Making a good first impression - New Desktop Proposal

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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doopdoop
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Making a good first impression - New Desktop Proposal

#1 Post by doopdoop »

Puppy is small, runs on old hardware and without much intrusion. This makes it an excellent choice for newbies to linux or computing in general.
My ultimate goal would be to make it "grandma-proof". Experienced users can and will customize their installation - my grandma just wants to get things done without the fear of damaging something, and I do want to talk with her about the nice things in life instead of spending hours explaining the things again and again.
Or my father: he has had trouble learning all the names of the programs, that do the things for him he wants to do. "Now where is Outlook here", he asks ?
Or my neighbour. She just wants to surf the net with her old P200 and write a few texts - thats it. She hasno time nor interest for becoming a bash guru (how sad that might be ;-) ).
As a first step I made a proposal how the desk may be changed to start things off easier for real newbies and to impress even more (mostly with the things already in puppy)
In a second step I will try to reconfigure the menu structure to be more clearer and effective for every user - I something still wonder where i found things and have to search again.
In a third step I will have a look at the wizards and give them a nicer and more consistent look (maybe replacing ugly xmessage with gtkdialog).
So here is a first draft of the desktop, using the Crystal icons shamelessly stolen from KDE and the new Puppy wallpaper, icewm and XP theme.
It is design to look reasonabaly good both in 800x600 and 1024x768.
Any help and suggestions is welcome.
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Lobster
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#2 Post by Lobster »

Here is a tip that I always implement

right click on an icon
select Rox-filer
Options / pinboard
click no background
apply and save

now that very unprofessional grey bar is gone

by using outlined text you can make the text visible on any background

Good luck with the rest of your ideas which all seem sound.
8)
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D
doopdoop
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#3 Post by doopdoop »

thank you !
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Flash
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#4 Post by Flash »

I like it. I prefer a simple white background.
Riverwide
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Desktop

#5 Post by Riverwide »

Doopdoop has hit the nail on the head when he said that first impressions are important. Most if not all first time computer operators are overwhelmed with the choices placed before them. Keep everything plain and simple with nice large friendly icons. Anything that looks good and 'feels' right is usually easier to follow. The other thing to consider is visual access. I like Feather simply because of the big bright desktop icons; whereas DSL's are too small even with a 800x600 screen resolution. This also applies to menu's and fonts. Not everyone has good eyesight, an hour squinting at small fonts can be a burden. Icewm's themed dot-pup packages are ideal in this respect, giving a good choice in menu size. If there is one other thing to add: how about a choice in cursor's? Perhaps something slightly larger with a choice of colour to stand out against whatever desktop is being used?
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BarryK
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#6 Post by BarryK »

doopdoop,
I like your artist sense!

It looks like Puppy is going to have a makeover for v1.0.5!
doopdoop
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#7 Post by doopdoop »

A quick update: I am working on the menu structure and the the corresponding scripts to maintain the windowmaker config files, but I am quite busy right now.
Meanwhile, here is another quick drawing from my first use of Inkscape.
I invite anyone to contribute PuppyArts in order to improve the fun experience and to have a nice working environment.
It should be simple, clean and "just work" to keep up with Puppy Principles.
Attachments
meine.png
(17.75 KiB) Downloaded 1738 times
Sirexel
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#8 Post by Sirexel »

I absolute agree with your idea.

I'm here to help you. But how I could?
I don't know anything on Linux.

Apart from my ideas have nothing to help you but that will no boost your work.

1. Notepad is no usefull when you have a better word editor. Remove it.
2. 'Console' and its uses are not a concept target-grandma can understand. Remove it.
3. You need a folder (with sub-folders if you want) to put your creations and downloads. You don't need any other folders. So remove File Manager and put just My Folder, or may be better My Box or My Drawer or My Chest... Inside My Documents and My Pictures.
4. Just 'Internet', why for 'Browser'?
5. Several desktops is the best way to get lost. Remove them.
6. Desktop itself. Let people save its files on the desktop (and teach Puppy to save them).
7. You need a Trashcan. It's a very simple concept, drag and drop.


See you
Sirexel :)
Guest

#9 Post by Guest »

1. Notepad is no usefull when you have a better word editor. Remove it.
Choices sometimes you want a quick and dirty editor, sometimes you want a few more features.
2. 'Console' and its uses are not a concept target-grandma can understand. Remove it.
I'm not even going to start on why it must stay
3. You need a folder (with sub-folders if you want) to put your creations and downloads. You don't need any other folders. So remove File Manager and put just My Folder, or may be better My Box or My Drawer or My Chest... Inside My Documents and My Pictures.
Not everyone expects or wants Puppy to be another windows clone
4. Just 'Internet', why for 'Browser'?
I suggest "Mozilla Web Browser", "Firefox Web Browser".....How can you hope to diagnose a problem when you don't even know the name of your program you are running.
5. Several desktops is the best way to get lost. Remove them.
Bet you said that about tabbed browsing as well......I reckon that one desktop with multiple windows is an easier way to get lost that a few different desktops.
6. Desktop itself. Let people save its files on the desktop (and teach Puppy to save them).
Gee if you REALLY want to clutter your desktop go ahead
7. You need a Trashcan. It's a very simple concept, drag and drop.
Whats wrong with right click delete ?


Repeat after me...
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
This is not windows
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Bancobusto
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#10 Post by Bancobusto »

Very well put bladehunter....
raffy
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Breathing space, volunteers' folders

#11 Post by raffy »

:D Ha ha ha ha! I was doing a long post appealing to everyone to give doopdoop and sirexel breathing room, then Win98 froze on me - why, thanks to Win98, you won't be able to see that ranting! (am using a friend's PC)

Anyway, i quoted there "customers are always right", and praised doopdoop and sirexel for being more than customers - they are now volunteers. I also remember explaining that the Wiki may not be the speediest place to host a help file with lots of images (it has two levels of formatting overhead: script processing and wiki-html conversion).

So to contribute to the idea of providing an uptodate online help, am providing volunteers with a folder each at my domain "ph-islands.net". Please pm me with your email address and color preference for the simple CMS that i will put in the folder, or tell me if you're more comfortable with FTP access instead. Oh, and tell me the name you like for your folder, like "desktop", "word", "spreadsheet", etc. Note that mine is "pupinstall" - i can't change it now as it is already published, but it specializes in hard disk install. In effect, am calling on volunteers - name your specialty and keep your tutorial up-to-date.

Until "puppylinux.com" or "puppylinux.org" takes in these volunteer efforts, am providing my domain for now (sorry, khlrevolutionist, i can't host big files for download). In case Barry holds these domains, FYI it costs less than $20 per year to host a 50-100 MB drive space with 10 GB bandwidth per month (ideal for a help site). Try livin4.com (this is a US host with very good bandwidth offering and excellent uptime, _not mine_).

We're dipping into customer space here, folks, so volunteers will have one hand for customers and another hand for idea development in this forum - a tougher time, i suppose, but Puppy is in customer space now, so this is really needed :wink:
Last edited by raffy on Tue 09 Aug 2005, 05:54, edited 1 time in total.
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].
Guest

#12 Post by Guest »

Sirexel, Puppy is still growing. Some of your ideas and suggestions may well work their way into Puppy, but Barry has much on his plate, so I would say "be patient.".

Incidentally, there is a trash can; a DotPup.

I'm not the first to say this, but I'd like basic Puppy to come with a set of dependable application programs and the ability to add more as desired. Already Puppy is pretty close to that, what with DotPups and Pupgets. There is only some question about how to remove unwanted programs, but that is pretty minimal considering how small basic Puppy is. Barry's next version of Puppy will be able to compile all kinds of programs. You will then have the option to make your Puppy as fat as you wish.
Sirexel
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Location: Spain

#13 Post by Sirexel »

Choices sometimes you want a quick and dirty editor, sometimes you want a few more features.
I understand but target-grandma don't need to edit anything.
Not everyone expects or wants Puppy to be another windows clone
Me too.

I double click on C: and I can see dozens of files is never supposed a user should enter in.

Windows (by far) is too much complex for grandma needs.
I suggest "Mozilla Web Browser", "Firefox Web Browser".....How can you hope to diagnose a problem when you don't even know the name of your program you are running.
Grandma doesn't diagnose anything.
Puppy developers know there is just one application for every use and the know very well their name.
Bet you said that about tabbed browsing as well...
Yes. Thanxs.
Gee if you REALLY want to clutter your desktop go ahead
You are right. If downloads and saves are (automatically) directed to My Chest folder then Grandma always will find her files on there. That is easy and she will learn it very fast.
7. You need a Trashcan. It's a very simple concept, drag and drop.
Whats wrong with right click delete ?


Repeat after me...
This is not windows
[/quote]

I don't need windows. I don't want windows. Windows is too much complex for Grandma.

Trashcan is NOT windows:
http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/amigawb.htm

There must be a trashcan (a link, of course, but Grandma have not to know what a link is) in every folder My Chest has. Draging and Droping from one window to other requires some windows fitting and Grandma is not very able to do that.

Grandma don't knows right click. Neither the wheel. A mouse and a (big) buton is enough for her.

Thanks for your time
Sirexel :)
Guest

#14 Post by Guest »

Well if our theoretical grandma doesn't wanna learn then maybe grandma shoudln't be using....

And don't give me any (insert word that means poo here) about it being too hard....It's an irrational fear of technology.

All your proposing to do is basically change names..


Actually I think us young'uns don't give our elders enough credit in their ability to grasp new technology.
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Bancobusto
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#15 Post by Bancobusto »

I'd like to know what's for sale anyhow? Becuase target this and target that only make's sense when your

1, trying to sell somone something, or
1, trying to shoot someone.

Seeing as though it would be quite unfriendly to shoot grandma, and we're not trying to sell her anything, if she don't like it, there's lot's to choose from.
(you could always set up Puppy to act exactly like you're suggesting, and remaster it. That way, you could easily install it and it would look and feel the way that you believe it should)
:D
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theelf
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#16 Post by theelf »

Grey matter don't leak out your ears just because you are a grandma or in my case grandpa. I am two months short of 66 and have two grandchildren and my lady friend is 62 and has six grandchildren and one great grandchild. We both have been using different "nix' OSs for several years. While some grandmas may need a little help most are not idiots.
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Flash
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#17 Post by Flash »

Well said. It's about time someone caught it for being so cavalier about grannies. :lol:
Guest

#18 Post by Guest »

I agree...it seems silly to me to setup Puppy by default to target a small audience......Those that set granny up with Puppy do the Grandma config....or maybe a GrandmaConfig dotpup ?
doopdoop
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#19 Post by doopdoop »

Uh .. the power of images ...
the "grandma-proof" was an analogy to describe what my design goals should be, NOT a primary marketing goal nor a "Help the aged" project. I simply wanted to illustrate my design goal - in simple terms: make doing common things in puppy as simple and accesible as possible.

To be more precise:
Developers tend to think from a point where things are "interesting", "fun to do", technically appealing or useful to THEM (this all has a right on its own). Especially in Open Source Projects we see a lot of very good development and administration tools, whereas usability for a broader audience is often left behind. Work on it is tedious and often not very rewarding. Linux on the Desktop is a quite young phenonemon and still today there are a lot of problems to be solved.
We have some big advantage:
- Puppy is small. The number of core applications and window managers is overseeable (yes, I know pupgets and dotpups :roll:)
- Puppy is focused on single user desktop applications.
- Most of the tools to make an appealing interface is already available.

We should help to make the core distribution as easy accesible as possible. This is, what I intented. I apologize if anyone felt misled by my description.
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rarsa
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#20 Post by rarsa »

theelf wrote:Grey matter don't leak out your ears just because you are a grandma or in my case grandpa.
Well said, no more age and sex profiling!

But... Don't take it personal. I don't think he means grandma = dumb. I think he meant that most grandmas didn't grow up with computers as some of us did.

In the 20's it was the radio, Grandmas asked the children to synthonize their favorite station. In the 80's the remote control, etc. What's it's going to be for me? I'm just 30 something and I hate cell phones. I have to think twice (or ask) before dialing in my kids cell phone. So, for cellphones I will be your theorethical Grandma.

That does not mean I'm dumb (there may be other clearer indications). It still takes me a couple of days to feel quite confident in a new programming language. I started answering Linux questions two days after I became a user, I can become profficient in a Video Game in an afternoon but I'm technically challenged with the cellphones.

So Let's stop using 'granny' as an example and lets profile the 'technically challenged' people. (I will abreviate as TC) and I will alternate the sex.
==============

Now, refocusing. I have already said that all of the sirexel suggestions are valid suggestions and are worth considering. That's what he prefers.

I just want to put them in context to see if the arguments are also valid:

A) If TC is looking for a trashcan, he is already technically savy. She has used another OS.

If she's never used a computer, a trashcan or a right click will be as easy/difficult to learn. (Actually new users find dragging to be quite a difficult task)

B) As for the single folder location. Linux already has that concept. It's called the Home folder (one for each user). In puppys case it just happens to be the /root folder because it runs as root. But everything you download or create goes there by default. A TC won't even care what the folder is called.
The actuall problem of 'dude, where did I leave my document?' is a problem common to all current OS's. Some OS's are already trying to solve it by organizing things for what they are and not for where they are.

C) TC may need to edit stuff. At least don't prevent her from doing it by not showing a text editor. (Text editors and word processors are tools meant for two different tasks)

Sure 80% of the users use 20% of the applications... ejem ejem, do all the users use the same 20 %? So, make the most used applications easy, but keep the rest possible and accessible.

Keep it simple but not dumbed down.

D) Finally TC does not leave in the vacum. If TC want's or needs to use a computer, he will ask for help or enroll in a training course.

Every TC knows her limitations. Even when he's used one computer he asks for a walthrough when borrowing another one.

Hey, I was once a TC computer user. Of course it was 23 years ago and It did not last for long. I actually started with a course.
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