Recommendations - frugal vs full install, dual boot options?

[Lady_Artemis]

Hello again,

as some of you may know, i have been struggling with an issue with Flashplayer. Basically kept crashing the browser whenever a page containing flash was loaded. It appears after testing a newer kernel of Puppy that i am still having the same issue, which now appears to be a RAM issue.

So....mikeb has recommended the option of a manually activated swap file on my hard drive as i have been using a usb setup and as such do not have a swap file at present.

I am running an old laptop with 256mb RAM, 1.4Ghz processor, other specs i cannot remember just now.

I am looking at possibly doing an install to my hard drive, but, as i still require windows for some things, will be looking at a dual boot system.

So, i am now wondering which type of install will be better for me, or rather, would be better equipped to handle heavy flash pages, without browser crashes.

Would a frugal install be better suited to my situation, or would a full install be more reliable?

Also, i have searched all over the net, and cannot find any information as to how much space is used for each type of install (based on just the puppy 4.31 iso file)?

Another point i'd like to ask, is what is the recommended hard drive space or partition for each of these install methods?

And finally, i have seen several options for installing a boot-loader to dual boot, but, as i am not very knowledgeable in Linux (yet) am not sure which type of dual boot install method should be used.

I currently have 2 Windows partitions, the first holds the Windows OS the second one will be re-partitioned into 2 new partitions, one of which will be used for linux. From what i have read, this may be the safest way without damaging my Windows drive.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated as i really need to get at least one system stable enough to handle flash, windows is way too slow to do much with flash, and currently my RAM won't do much good running a live version.


Thank you all in advance,

hope you guys have a great day!

[omskates]

You only need a few GB for the puppy to HDD install. The installer will make swap for you unless its already there. Windows like to spread itself all over the HDD so defragging etc. is in order. This is A GOOD GUIDE IMO and steps for the GRUB boot loader http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=43203 Probably good to read through the entire thread before beginning. Curious but no need to answer; what is it you still need windows for?

[Lady_Artemis]

Thanks for your reply omskates,

I'll have a good read of that thread in a moment. I have just finished defragging both drives under Windows, but, have not yet re-partitioned the second partition as yet....i want to make sure i have all the info i need before i make any permanent changes.

To answer your question, we still use Windows for a few applications, but, mostly for Adobe Photoshop (my partner is still debating about converting, and won't until i can prove to him that i can get it to run under linux - a decent challenge hehehe).

I have found most of the programs i run, will run under Wine so i am happy enough....though if i can get Flash to work reliably i will be a LOT happier. Though, i am still trying to find a decent mobile phone manager program that is designed for linux, though i am sure there are many out there, it's not a major priority just now, but, the flash player is (we need it for work)

[Sylvander]

I have:
1. A conventional install of BoxPup on a 3GB ext3 partition, of which 1.6GB is free.
Now and then I make a mistake, and the partition fills with trash and I must eliminate that.

2. Two other ext3 partitions for frugal installs.
Both about 4GB with 1GB free.

3. 500MB Linux swap partition is seldom needed.
I've only seen it in use when scanning the Windows partition for infection.

[Lady_Artemis]

I have:
1. A conventional install of BoxPup on a 3GB ext3 partition, of which 1.6GB is free.
Now and then I make a mistake, and the partition fills with trash and I must eliminate that.

2. Two other ext3 partitions for frugal installs.
Both about 4GB with 1GB free.

3. 500MB Linux swap partition is seldom needed.
I've only seen it in use when scanning the Windows partition for infection.

Thanks for your reply Sylvander,

in regards to your frugal, do you notice any instabilities when running any programs or websites that are heavy in flash? also, do you mind if i ask how much RAM you have? as i am running 256Mb RAM as a rough guide

Also, out of the conventional install and the frugal, which in your opion runs more reliably/efficiently?

[Béèm]

If you choose for a frugal install then the Lin'N'Win is a good approach.
I run a couple of years now using it.
Advantage for me, I could leave my Windows machine untouched.

[mikeb]

If you choose for a frugal install then the Lin'N'Win is a good approach.
I run a couple of years now using it.
Advantage for me, I could leave my Windows machine untouched.

me to plus resizing windows on ntfs has been known to break it. Also frugal 'shoud' make a swap file...indeed it could install alongside windows without any repartitioning.

If the lnwin description makes you crosseyed have a look at my condensed version...meant for 2000 but more or less applies to XP too...just add the one line to boot.ini.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=38846

As you have already spare space a full would take up less ram and you could make a swap partition...but still use grub4dos to avoid any boot disasters...install but not grub...if a frugal install is used grub is not offered anyway.

mike

[diaeresis]

Lin & Win here as well.
I am using Puppy 431 with the latest Firefox (I let it update itself) and Flash 10. I have a 1 gb pupsave which is almost empty and don't get any browser crashes.
Lin & Win seems so simple and doesn't mess with Windows which is A Good Thing.
I can't do without Windows either yet. My scanner is spurned by Linux buts works beautifully with Windows 98 thorough to XP. my mobile phone is spurned by Linux, my usb headset is spurned by Linux and my id card reader is also unusable. Then again XP with latest service packs and security updates takes nearly 10 minutes to completely boot on this machine and Puppy is less than a minute!

[omskates]

I can't do without Windows either yet. My scanner is spurned by Linux buts works beautifully with Windows 98 thorough to XP. my mobile phone is spurned by Linux, my usb headset is spurned by Linux and my id card reader is also unusable. !

That is a big pain; It is often required to purchase hardware beforehand with Linux in mind. Unfortunately that doesn't help cross over users whom already own working hardware . HP is good about open sourcing (is that a word?) their drivers for example. That may be a discussion for another topic, sorry I'll stop now.

[Béèm]

As you have already spare space a full would take up less ram and you could make a swap partition...but still use grub4dos to avoid any boot disasters...install but not grub...if a frugal install is used grub is not offered anyway.

I use a swapfile having only 256MB.
When called pupswap.swp it is loaded automatically at boot.

[mikeb]

You have been spurned...with a current project getting the hardware happy was the usual major headache ...took far longer than getting windows running fast again....hmm but we are persistant. On the other hand when popping in the cd and everything runs et voila which does happen its a joy.
On and I've had driver hell on windows tooo...usually with mobile phone software.

mike

ps does puppy still automatically make a swap file like it used too?

[mikeb]

I use a swapfile having only 256MB

I imported a 50MB powerpoint files (!!!) into open office and it needed 600MB+ of ram to do it on a machine with 256MB ram so I tend to be generous nowadays as linux does not autoresize swap like windows

mike

[Sylvander]

1. "do you notice any instabilities when running any programs or websites that are heavy in flash?"
Can't say I have.
Only thing I've noticed is:
Very infrequently, I'd go to a page, or do something at a page, and all Firefox windows would close.
When restarting Firefox, I'd need to untick that window from the list of windows to be restored, or else they will all close again at the attempt to re-open.

2. "how much RAM you have?"
256MB.

3. "out of the conventional install and the frugal, which in your opion runs more reliably/efficiently?"
(a) I normally boot and run the conventional installation of BoxPup from the ext3 partition on the internal IDE HDD connected via a PCI to IDE SCSI RAID controller card.
But that's only because it seems the easiest/quickest to boot, and I think I better understand working with folders/files on a partition, rather than on a filesystem inside a pupsave file etc.
Just as well nothing has gone seriously wrong with that.
Or at least nothing from which I cannot recover by using an image backup, or Xfe-made copy of the partition contents.

(b) The frugal install is much easier to set up, and also easier to backup.
I began with a frugal install, then installed to a USB Flash Drive, and only attempted [and succeeded with] a conventional install once I'd got to know more about Puppy Linux.
And even then I only did it with the help of an expert [moderator Paul Komski] at the PC-Guide.

(c) I have at least 3 Puppies available [actually 5 right now].
Any one can fix any other and Windows.
BoxPup 413 on sda3.
Puppy 4.2.1 on a Flash Drive installed from a live CD.
Puppy 4.3.1 on a Flash Drive installed from an exe file in Windows.
Muppy-008.4c frugal on sda10.
Puppy-4.31.1 frugal on sda11.
All work just fine.

[Béèm]

I use a swapfile having only 256MB

I imported a 50MB powerpoint files (!!!) into open office and it needed 600MB+ of ram to do it on a machine with 256MB ram so I tend to be generous nowadays as linux does not auto resize swap like windows

mike

A very long time ago, I made a swap file of 282MB, So I have some 645168 bytes available in total. In that period I made the file by hand (so to answer you question on this as well) thus I don't know if it's automatic now as this swap file is used on any puppy I try/use.

And indeed without a swapfile, OOo is very slow even in the swriter program.

[Lady_Artemis]

If you choose for a frugal install then the Lin'N'Win is a good approach.
I run a couple of years now using it.
Advantage for me, I could leave my Windows machine untouched.

Thanks mikeb,

I just had a quick read of your post, and noticed mention of "unetbootin". I have used this program to set up my USB setups, but was not aware it could be used for a proper install to the hard drive, actually, i probably wouldn't be game enough to use it to install to my hard drive on the off chance i screwed up something (which i have a few times with the USB's)

I have to ask a couple of questions regarding your simplified method,

1. are the files from the cd the same as the usb live version (i am assuming they are, but just checking the be sure)

2. will this automatically setup a swap file, or will i still need to create and activate one manually? if not, how would i go about creating and manually activating one?

3. Is it possible to set up the swap file on a different partition rather than the same partition as the files are copied to?

and 4. when you said "When you reboot you should get 2 options...If you choose puppy menu then you will get the option to boot puppy. " i am assuming this means it will give the option to boot into either puppy OR windows?

I know these are dumb questions to which it should be obvious to see their answers, but, i just need to check so i know exactly what i am doing before i make any changes.

Also, many thanks to Beem, omskates, sylvander and diaeresis for your input as well, it is greatly appreciated and very helpful in making the decision for a frugal install.

[Lady_Artemis]

also, i should ask if it is possible to use my existing save file, rather than creating a new save file?

[mikeb]

I am distraught...that was not my quote

hmm a list...
1.yes apart from lslinux/syslinux.cfg...they are for booting usb
2+3. No one seems to know....I believe it needs to be on the same partition as the puppy files hence not suitable for flash(making a swap partition if you have already space gets picked up by any linux from anywhere by the way).It will get picked up automatically....check with free in a terminal.

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dd if=/dev/zero of=/initrd/mnt/dev_save/pupswap.swp count=500000
mkswap /initrd/mnt/dev_save/pupswap.swp  (may need -f)

makes a 500MB swap file

pfix=noram added to the kernel line means the pup_431.sfs is not loaded to ram to gain space.

4. You will get the normal windows menu with XP and an entry for puppy/linux. If you select the latter you will get a grub menu with just puppy...you can play with both later. Avoid unetbooting...has been known to trash windows booting....this method is pretty safe...worse that happens is nothing but windows booting remains as is...

hope that clarifies

mike

edit

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swapon /initrd/mnt/dev_save/pupswap.swp

enables it

copy and middle click to paste to the terminal

oops noticed had said pup_swap ahhh no undeline in there

[Lady_Artemis]

sorry mike,

i was meaning to quote your reference to your post regarding the frugal install, however at the time i was posting my browser came up with an SMTP error, i didn't actually notice the quote had referenced another member

Now, i have just gone and copied all necessary files accross to C:/ and edited my boot.ini file. The download that was available from the other thread had C:\GRLDR="Puppy Menu" in capitals, which is how i have put it into the boot.ini.

Ok, time to reboot and test if this is going to work...then i can create the swap file...fingers crossed!

[Lady_Artemis]

ok, no luck

The boot menu came up, but, when i selected puppy from the menu it then came back stating "file not found". It is looking for a puppy 4.12 file rather than my current file which is version 4.31.

The download i used was the "puppy frugal setup.tar.gz" that was available in the other thread with the simplified method.

[mikeb]

Code: Select all

title Puppy 412
kernel (hd0,0)/vmlinuz PMEDIA=idehd
initrd (hd0,0)/initrd.gz

ok well the first line is just for display ...you can change it to whatever you like as long as it starts with 'titile'

its the next 2......if you have the files in the second partition you would need (hd0,1) instead of (hd0,0).

vmlinuz and initrd.gz names should match plus add the subfolder if you used one...eg /puppy/vmlinuz...I assume you copied these 2 files.

You are close...the file you downloaded was for another setup so a little adjustment is probably needed.

This should at least get you puppy starting to boot....

mike