What have to be better in PUPPY Linux

Message

ARAN · #1 Post by **ARAN** » Wed 28 Dec 2005, 17:43

The Big Weaknesses in Puppy Linux at the moment and what
have to be better in Puppy Linux from the view of a Puppy User and further Custumer.

Hello to all !

I have now for about three days Worked with Puppy Linux and can
say that from all Linux Distros which i have tryed ( Ubuntu, DSL, ..) Puppy Linux is the best Distro which i have tryed.
Big complements to all Developers and Supporters of Puppy Linux for such a newebee friendly and very productive Linux Distro.

The work with Puppy Linux has however show me some weaknesses which
from my side of view have to be solved if the Developers want that
Puppy Linux one time will be sucessfull used by the Users/Custumers.

Puppy Linux Weakness 1: System Volume Level !

After the start of Puppy Linux i open the Programm xmms to play a mp3 File.
Becouse the System Volume Level is very Low set by Puppy i start xtmix to turn up the System Volume Level
from 50% to 100%.
The big Weakness of Puppy Linux now is that Puppy dont save this Volume setting for the next Reboot.
If i reboot now Puppy Linux and try to play a mp3 File Puppy Linux has forget the Last System Volume seting in xtmix.
After every booting of Puppy Linux i have to setup the System Volume in XTMIX every time once again from new.
Thats really very bad.
From my side of View Puppy Linux has to rember my last System Volume Level Setting.

Puppy Linux Weakness 2: Two Mouse Click !

I understand Puppy Linux as a Distro for People how want to Change from Windows to Linux without to learn 2 Years how to use Puppy Linux.
The goal is probably a newbee friendly easy Distro for People how has Used Windows and now want to try or change to Linux.
As a user how has worked long Years on Windows Systems i am trained to open or start Programms by clicking on the Icon allways two Time.
The big Problem and Weakness of Puppy Linux is exactly that Puppy Linux after the first start don\t give
me the possibility to open and start Programms in Puppy Linux by clicking on the Icons allways two Time.
Every time i am working in Puppy Linux and want to start a Programm by Clicking on the Icon the first thing what i think is allwasy
"FUCK WHAT I HAVE NOW TO DO NOW? DO I HAVE TO CLICK ON THE ICON ONE TIME OR TWO TIME."
Thats really really bad and a big weakness in Puppy Linux.
Especially for the big part of the Puppy Useres how have Puppy Linux working side by side with Windows.
Changing from windows to Puppy Linux and from Puppy Linux to windows
by using two different mouse clicks for starting application confuse the User a Lot.
Give the User the Possibility to start and Open Programms in Puppy Linux Like he does this in the Same way in Windows.
The Lack of this Feature make Puppy Linux not newbee friendly.
It make the user more or less to hate Puppy Linux after he has worked in Windows and want to boot Puppy Linux.

Puppy Linux Weakness 3: Keyboard settings !

Puppy Linux support only a small amount of Keyboard Layouts.
I am missing for example in Puppy Linux the Keyboard layout for the Swiss German, Swiss French and Swiss italian Keyboard Layout.
How should a User / Custumer use Puppy Linux if Puppy Linux dont even support his KeyBoard Layout.
Please make that Puppy Linux at least support the same amount number of Keyboard Layouts like Ubuntu for Example.

More puppy weaknesses and what have to be better in Puppy Linux
will follow.

Thanks for all.

BarryK · #2 Post by **BarryK** » Wed 28 Dec 2005, 21:48

Thanks for the feedback.

The sound-level thing can be done. I have written it into my to-do book.

Yes, the problem of 2-clicks and 1-click!
It's awkward in puppy, as there is a mix of both.
The easiest solution is to set the default to double-click on the desktop
-- I need everyone's opinion on this!
-- should we make double-click the default on the desktop, for consistency with Windows, and also consistency within Puppy?

Keyboard layouts... it's a work in progress.
You should look at the Xmodmap chooser developed by MU, maybe that would help -- I'm thinking of integrating that into Puppy, when I figure out a bit more how all the pieces fit together.

Ian · #3 Post by **Ian** » Wed 28 Dec 2005, 22:06

Although people migrating from Windows will no doubt be used to double clicking I think that once they get used to single clicking they will find that they can do things faster and more smoothly.

Mastering double clicking in Windows is a frustrating experience, especially for computer newbies whereas a single click is more efficient.

In the instances where double clicking is required in Puppy people will soon discover this for themselves.

My vote is to retain the present setup as I feel that it contributes to the speed and character of Puppy.

Ian · #4 Post by **Ian** » Wed 28 Dec 2005, 22:10

I had trouble trying to submit a reply and it looks like it has been posted multiple times.

This needs deleting.

Lobster · #5 Post by **Lobster** » Wed 28 Dec 2005, 22:51

Students always single click - it takes them a while to figure out double clicling - it serves no improved service

The worse that happens is some people will open a program twice for a while . . .
Long term they will have the simpler and better option

Ian · #6 Post by **Ian** » Wed 28 Dec 2005, 22:53

This also needs deleting.

ARAN · #7 Post by **ARAN** » Thu 29 Dec 2005, 00:05

I want only say that after a little using of the one click method
i itself like very much this possibility to start Applications.

It is easy, fast and intellegent.

However !
The very big problem is that People how work more than 6 Hours per Day in Windows and use there the
Double Click method to start application and then comme Home
to use Puppy Linux on there Computers where puppy Linux only support the one Click method to start application this difference of using the Computer is very Confusing.

Its something like driving a car for six hours on the right side of the Road in Europe and after this
then driving the same Car on the Left side of the Road in England.
Such a constellation give allways crushs and that is from my side of view not very intellegent ans user friendly.

My sugestion is to ask the User how he want to start Applications.
By using the Double Click Method or the One Click method.

I itself would choise the two Click method becouse first i work the bigest time of the Day in a Windows System and second i am to much trained now starting Application with two Clicks in windows.

Changing my mentality to the one click method is from my side of view also very dumb at the moment becouse the One Click method
works not in every Programms in Puppy Linux the same Way.

In one Application you can open a Folder by one Click in a another Application you can open a folder only by a double Click.
This diiference let Puppy Looks like a half fineshed Product becouse the user interface system dont show consestence and unity.

My sugesstion is once again ask the user at the first Puppy Linux Boot
how he want to start the Application in Puppy Linux and save this setting.

For a more user frienldy Puppy Linux the default choice in the Dialog which would be showed at the first boot could be the Double Click method followed by the One Click method.

The People how allready know the One Click method could in this dialog deselect the Double Click method and select the One Click method.

bombayrockers · #8 Post by **bombayrockers** » Thu 29 Dec 2005, 00:18

I have been working to get an alternative desktop manager for puppy. I have tried idesk and xtdesk. idesk has support for double click , however it is resourc e intensive. xtdesk is ased on idesk, uses much less amount of memory almost the same as rox , much faster at bootup and it does not manage the wallpaper unlike idesk .It is not being actively developed, ut DSL uses an customized version of xtdesk which has support for dnd and double clicking. If you are a DSL 2.0 user copy .usr/bin/xtdesk and $HOME/.xtdesktop and post them as a tar.

ARAN · #9 Post by **ARAN** » Thu 29 Dec 2005, 00:40

Hello Bombayrockers !

As first thank you very much for your helpfull answer.

I itself has used Damn Small Linux only for about two Days as a Live CD.
After this i have came to the result that DSL is not my Distro becouse it don\t support my Hardware such good like Puppy and the Software which is avaible for
Puppy as DotPupps is bigger and fresher as DSL provide it.
The most of the users looks for a Linux distro which support her Hardware at best and provide the biggest and freshes Software for Linux.

For this Reason i cant post you something about DSL becouse i have overwritten the DSL CDRW with Puppy.

I hope i have understand your question very well and not missunderstand it.

GuestToo · #10 Post by **GuestToo** » Thu 29 Dec 2005, 02:05

Puppy Linux Weakness 1: System Volume Level !

you can put something like setvol 0 82 82 in /etc/rc.d/rc.local to set the volume to anything you like

type setvol for more information

or you can install Aumix (36k) ... it automatically saves the volume settings when you change them, and it can restore the settings automatically when Puppy boots

Puppy Linux Weakness 2: Two Mouse Click !

i hate double clicking ... the first thing i do when i reinstall Windows is set it to single click mode

it's easy to set it the way you like in Rox options ... for Rox 2.3, check or uncheck the Single Click To Open checkbox in the Pinboard tab

bombayrockers · #11 Post by **bombayrockers** » Thu 29 Dec 2005, 05:14

ARAN,
If you have the iso stored on your hd you can mount it in puppy and extract the required files.

#12 Post by MU » Thu 29 Dec 2005, 05:31

No doubleclick please.
I saw several Windows-Computers configured for single click, in Linux it is common, and for Newbees it is easier to learn.

I think it is ok, to keep Puppy "Windows-like", but in this case I would stay at the "one-click".
I think it has reasons, that Microsoft added the single-click later (they made several studies on how people get best results with the computer).

---
Keyboard-layout:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=4656

Seems to work more or less, for some people the ALT-key does not work with the supplied layouts.
The program simply lists all keyboard.gz that come with it, then extracts the cosen, copies it to /root/.Xmodmap, and runs the command "xmodmap /root/.Xmodmap". Quite simple construction.

Mark

vern72023 · #13 Post by **vern72023** » Thu 29 Dec 2005, 05:38

I work as a windows / linux integrator for a living and spend moretime than most in windows.
Like most people who have to do that I use single click not double - its been there in windows for quite a while now -
Lets not regress to the old double click days to match something that even MS doen't tout anymore

Alucard_the_dex · #14 Post by **Alucard_the_dex** » Thu 29 Dec 2005, 08:14

Well every arguement here is right in its own way, Its not the noob consumers view and at that If it was it would be one outa millions. We should take a sturdy version of puppy burn a few CDs and go to a group of Windows users who dont even know how to empty their recycling bin (One of my Steps freinds honestly didnt know and thought it deleted them automaticaly leaving over 100 items in her bin) After a week ask um for their thoughts and collect Data. I was thikning of going back to my school and asking my friend to hand out the CDs at the computer Arts class......but i hate human contact in rl so thats a no go.

jcagle · #15 Post by **jcagle** » Thu 29 Dec 2005, 16:07

but i hate human contact in rl so thats a no go.

Yes, I much prefer extraterrestrial contact. Humans are scary. Soon I shall return to my home planet of Zordon and play Missile Command on the Atari Flashback 2 that I received from my brother for Christmas. (Yes, us extraterrestrials celebrate Christmas too.)

. · #16 Post by . » Sun 01 Jan 2006, 21:41

i think double-click should be the default.

IMO single click is not going to be easier for 'newbs' as almost all of them will have used (and have to use) windows at work, schools, libraries, friend's houses etc. in a perfect world where u get rid of the windows monopoly, then, *perhaps* the single-click would be better. but in the real world, puppy is going to be easier to use for more people with a double click default.
things like single/double-click can be confusing for the 'lowest common denominatior' of pc users, and after learning it from windows (see above), un-learning it would cause further confusion.

some people may find single-click to be better for power-users.. but power users should be able to configure it easy enough anyway.

whatever it is it should be consistant across the gui, and configureable (and puppy remember the configuration).

Brian C · #17 Post by **Brian C** » Tue 17 Jan 2006, 04:25

I dislike double-clicking. On my Windows machine, I have set the clicks to single-click. I think it should be thi sway everywhere.

oomisilekootsi · #18 Post by **oomisilekootsi** » Thu 02 Feb 2006, 18:08

I like the fact that I only have to click the mouse once, in order to launch applications in puppy. Not only it is more efficient, but in my experience with double-clicking, sometimes it doesn't work especially if you have clicked too fast and then have to double-click again. Isn't that more annoying?--while all you need to do in puppy is to click once--- and don't blink--- the
apps launch very fast!!

costal martignier · #19 Post by **costal martignier** » Thu 02 Feb 2006, 18:17

i think icons on a desktop is something absoluteley bad...
why first hide or move windows on the desktop away only for klicking on a desktop icon..

i never saw the reason for desktop icons....

a quickstartbar is the only way to launch applications effectley...
i miss that really in the default jwm

there you also only need one click for launching...

desktop icons = no go

IMHO

regards
costal

bombayrockers · #20 Post by **bombayrockers** » Thu 02 Feb 2006, 19:05

costal,

i think icons on a desktop is something absoluteley bad...
why first hide or move windows on the desktop away only for klicking on a desktop icon..

i never saw the reason for desktop icons....

a quickstartbar is the only way to launch applications effectley...
i miss that really in the default jwm Sad

tablaunch should solve your problem.

http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.p ... =tablaunch

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

What have to be better in PUPPY Linux

What have to be better in PUPPY Linux

single-click, please!