(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Lack of understanding leads to being befuddled when dealing with Linux sometimes.
inside Puppy community
Outside Puppy community

Some people are good teachers. Some are not. Just basic Human nature. I give respect for at least making the effort to help when assistance is asked. Even if it flies over another persons head. At least a friendly hand was extended in friendship.

I also know necessity improves ones ability to learn new things. While if one person is just dabbling/dipping their toes in the water so to speak. May not have the incentive to make the effort like one treading water in the deep end.

I equate running and learning linux for new users coming from Windows like a person who has driven a car their whole life and is thrown onto a motorcycle.

Both do the same thing and will get you to your destination. Operating them are worlds apart though. There are advantages and disadvantages with either mode of transport.

I like speed, the wind in my face,agility, learning new things, and freedom. Probably why I am a Linux Biker.
It takes a certain mindset to be a person like me. But I realize everyone marches to his or hers own tune. So I don't lose much sleep over people who can not adapt to change.

Change can come slowly or quickly depending on outside environmental changes. I was taught "adapt or die" when faced with with change.

I really shouldn't post on a Friday night after cruzing with my buds and flying the friendly skies.

I talked with somebody today who had only been using Linux a few months and having problems trying to get Ubuntu set up on a VM like they wanted it so they could run it from a USB stick at school, and wanted to know if "FreeBSD was any easier" to use than Linux.

I sent them this way.

It drops you at the command line after install and you have to compile everything, from X, to a desktop or WM, on up, and while it's something I enjoy doing it's not something I'd expect somebody who wasn't at home with Linux to be able to do on their own the first time around.

Hopefully they'll give Puppy a shot.

I suspect most people will be moving on to devices like ipads and iphones, where most everything is predetermined. There are still many older people that don't use computers at all. I don't know why anyone would bother with a linux OS that didn't enjoy the learning curve. It's kind of like worrying whether a programming language is user friendly enough, or who gets turned off by a vim editor.

I was taught "adapt or die" when faced with with change.

No pain no gain?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_pain,_no_gain

Being almost macho, I have long believed that really learning
requires an intensity or rigid focus.
Then I started to learn about Taoism . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei

Puppy allows you to easily dual boot.
So set up your bios to boot from CD or USB first (keep Puppy there)
and Ubuntu, Windows or BSD on Hard disk.

Or you can multiboot
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 004#589004

it just requires you to relearn, i bet you where befuddled the first time you used a windows desktop?

also in linux you need to learn what the equivalent windows program is such as:

windows vs linux:

photoshop = gimp
MS Office = Open Office or Libre Office
artrage = mypaint
notepad = leafpad


etc etc etc etc etc etc

Lobster wrote: Then I started to learn about Taoism . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei

"In the traditional (partly Confucian) Chinese understanding of governance, a prince has only to sit at the right place, facing south, with a prince's traditional attributes, and his country will be well governed."

Excellent advice...anything else should be prohibited by law.

gcmartin wrote:New to Linux is tough for some. Its uncomfortable

Yes, Linux OS requires keyboard and mouse. Some operating systems require just a joystick.

If user is buying the Microsoft OS then user is supporting the Microsoft OS, which sometimes will support the owner. As was written in the reclame: "The best product for YOU" i.e. not for me, i.e. not for simple personage.

If user is buying the Linux OS then user is supporting the Linux OS, which sometimes will support the owner. Santa really exists? Wow!

I wouldn't assume newcomers don't have a willingness to adapt. Well some do. And they know it's going to be different. But my experience was this:

Experienced linuxers are more than happy to help a newcomer with linux. That pretty much never is the problem.

But my advice is to take someone at their word when they say they are "new to linux". And that means they may even need help finding the terminal or realizing that it is the "square box with the # or $ you type commands in".

Also from personal experience, the basics are sometimes the hardest things to find when one does a search, as the newcomer has no idea what the correct search terms are, and the little things are hard to find documented as it is (again, the assumption EVERYONE knows THAT). Catch-22.

So be tolerant of newcomers, most of them are willing to put in the work. They just need comprehensible direction as to how to do so.

shariebeth, Spot on! With no one to practice with it's been a battle! Slowly but surely I'm getting better. This forum with all it's tips and tricks has been my roadmap! Yes I want to learn, but it ain't windows! To all please be patient with new users! Thanks to all for help to newbies..

It`s a change in the manner of thinking, that`s for sure... But it doesn`t have to be nearly as painful as it is.

I`ve said before that Linux`s diversity creates a mess. M$ is single with little diversity and isn`t quite the mess.
M$ has little to fear as the Linux community isn`t going to fix itself anytime at all.

Puppy has a small repository of apps. and building apps. for it is hazardous.
Linux and Puppy have short comings, but apps. are the biggest one of all.

sunburnt wrote:
Puppy has a small repository of apps. and building apps. for it is hazardous.
Linux and Puppy have short comings, but apps. are the biggest one of all.

Woof has provided access to large repositories, such as Ubunto and Debian in addition to a generous supply of built-in apps and available packages. For linux novices, they only need ask for specific builds from the many thousands of available linux applications. Some applications may have so many dependencies that it would defeat the purposes of a small distro.

sunburnt wrote: ... Linux`s diversity creates a mess. ...

Nice postfs1; A Rubic`s cube parts going in different directions.

jpeps; I`m looking into Puppy Lucid`s compatibility with Ubuntu Lucid.
I would think libs. would work and simple apps., but bigger apps. maybe not.
O.S. and WM specific stuff may not work, JWM is not used in Ubuntu.

sunburnt wrote:Nice postfs1;

jpeps; I`m looking into Puppy Lucid`s compatibility with Ubuntu Lucid.
I would think libs. would work and simple apps., but bigger apps. maybe not.
O.S. and WM specific stuff may not work, JWM is not used in Ubuntu.

I think I had to add a lib or two to make a musecore pet; was still far easier than compiling.

jpeps wrote:I don't know why anyone would bother with a linux OS that didn't enjoy the learning curve.

Are you joking?
There is less learning curve with Puppy than with Windows... or most devices for that matter.

Much of what is shared here is very accurate. Persons who venture in Linux/Puppy run into usage issues where we may be able to provide a ptahway in the distro which ship.

What I am wondering is would a tutorial or a "set of videos" for new user practices be a solution to making it stupidly simple for any user to get started with an official Puppy

• Should be mandatory check-off at first-boot?
• Should it be in the Menu?
• Should it be built-in or downloaded or in the cloud?
  
  Should anything be done?

One aim at opening this thread was to see if there are any ideas for practical approaches that would subtlety provide a learning curve OOTB that would prove useful? Some practical would have a positive impact on OOTB Puppy experience. And, it would produce a guidepost for understanding a proven method for operation and use. Thus, we would get more new users who would have a better settling with a known foundation. Thus, with greater positve OOTB experience we would keep a larger number of those who test Puppy.

In the case of the opening thread's 1st item, we had a new user who started, but became confused in his use and selection of the tool for adding needed functionality to his system. (We've known for years that there are problems with JAVA Virtual Machine and its need in Puppy, but, there are too many ways to go wrong and there is NO common thread for accurate embrace of JAVA into all PUPs <=== This is an example which needs fixing.) And, it looks like he did attempt to use Puppy correctly, but got lost within this subsystem installation. (To Puppy's credit, 3 distro developers have built Puppies that have the JRE built-in, OOTB; namely TaZoC (Mariner LightHouse-V5.14), Playdayz (Libre-Puppy), and 01Micko (FATSlacko). Had he started with either of these his experience would have been more nearly matching what he is accustomed to.

I think (hope) that all of us understand that 100% of ALL users who start in PC/IT will NOT start in LInux. Thus, since we ARE producing a product for public consumption, we could think of ways to make it "too easy" to get started?

This is NOT to say that stuff doesn't already exist; rather, it is to say can WE do something better by packaging what exist or by local Puppy creation that can be incorporated by Barry in Woof?

The questions have been asked here.

WHAT SAY YOU!

Edited since original
P.S. I fully recognize that there are some/many who feel it unnecessary or would call a tutorial (or anything added to Puppy for that matter to be "bloat" as they use Puppy's size as a deterrent for advancing ease of use).

I, like everyone who been a Puppy user over the years, am aware of the many changes in PC capacity and Internet speeds (even for dial-up).

The addition of a tool to make it easy for the growth of Puppy/Linux ranks should never be considered bloat or a negative reference to discourage any additional functionality that would improve overall operations, ease of use, or ease of expansion.

This is my personal view and does NOT represent anything other than that.

Thus anyone making any suggestions to this thread should do so with the ONLY regard of referencing whether we can increase the comfort level for those of lesser means within the Puppy community.

For the sake of discussion, please disregard any inference to size and focus solely of ideas that might improve user acceptance.

disciple wrote:

jpeps wrote:I don't know why anyone would bother with a linux OS that didn't enjoy the learning curve.

Are you joking?
There is less learning curve with Puppy than with Windows... or most devices for that matter.

I don't know many people who were brought up using Linux computers, so for most it's a choice to learn something different.

sickgut wrote:it just requires you to relearn, i bet you where befuddled the first time you used a windows desktop?

also in linux you need to learn what the equivalent windows program is such as:

windows vs linux:

photoshop = gimp

Or Gimpshop...

One problem may be that somebody that is used to linux
very easily forget how it looks like from the total beginner view.

So many things that one have no clue on what is expected as next step.
one click or two click. left or right clock on the mouse. To drag somehting
by holding it and then moving the mouse. many things that one don't know.

I got a Knoppix CD around 2003. I got Ubuntu CD around 2006
I tried Puppy around 2008 and maybe only around 2010 I began
to feel a bit more confident that I could skip Ms Win XP and the other
such huge OS and go over to Puppy for good. Still 2011 and now 2012
there are very many things I have no clue on what so ever. Trust me
I am not a total noob but I know very little still despite daily usage.

So sure it is hard but it is very personal in that some learn fast and
others never learn