Desert ranch confrontation

[rokytnji]

Personally. All I know that there is a lot of Chinese land owner names on the land deeds surrounding my ranch in Hudspeth county Texas. There is nothing but open desert out there.


It don't bother me none. Anybody is entitled to buy desert property across Texas. No matter from what country. Even Iran I bet.

[Flash]

The Chinese can't move the land to China. Since they have to leave it in place, what can they use it for that hasn't already been tried? Up to now, about all anyone could think of to use it for was raising cattle, so the land was overgrazed for hundreds of years. It was already private property, so it's not like you won't be able to do something on it that you could before. I just don't see a downside - yet.

[Moose On The Loose]

The Chinese can't move the land to China. Since they have to leave it in place, what can they use it for that hasn't already been tried? Up to now, about all anyone could think of to use it for was raising cattle, so the land was overgrazed for hundreds of years. It was already private property, so it's not like you won't be able to do something on it that you could before. I just don't see a downside - yet.

Does the land have the ogallala aquifer under it? Texas has the "biggest pump" rule that lets any land owner pump out all the water to make their own private lake for water-skiing.

[rokytnji]

The Chinese can't move the land to China. Since they have to leave it in place, what can they use it for that hasn't already been tried? Up to now, about all anyone could think of to use it for was raising cattle, so the land was overgrazed for hundreds of years. It was already private property, so it's not like you won't be able to do something on it that you could before. I just don't see a downside - yet.

Does the land have the ogallala aquifer under it? Texas has the "biggest pump" rule that lets any land owner pump out all the water to make their own private lake for water-skiing.

10 feet to water at my ranch. Salty mostly. Fresh water. You have to go 100's of feet deeper.
Or. Run a reverse osmosis unit.

Thats the facts jack.

No water parks cropping up in West Texas. I think even the Water Park in El Paso Texas is in dire straits presently. According to a lot of the reviews.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_R ... Texas.html

Out of towners don't like the local flavor so much. Locals, like me, are used to it.

[gcmartin]

I dont get the message that is recently raised. Is there any concern about property ownership in the US. Doesn't anyone in the US know that the Number 1 and 2 foreign owners of US property is Great Briton and Germany?

So, why is this post trying to alarm the US forum participants by directing attention to the Chinese? Did the poster also know about the Japanese ownerhships and business interest.

The investment powers ARE NOT countries. They are individuals! And, it further discounts the US investors purchase, ownership, and controls outside of the US.

If we rightfully look at what the Pope has been trying to "teach" us, we might see some overdue wisdom which differs from ...

I am not alarmed at anyone who chooses to be my neighbor, no matter what culture or color they come from. But, I am in agreement that a wealth sift and an educational shift is needed to allow mankind to continue on its current technology run. The technology run at some point MUST advance to a truly "factual" information run which will complete mankind's evolution. Looking at what Technology moves are occurring, there is a possibility that the wealthy just might allow mankind to find harmony. At least some of the powerfuls in the world are attempting this positional shift. ... Now, back to the technical aspects of this forum.

[rokytnji]

Well . The link says "chinese plan to own america"

I was hoping the link was right. So my property values for my ranch would sky rocket.
But since it is bull pucky not worth anyones time from my area in question.

Never mind.

[Burn_IT]

They've got to put their excess population somewhere!! <tick tick>

[greengeek]

I dont get the message that is recently raised. Is there any concern about property ownership in the US.

Initially the thread was about concerned citizens standing up against Federal agencies in an effort to protect their lifestyles. Then it started to look like a competition between Bundy and the desert tortoise. Now its looking like the BLM wants to kick landowners off traditionally US soil so that it can be sold to industrialists. The gender and race of the industrialists doesn't matter as much as the concept of dispossessing families of their homes in order to balance the national debt.

My interest in this is that I believe we all have a responsibility to stand up against tyranny and domination wherever we see it raising its ugly head. If big business trumps individual rights then that is tyranny. Puppy Linux is about individualism. Penguins and chiuhuahuas lead by example. If we don't stand up for precious freedoms then we lose them.

[dancytron]

I dont get the message that is recently raised. Is there any concern about property ownership in the US.

Initially the thread was about concerned citizens standing up against Federal agencies in an effort to protect their lifestyles. Then it started to look like a competition between Bundy and the desert tortoise. Now its looking like the BLM wants to kick landowners off traditionally US soil so that it can be sold to industrialists. The gender and race of the industrialists doesn't matter as much as the concept of dispossessing families of their homes in order to balance the national debt.

My interest in this is that I believe we all have a responsibility to stand up against tyranny and domination wherever we see it raising its ugly head. If big business trumps individual rights then that is tyranny. Puppy Linux is about individualism. Penguins and chiuhuahuas lead by example. If we don't stand up for precious freedoms then we lose them.

Except Bundy isn't the Landowner. It isn't Bundy's land. It is federal land and has been federal land since 1850. Bundy used to be a renter, but isn't renting anymore because he refused to pay.

The whole grazing on federal land thing is a welfare operation for rich ranchers, even at its best. The rent ranchers pay to graze on federal land is way below the market value charged by private land owners. But Bundy wouldn't even pay that.

Bundy is a whiny deadbeat, plain and simple.

The feds should manage federal land for the benefit of the entire nation. I don't know if that is as a turtle preserve or as a solar panel farm, but it sure as hell isn't as a place for a deadbeat like Bundy to graze his cattle for free.

Here is a link on the rich welfare ranchers. http://dailypitchfork.org/?p=631 Bundy is worse, he won't even pay the token fee.

[gcmartin]

Hello @GreenGeek. You are one of the members who know that I am not taking issue with you. But, this might add some clarity in your vision about the US.

If big business trumps individual rights then that is tyranny. Puppy Linux is about individualism.

The US, unlike most countries, have made it clear through the laws that its Congress (the legilative body of their country) enacted: Corporations ARE INDIVIDUALS! This has been reenforced by their Supreme Court.

In fact, their laws go further by creating a "SUPER individual citizen" status enjoyed ONLY by Corporations.

And, as @Dancytron clearly shares ....

England/UK/Germany/Japan/China/India/Mexico/Canada/etc are not the problems. This thread when it was opened was about a presence that erupted in defiance to the minority racial President that was elected where it prime intent was to force the beginning of a Civil War. You may have missed the rhetoric of those who were actively positioning to start it. Doesn't make a lot of sense to want to do such, but, racial feeling still run very high among its citizenry and any attempt to keep those negative feelings directed at minorities on the forefront is still very active.

I only revisited this thread after I was quoted. Still the reopening of this thread is not clear to me.

Are there incursions happening in New Zealand that you want to parallel to suggest that this is happening over the planet?

[Flash]

It wouldn't surprise me if rich Americans and Wall Street hedge funds and the like have bought land wherever in the world it is cheap and the government is stable enough to guarantee their sacred property rights. Someday maybe it will be worth something.

[greengeek]

Are there incursions happening in New Zealand that you want to parallel to suggest that this is happening over the planet?

There is a lot of discussion here about the TPPA "free trade" agreement. In fact it is nothing to do with free trade, it is actually about allowing corporations to ride roughshod over the environment, and over individuals. And I think the TPPA will be as bad for average US citizens as it will be for average New Zealanders.

I take dancytrons point about individual rights being superceeded by the rights of the nation as a whole, but what concerns me is when individual rights get subsumed by corporate rights. That is what I see in the case of Bundys ranch, and in fact I think it is broader than that. I thing the federal government has more or less given up on the people of that whole desert area and its population and decided that it is good for nothing but solar farms and mining.

If it is true that the usage rights have been sold to Chinese investors then maybe the locals are losing their future in order to balance the federal debt. If so then the TPPA isnt helping them...

[dancytron]

It takes years of studies and public comment to build anything on federal land. Nothing is done in secret. The whole Chinese thing is just plain bulls**t.

Bundy stopped paying his grazing fees many years ago. They should have thrown him and his deadbeat cows out the first year he missed his payments.

Even if Bundy had paid his grazing fees, those don't give him the right to graze his cattle forever. If the government decides (after years public studies and public comments) that the land is better used for a turtle preserve (somewhat likely) or rented for a solar farm (not very likely), then Bundy gets his grazing lease cancelled, just like every other renter whose landlord doesn't want to rent to him anymore.

[rokytnji]

How the other part of the western USA looks at the bundy situation.



Because if Bundy was Hispanic. Guess in what direction his supporters guns would be pointed. Plus what the slogans and signs would say?

[gcmartin]

@GreenGeen, what we are sharing is that the "Bundy" situation is NOT about secret deals with Chinese or anyone. In fact, Bundy is a poacher who has rallyed his community much the same way we see all over parts of the world where a secular community is aroused to support any defiant act. In this case, it was rallying for armed civil disobedience in USA. There is an undercurrent in US that wants a civil war to rid its country of anyone who is NOT European.

Are you aware of this mood.

One of the funniest events in my lifetime is when in the last decade a KKK leader allowed DNA testing to assert his Aryan views and hatreds using himself as a symbol. What actually happened was his DNA showed that he was NOT A PURE BLOOD! with much non-European (African) evidence in his DNA strains. And that MOST other Europeans in the Americas were much, much more so than he, a "Grand Wizard".

His response. ... "DNA is not reliable! ... "

USA has a problem that the people are wrestling with; and US need leaders to bring a more pragmatic set of laws to provide the equity it stands for. Today, there current leaders are divided on whether they should take active steps to bring harmonious views to their masses. Thus, they are NOT presenting a model or laws for the behavior which any country should take to symbolize an equity positions that they support for their populace.

BTW, US is NOT the only country who has this problem...but, it does bring a powerful message of what can be done when the right framework is put in place. 50 years ago, when I was in college, we, as students, contributed to corrections in citizenry equity and protested to request the lawmakers to takes steps to make it so. It happened.

I really do support the US's words they use in the world of freedoms for the citizenry of every country on the planet. I believe there is much value in citizenry need for these kinds of personal freedoms many of us enjoyed since the Magna Carta.

But, again, there is need to fix things again to re-assert US positions on equity behavior and deed to all of its citizens, thus, protections, again, are needed to be explicitly put in place. Everything from voting, to stopping the erosion of tax dollars that is siphoned off to privates for education, police use of weapons against unarmed citizens, to why a corporation is regarded as a citizen. These are just a few of the issues that need addressing.

Your alert of TPPA is note-worthy. But, that behavior has nothing to do with Bundy's call for Armed protection of his personal position....NONE! If you are a minority and present the kinds of noteworthy items that get you elected, he would use his position to draw his masses against you too.

[greengeek]

There is an undercurrent in US that wants a civil war to rid its country of anyone who is NOT European.
Are you aware of this mood.

No, I wasnt aware of that being an issue in the U.S. I thought you guys were pretty multicultural in a deeply ingrained way.

... the "Bundy" situation is NOT about secret deals with Chinese or anyone. In fact, Bundy is a poacher who has rallyed his community much the same way we see all over parts of the world where a secular community is aroused to support any defiant act. In this case

All I can say is I disagree. As time goes on I definitely believe the actions taken by the BLM are based on economics and expedient political manoeverings. I feel sure there are corporate/political deals in the background.

I am something of a communist myself and would always put humans ahead of a desert tortoise, and way ahead of business interests.

[gcmartin]

No, I wasnt aware of that being an issue in the U.S. I thought you guys were pretty multicultural in a deeply ingrained way.

This is NOT everyone and I cannot even suggest a majority. But, in many areas of the US, this is an BIG undercurrent.

Its rationale has its roots all the way back to when Slavery was a legal allowance in its history. And it took 3 significant national legislative Acts in 1954 to 1968 that stopped its separate but equal society practices used in supporting the bad behavior at this level in the US. It laws were enhanced to outlaw the practices which marginalized its minority community. Native peoples, Asian peoples, peoples of color including Hispanics, and its women now enjoy the freedoms that those laws were designed in bringing change to the nation's behavior.

Today, in much of the US, it is acceptable to have multicultural friends and family, but, still much of its populations are still looking for ways to regenerate a Race War. Even this year, Minority Christian Churches have been burned, a mass killing in one of its churches by members who support their views of Minorities, not to mention some systemic behavior on the part of its law enforcement community. And, it current political community is "afire" with all sorts of nonsense since their current President was elected in 2008 which doesn't help community views.

Their is much work that needs addressing there. And, as well, other countries which do not have slavery at its roots have problems but not at the same levels.

Again, I do understand your view that the government SHOULD exist for its people. But, I am sorry that I think you are supporting Bundy for a position that he doesn't see important. He is in active defiance with their President...not what you want and hope for. Its his way of expressing his hatred for US's Native peoples and a minority President for a land that he wants to assert is his, since he has squatted.

Reason I know a little about this is because I have motored there on an excursion thru that state in the US. If you have the chance, go see for yourself. You, like I, will come away with a better representational view of what happened, why, and local positioning.

I feel much of the US population is embarrassed at the things they have seen ... just this last year. And, I believe that given the chance, in a fair system, they would make much more sweeping changes to level the playing field across its social and economic environments. But, that's another topic for a thread in another non-technical Forum outside of Puppyland. Even there, should you want discuss equity in US, you will be met with some very deep rooted hatreds. ... and maybe you might even find the real Bundy.

Go look for yourself in those forums (they are easy to find by a simple "bing")

[dancytron]

It is more like 5%, if that. It is just that the internet has amplified their voice and made them seem bigger. They are still the same powerless idiots that have always been around.

After all, Obama got elected president twice and would win again if he was allowed to run for a third time.

Whenever they have a public rally, maybe 15 people show up. Google American Spring. They said millions patriots were going to show up and force Obama out of office. About 10 people showed up.

[8Geee]

Hello @GreenGeek. You are one of the members who know that I am not taking issue with you. But, this might add some clarity in your vision about the US.

If big business trumps individual rights then that is tyranny. Puppy Linux is about individualism.

The US, unlike most countries, have made it clear through the laws that its Congress (the legilative body of their country) enacted: Corporations ARE INDIVIDUALS! This has been reenforced by their Supreme Court.

In fact, their laws go further by creating a "SUPER individual citizen" status enjoyed ONLY by Corporations.

This has been brought to us by the PAC (Political Action Committee law(s) )placed into effect in the early 70's. Without this legislation, PAC's would be illegally influencing Congress as a whole. In effect an 'entity' has the same rights (or more) as an individual, and can thus legally approach Congress to preserve their rights.

[greengeek]

Seems like the whole Bundy family is intent on highlighting excessive Federal control over land. This article here mentions Ammon Bundys stand against the amount of land in the Western US owned by the Federal government. I feel sure I read somewhere that the Federal government is constitutionally forbidden from owning land outside of Washington DC but this article says:

Code: Select all

On one side of the Oregon flare-up is the federal government, which owns surprisingly vast swaths of the western half of the country, ranging from 29.9 percent of Montana to 84.5 percent of Nevada, and just over half, 53.1 percent, of Oregon.

So is it unconstitutional for the Feds to own land or not?