What is a "frugal" install?

[olivertreend]

Thanks!
I just have one other question. It is really off topic, but it seemed a waste to start a whole new topic to find an answer.
I just wanted to know: what is frugal? I've seen lots of discussions about how they have a frugal installation of Puppy Linux. What does this mean??

[Flash]

Oh, please do start a separate thread for each topic. It makes the forum ever so much easier to use, both for people trying to find answers by reading the threads, and for the people trying to answer your questions.

[GuestToo]

a full, complete install copies each uncompressed file that is in the Puppy operating system's file system to a dedicated partition ... so there will be the directories /bin, /dev, /etc. /lib, /mnt, /proc, /root, /sbin, /var etc etc etc on the partition, each filled with hundreds of files

a frugal (or poor man's) install just copies the files on the CD to the hard drive ... a boot loader program can boot Puppy from those files exactly the same as if you boot from the CD

so a frugal install is not a complete install, where a dedicated partition is created and the files in the Puppy file system are copied to the dedicated partition ... for a frugal install, the 3 or 4 files on the CD are copied to the hard drive and they are booted from the hard drive exactly the same way they would have been booted from the CD

that is, a frugal install is just like booting from the CD disc, except you don't need the cd disc or drive

so with a frugal install are 1) you don't need the cd and 2) the hard drive is faster and quieter than the cd drive ... and there are other advantages to a frugal install

[Lobster]

ahem - the stoopid questions are the good ones. I now know that I have never done a frugal install and I want to have a go ...

So the first step is copying all the files to the HD. OK
Are there ready made boot scripts?
Do I use the Universal Installer?

What is required is a 'Frugalnstall' Wiki page.

This has come up many times on the forum and yet . . .



Be kind

[msumner]

Hi Lobster,

It does exist. This is in the 2.13 manual:

http://tmxxine.com/pm/p1.html#__AbiTOC8__

I believe it has your name on it

[GuestToo]

if you have copied the files from the cd to hda1 ... Puppy is installed on the hard drive

now you need to install a boot loader to start Puppy, if you don't have one installed

make a directory (folder) on hda1 called boot

make a directory in /boot called grub

make a file in /boot/grub called menu.lst (that's LST,not one-st)

put something like this in menu.lst:

title Puppy
root (hd0,0)
kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEDIA=idehd
initrd /initrd.gz

your Grub boot loader is now configured

if you boot Windows too, you also would want to put this in the menu.lst file:

title Windows
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1

you can install Grub by copying the files in /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc to the /boot/grub directory ... /boot/grub will probably be in /mnt/home ... you actually only need the stage1 and stage2 files, and the stage1_5 file for the file system that /boot/grub is on ... but you might as well copy them all ... though stage2_eltorito is definitely not needed

now, to actually install the Grub boot loader to the mbr (first sector of the hard drive) you would type this in an rxvt console window:

grub
root (hd0,0)
setup (hd0)
quit

Grub (Grand Unified Boot loader) should now be installed and configured

so basically, to install Puppy to the hard drive, you copy 4 files from the cd to the hard drive

to install Grub, you copy a few files from the cd to the hard drive and make a text file telling Grub how to boot Puppy ... to install the Grub program, you run grub and type setup

and that's about it

if for some reason, the hard drive doesn't boot properly, you should still be able to boot Puppy from the CD

[GuestToo]

if your hda1 partition is a Windows NTFS file system, i don't think you can install Grub on it

you can install Grub on a fat32/vfat partition

or you can install Grub4win

in any case, if you copy the files from the cd to the hard drive, Puppy is 99% installed on the hard drive anyway, even if you still need to boot from the cd

[bostonvaulter]

what's the difference between an option 1 and an option 2 install? I would favor calling them by different names. I think option 2 is a full hard drive install.

I'm updating the wiki page about installing http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Installing/ but it still has a ways to go. help would be appreciated

Jason

[Lobster]

and that's about it

Yes I have tried this before and this time . . . following your instructions I was able to do it . . . easily. Luckily I had XP on the harddrive - and for once GRUB is offering me a choice. I put an aero (vista) front end on Xp much like in Viz - however XP is just so slow (compared to Puppy in memory), I tried using it a couple of days back. Not sure why I would anymore . . .

I seemed to have knocked 15-20 secs off my boot time

It is about 25 secs - maybe 35 secs from cold boot. That is in Viz.

Hooray!

We have no script for this?

Bostonvaulter please add G2's instructs to the wiki

This has been quite a revelation for me

Thanks guys for advice and putting up with me [wipes away salty tear]

[GuestToo]

you can set Grub to boot Puppy by default, after say 8 seconds, by putting something like this in menu.lst:

default 0
timeout 8

title Puppy
root (hd0,0)
kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEDIA=idehd
initrd /initrd.gz

title Windows
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1

or set the timeout to 0 to boot immediately to Puppy without asking

you can set the colours of the text of the Grub menu if you like, or even use a splash screen

[Bruce B]

As an addition to GuestToo's comment about changing the text colors, these are the colors you can use. I borrowed this information verbatim from the GRUB manual.

-------------

Change the menu colors. The color normal is used for most lines in the menu (see Menu interface), and the color highlight is used to highlight the line where the cursor points. If you omit highlight, then the inverted color of normal is used for the highlighted line. The format of a color is foreground/background. foreground and background are symbolic color names. A symbolic color name must be one of these:

* black
* blue
* green
* cyan
* red
* magenta
* brown
* light-gray

These below can be specified only for the foreground.

* dark-gray
* light-blue
* light-green
* light-cyan
* light-red
* light-magenta
* yellow
* white

[rcrsn51]

The issue of booting a frugal install on an NTFS partition is also discussed here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=16950

[HairyWill]

Guys,
We seem to have been answering loads of install type questions recently when there is loads of stuff on the wiki.

On this subject in the wiki we already have.
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PartitionsVsDrives
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Installing/
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PdisK
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HardDiskInstall
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PartitioningForPuppy
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HardDriveInstallBruce
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HDDInstallChecklist
the checklist is particularly good
plus more

I think some coordination is needed.
Maybe format the wiki pages into an install wizard that asks simple questions and gives links to the next pages based on the answers

[Lobster]

you can set Grub to boot Puppy by default, after say 8 seconds, by putting something like this in menu.lst:

default 0
timeout 8

gonna try a timeout 3



another advantage (I have heard you say this many times) once the frugall is set up . . . all you need do is copy fles from the new CD (Viz RC4 should be available shortly) and presto a new frugall install - is that right?

[lvds]

Hi all,

As this was discussed once, we found many people have hard time at running GRUB, or installing GRUB because they are frightened at perhaps ruining their partitions. So i can repost here a HOWTO i wrote to explain how one can have a "frugal" install WITHOUT grub ; Original conversation was here in case you need : http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 9&start=45

Here is my SIMPLE how-to, as i had really hard time with others. After reading the how-to forum or other people tests i was simply not able to have install running, and i really don't know why. But i finally found ONE way really working very good, and very simple.

The need i had was to install puppy on a USB hard disk or on a USB key and to have it also read/write able for windows. So i could download puppy distros and test them without burning cd, and erase and do it again with another distro.

IT WORKS THE SAME on IDE hard disk, or compact flash cards with adapter.

How-to install PUPPY distribution on hard disk (USB or IDE/SATA) or USB key

1. format disk to FAT32, or format USB key using the HP tools - download here:
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/files ... 23839.html

2. download a distro and extract every file from the ISO to the newly formatted disk. You can use ISOMaster or unrar (or winrar in case you still are within windows)

3. take your text editor and create a text file contaning the following lines inside,
uncomment the line for your PMEDIA context
and save it to SYSLINUX.CFG

Code: Select all

#default vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 initrd=initrd.gz PMEDIA=idecd
#default vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 initrd=initrd.gz PMEDIA=usbflash
#default vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 initrd=initrd.gz PMEDIA=usbhd
append QPM=true

4. use syslinux.exe to make your disk bootable. You might need to use the -f switch to force it, it's ok.

exemple if your disk is seen as e: use the command:
syslinux -f e:

5. reboot your computer and ensure your bios is ok to boot on usb device if you are installing on usb.

*****

This simple method works great. If you want to change and test another distro all you have to do is download another distro and extract all files from ISO (with unrar or isomaster) and copy them on your usb device or your hard drive. It works the same for IDE hard disks, just select the fine PMEDIA parameter.

Another real good thing is someone using windows and loading your usb device is not able to read your own files saved in puppy ! Though the sfs are not encrypted windows users can't read them.

Perhaps someone may also give us a tip on how-to encrypt the files ?
You can use your puppy linux distro with complete usability and even store your work and increase the storage puppy space. But by formatting in FAT32 you will not be able to use very large store files, the limit is around 4Go i think (?) Perhaps you can use REISERFS if it suits best your needs, for example if you need to store videos files, or even store them on another partition formatted in REISERFS.

Best regards,
Laurent.

Watch http://www.myNTDtv.net It's worth to look at !
.

[puppyfan12]

hi guys,

I learned how to do all this including a frugal install on an NTFS partition (which does work, btw) by reading the thread Index of resources for Beginners Help forum that is stickied to the very top of the Beginners Help ( Start Here) on this forum.

There are several links about Installing on and booting from HD, the first being "How to do a "frugal" install The recommended way to install Puppy".

In many documents linked from that thread, a frugal install is interchanged with the term "poor mans install".

[Pizzasgood]

what's the difference between an option 1 and an option 2 install? I would favor calling them by different names. I think option 2 is a full hard drive install.

Option 1 is a Frugal install, also known as "Poor-Man's" and "Coexist". Option 2 is a full install.

But the funny thing is that the "full" install is inferior to the "frugal" install, in general. In low ram situations it could perform better, but a frugal install should automatically not load into ram when you have less than a certain threshold (128MB, last I checked. May have increased since then), in which case they'd be about the same. But the frugal still wouldn't use as much space as a full install, and it's easier to back up or replace, and less messy.

In addition to GRUB, you could use Lilo or a boot floppy. Or whatever other boot-loader you have handy, so long as it supports Puppy. It's just that GRUB comes with Puppy, so usually it's simpler to just use it.

Also, there is a menu entry for installing GRUB. It isn't pretty, but it works (for me, anyway).

Kirk has posted info about using encrypted save-files, and the option is built into Pizzapup 3.xx. WhoDo said 2.15CE was going to support it, but I haven't checked to see if it actually does yet. I don't think it had an option in the shutdown scripts though. Pizzapup does. Also, I think Barry said he's adding it to 2.16.

On my desktop, I'm satisfied with having a password in GRUB (yes, GRUB can have passwords). It's more convenient because I can do all the input at once (turn on, input password, select version to boot). If I used encryption, I'd have to wait until it's half booted to enter the password, which is a little annoying. I did opt for encryption on my new used laptop though. Mostly just because I could. I won't have any sensitive data on it.

[GuestToo]

once the frugall is set up . . . all you need do is copy fles from the new CD (Viz RC4 should be available shortly) and presto a new frugall install - is that right?

you can just mount the iso file:

mount -o loop puppy.iso /mnt/data

and copy the new files to the hard drive ... you don't actually need to burn a cd, if you don't want to

if the Puppy files are on a Windows partition, it's a good idea to defrag the partition from Windows, after you copy the Puppy files to the hard drive

[WhoDo]

you can just mount the iso file:

mount -o loop puppy.iso /mnt/data

and copy the new files to the hard drive ... you don't actually need to burn a cd, if you don't want to

..and if it IS Puppy 2.15CE that you choose, then you can also use the excellent ISOmaster gui utility to extract files from the ISO file without burning to CD.

Cheers

[WhoDo]

WhoDo said 2.15CE was going to support it, but I haven't checked to see if it actually does yet.

I wanted to include it, but time grew far too short to get it right so no, it isn't in 2.15CE. I'm pretty sure that it will be in Barry's 2.16 though.