.

Nobody is proposing to change "How Puppy Works". The proposal is to fix fido who is a broken pup. TBH, I could care less because I run as root.

request to put users under home in Puppy

Posted: Sun 03 Apr 2016, 02:24
by Keisha
01micko wrote:[...OTOH, I could also make it a choice. "Do you want to have fido live in /root(default) or his own home? There are advantages either way and draw backs either way. Bla.. bla.." ...
Not sure if this is germane, but, over in the Other Distros thread, I've been singing the praises of a Fedora spin named Korora, and pipe-dreaming of a FedoraPup or FedoraDog, and today mcewanw chimed in to agree it would be a desireable thing. It is a Fedora convention that all users other than root go under /home. So, making it a Puppy convention as well might nudge the oven switch toward on. Just sayin'.

Not Using Fido or Spot

Posted: Mon 15 Aug 2016, 11:07
by bh56
I´ve not had any use for either spot or fido until now.
I´m trying to run a series of scripts collectively called webdl that can be used to download streamed Australian TV like iview.
Its from https://delx.net.au/git/webdl.
Webdl depends on a program called livestreamer.
I´ve downloaded the program livestreamer from the ppm but I can´t get it to run as root.
If I change the user to spot or fido, livestreamer now runs but I get this error:
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/root/.cache/webdl'
I´ve changed the permissions to ¨anyone¨ but the program still fails.
Using Linux Mint 18 with a non-root account the program runs fine.
As a programming noob a non-root account in this instance would be useful.
I´m using Lspup_Xenial.