xgl & aiglx with Beryl

[wow]

Just watch the video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3432&q=XGL

More info:

AIGLX - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/aiglx
XGL - http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software_2fXgl
Beryl - http://www.beryl-project.org/ | Wot no Beryl? Is this a window manager? [in this forum]


Screenshots:

[Dougal]

I noticed all the talk about it in DistroWatch and for the life of me can't see how it is supposed to "improve your productivity".

This honestly looks to me like one of the most retarded things ever thought up in the world of computers.

[zigbert]

looks cool, but maybe not a "thing" for Puppy. I guess my hardware would get a heart attack.

[jam]

Although it's coined as "eye candy" and most of it is just that, the technology has some practical personal/professional uses, although some of this can be achieved via the use of window manager's virtual desktops without having to go the 3D Cube route. However, whether Puppy should be a candidate for this technology is debatable because of the amount of resources required. It would make for a fun project to tackle if someone was so inclined to integrate this technology into Puppy. For me it is a way to demonstrate to the Windows crowd that the Linux desktop can best Vista looks/effects any day using 1/4 - 1/2 the hardware resources that Vista requires. One thing I do need to investigate sometime is the ability to save virtual desktop settings, so when I boot into my multi-session Puppy CD all virtual desktops and the apps contained within are up and running after the bootup sequence completes.

[John Doe]

Check XGL out with a touch screen:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8466&q=XGL

Sounds like that dude is haviing a blast

[rarsa]

Bouncing and rubber windows notwithstanding...

This is a young technology, developers haven't fully grasped all they can do with it so they show it off as nice eye candy. Remember when AJAX was thought to be just eye candy for the web now people are starting to find ways to improve the user experience using it.

I think that the time will come when we will see very creative people doing things with this technology that will help being more productive.

Among all that eye candy I can see some usability factors like partial transparency that allows you to supperimpose a window on top of another and be able to see through.

I have a very short attention spam... mmm, what was I talking about? ... mmm.. Oh, yes, my attention spam. Sometimes I need information in one window for something I am doing in a different window.

At work I currently have dual monitors but before that, I would go to one application, write things down and go to the other application. Having the ability to see through would have helped me a lot.

Another example is: Participating in a webcast while doing something else. Of course you can resize your windows.

Another is monitoring something without having to switch windows. Think of a running process where you have a "tail" to the log. Or an availability monitor that will go red if something fails or even, when you are waiting for that important email and are continiously switching to your email app to see if it's arrived.

Another important point is that this technology is not just about the desktop, it is about exposing APIs to be used by developers facilitating, for example, the creation of virtual environments.

Some people have started building awesome applications for aero using the Windows Presentation Foundation. Pushing AIGLX or XGL will help linux developers be on a level playing field or even surpase the WPF capabilities.

Don't be fooled by the eye candy. Think about the posibilities.

[Dougal]

One thing I do need to investigate sometime is the ability to save virtual desktop settings, so when I boot into my multi-session Puppy CD all virtual desktops and the apps contained within are up and running after the bootup sequence completes.

I use XFCE with it's session-manager for that.

If you don't want to use XFCE, you could try using the xfce-session-manager and modifying the session-rc (in /usr/etc) to include whichever WM and such as you want… or just use a different session-manager -- LXDE has one named lxsession (I've actually downloaded it and have been meaning to compile it).

[Pizzasgood]

Among all that eye candy I can see some usability factors like partial transparency that allows you to supperimpose a window on top of another and be able to see through.

I have a program that came with my ATI card, that makes windows I'm dragging in Windows turn translucent. Very useful. When windows are set to drag opaquely, you can't tell what's under them. When they do the border drag, you still can't see under the original. If it turns the whole thing invisible, you can't see it (which may be necissary). This way I can see everything. Also, I think I can apply it to all windows, not just the ones I'm working with.

[jam]

Dougal - Great tips on saving virtual settings - thank you!

[wow]

More effects with Beryl(window manager for xgl aiglx)

• http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8668797260936502626&q=beryl
  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 08&q=beryl

[rarsa]

I noticed all the talk about it in DistroWatch and for the life of me can't see how it is supposed to "improve your productivity".

This honestly looks to me like one of the most retarded things ever thought up in the world of computers.

Well, now I can speak with a little bit more knowledge.

I've just installed fedora (FC6) with AIXGL and compis.

On the functionality side I've found that desktop organization is easier given the effects for application and desktop switching. Transparency also came handy.

On the eye candy side: I is sure to convert skeptics. Vista is still a long way from looking the way Linux does when full 3D is used.

[Dougal]

On the functionality side I've found that desktop organization is easier given the effects for application and desktop switching. Transparency also came handy.

What do you mean by "effects for application and desktop switching"?
I think transparency is a good thing, but it's not so exclusive to those two (and what they brag about…).
My main gripe with those things is that warping your display is just pointless -- when you read a book you try and keep the page flat!

[rarsa]

What do you mean by "effects for application and desktop switching"?

I mean the following:
- When I move the mouse pointer to the upper right it organizes the windows in active miniviews so I can select the one I want.

When you work with 10-15 windows open it is definetivelly faster than tabbing through them all or guessing on the task bar to see the one you want.

When I press Ctrl-Alt-Down I get a miniview of all my desktops so I can select the one that I want.

I agree these are two minor features and very dependant on preference but when you use them going back to the old way seems archaic.

And on the side of eye candy... there is no arguing, whether useful or not, people like it. Do people need their souped up cars to be metalic green with stylish decals? The car would be as fast with an opaque rust free paint but if they have a powerfull engine they want a look that matches.

[Dougal]

I agree these are two minor features and very dependant on preference but when you use them going back to the old way seems archaic.

I think it is the little things that really make the difference.

I find a default Linux desktop to be by far a more "productive work environment" than Windows because of two little things: virtual desktops and window-shading.
If you use only two or three virtual desktops you can always get from one to each of the others by scrolling either up or down once -- so you always know "where you are".
And since I started using window-shading intensively I don't use different desktops as much -- since you can fit more windows into the same desktops comfortably. I'll work with 10 windows and all of them are shaded except or the ones I'm "actively" using…

"iconifying" is another such little thing (I was really surprised when Barry referred to it a "eye-candy gone mad" -- I never thought of it as such, but as a taskbar alternative): I find it much easier to find the window I want by seeing a tiny snapshot of it than by reading the text on the taskbar…

my main point is that if you take the things you like, they can be implemented into WMs, there's no need for all the fancy (resource intensive) bulk that comes along with them. Or am I wrong?

For example: E16 had the "pagers" that give you a mini-view of your desktops. Maybe they could be modified to appear and disappear with a key-combination?

As for the people who like all the fancy parts on their cars, I am not one of them, I do not socialize with their kind and, considering I am very fond of the film Fat Pizza, do not find them worthy of anything but ridicule…

[spb37]

Rarsa, Is that the standard FC6 with 3d enabled or a
special version (any download links).

I remember when the BW MAC users were rediculing the use of color in computers.

[Sit Heel Speak]

On the eye candy side: It is sure to convert skeptics. Vista is still a long way from looking the way Linux does when full 3D is used.

Heh...for now. About a year ago at a Linux convention I saw a Novell rep up on a stage demonstrating compiz on Suse before an audience of about 200. Small wonder that Microsoft then announced a partnership deal with Novell.

The build scripts for Beryl (next-generation compiz) are available now for Puppy's T2 development environment, so Puppy will undoubtedly get this eye candy eventually.

[rarsa]

The build scripts for Beryl (next-generation compiz) are available now forr Puppy's T2 development environment, so Puppy will undoubtedly get this eye candy eventually.

I also tried Beryl but I found it quite unsable.
Nice effects, but unstable:
- Sometimes it would fail to draw the background
- Sometimes it would not draw the window decorations
- Sometimes sime windows were all black, still functional if you "knew" where to click but black.

I removed it before finding anything else. compis is good enough for me for now but I'll look forward for Beryl.

[rarsa]

I also tried Beryl but I found it quite unsable.
Nice effects, but unstable.

I've made a reassesment.

The problem wasn't with beryl but with the nvidia driver.

Now I got Beryl working flawlessly in my laptop with nvidia and on a desktop with an intel extreme graphics.

I was surprised about it working with the intel chipset integrated with my motherboard (82845G) as most people would not consider it good enough for 3D graphics (Including Microsoft).

Now I can report first hand: True there is a lot of anoying and distracting eye candy but along with that I found some very usable features like zooming and as I said before, desktop organization and transparency.

If I found anything else worth talking I'll add to this thread.

[wow]

Obvious tip: disable effects to avoid to be distracted, Open Beryl-Manager and uncheck some plugins(e.g.: water, zoom, 3D world, snow, blur)

And we'll have Beryl eventually in Puppy. Some of the updates required: glibc-2.4, X11R7.1(aiglx).

[Pizzasgood]

glibc-2.4

I didn't really know what I was doing, but twice now I have downloaded a pre-compiled glibc-2.4 package, and installed it into my save-file while running in ram. When I rebooted back into the save-file, everything seemed to work, including the apps that were yelling at me about the version.

Key phrase: install from ram! Otherwise you'll lock up half-way through and render the safe-file un-bootable.

I made a post inquiring if that was safe or even logical, but got no responses. I never noticed any problems though. But I still don't know if what I did was "correct" or complete.