How To Stabilize Puppy?

[johnywhy]

Revised post:

I love puppy linux. Been my daily OS for a year. I love how small and fast it is.

But it seems that, after a while, as I personalize and configure, and install more pets and SFS's, eventually something in the OS breaks. I keep backups of my pupsave file, which I use to restore the OS if it breaks. But why is it so easy to break? Is it just me, or my hardware?

To rule out hardware defects, I'm going to run UBCD. Will also verify my downloads.

My recent crash on saluki 022 on unplugging a usb can be ignored for the moment-- saluki 022 is an unstable preview.
http://saluki-linux.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82

Today I rebooted slacko 5.3.3, and all the icons I had removed from the desktop are back (in a jumbled mess, btw). I've experienced that with other puppies. Again, not going to report until I check my hardware and downloads.

Had a crash last night in a 3-hour old install of slacko, but again will wait for results of hardware defect scan.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 427#630427

Anyway, just wondering what others are experiencing.

Thanks!

[nilsonmorales]

i am newbie too
maybe in the chat could help you
irc chat channel #puppylinux
take care

[johnywhy]

Thanks. I'm actually not looking for support on any specific issue in this thread. Just wanted to hear how others keep their puppies stable.

[aarf]

i have been using puppy solidly for a number of years and dont recall this usb removal crash ever happening. not even for accidental removal of mounted drives. havent used the most recent salukis but was in there solidly before.

[johnywhy]

It's great that for you, all puppies are stable.

[aarf]

If you have not used the latest saluki, then are you saying all puppies are the same in this regard?

no, saying it may be a hardware issue.

[johnywhy]

You mean hardware incompatibility or hardware dysfunction?

dysfunction is possible. This netbook got knocked a few times. Is there any sort of hardware scan available?

How can I check the puppy event log or error log or USB log?

Sorry for my frustration.

Thanks!

[Puppyt]

johnywhy, I always go to UBCD first whenever I "inherit" a new computer, or suspect systemic hardware failures: http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/. Sometimes cracking open the case for a spring-clean with canned air, checking cable/leads/card connections on the motherboard can be useful too.
There's a "Puppy Rescue CD" around too on the forums, but I regret I haven't tried it yet.
HTH

P.S. One of my first forays into Linux several years ago fried my USB stick - literally the thing melted and smoked while I was trying to install from a live cd onto the hdd of the desktop computer. Turns out it was a bad USB header - and then the mobo disintegrated anyways with that capacitor plague. Don't know whether this site might help usb-specific issues http://www.linux-usb.org/usbtest/.

[p310don]

From your post on the Saluki forum, did you try the same with Saluki 21?

For puppy to crash on unplugging a cable-- sorry, that's just amateur.

I've got to disagree here, when you're using what is clearly stated as an unstable/preview release you can't say its amateur. That is the nature of unstable releases / alphas / betas.

To say that puppy is unstable, what other events have happened for you to say that puppy as a whole is unstable? I have not experienced issues with this install of puppy 5.2x for 18 months of continuous use.

[johnywhy]

Please see my revised OP.

[greengeek]

Sorry to see you are having so many issues - hope you get a resolution soon.

There is one issue with Puppy that I have repeatedly had problems with, and it could potentially have caused the Saluki problem you mentioned:

Puppy does not give you real information about when a USB write completes. Example: if you copy a series of files from hard drive to usb you will see a copy dialog on screen listing all of the files as they are copied. Eventually the copy dialog will close, implying that the copy has finished. However, the copy has NOT finished. If you have a USB stick with an LED you will see that the LED keeps flashing long after the copy dialog has disappeared off screen.

This is particularly true if a usb stick has a slow "write speed" (as most do...). Even the more expensive usb sticks can have very slow write times.

So, my advice when using puppy is: ONLY USE USB STICKS THAT HAVE A VERY VISIBLE LED... and be very very patient about pulling usb sticks out. Sad to say, but windows is better than puppy in this regard. (Wash my mouth out with soap and water..)

USB sticks that have no LED give you absolutely no idea exactly when the data transfer finishes on Puppy. It's a real headache.

[dk60902]

It's unfortunate that you are experiencing crashes. Good luck. I hope you can get to the bottom of it. Perhaps the hardware scan can give you some insight.

I have had great luck with stability on Puppy. I've been using Lupu for the last year or so (5.28 for the last 6-7 months). Recently, I've used Slacko 5.3.2.4 for the last 4 weeks and have not experienced any crashes. For Slacko, I'm running a live CD with a save file stored on my HD. It's a Dell Vostro 200 with a Pentium Dual Core. I run 5.2.8 as a frugal install on my HD on my HP a800n Pavillion. Then, I have a shitty Dell Dimension 8800 that I hate at my office. Windows XP runs like molasses, and Puppy 5.25 or 5.28 runs tolerably . I have to ctrl-alt-bksp at least one day because it will to freeze up.

[tommy]

greengeek ,
linux / unix kernel uses 'write cache' to write on media (floppy, usb, hard disc etc.). When the copy dialog finishes, data *may* be still in cache (ram), but after a period of time, the cache will be flushed on the media (completing the copy action). This is THE way linux copy things. This is why there is a very famous command line program:

sync

google for its use.

Sync will immediately flush the write cache on the media. The command umount will also perform a 'sync' automatically before unmounting media, so the way to UNPLUG a usb stick (or a floppy etc) after a copy is: umount the usb mountpoint, then unplug!

You can also edit the file /etc/fstab and add the 'sync' parameter to USB mountpoints, google for howto.

Bye!

[greengeek]

The command umount will also perform a 'sync' automatically before unmounting media, so the way to UNPLUG a usb stick (or a floppy etc) after a copy is: umount the usb mountpoint, then unplug!

Trouble is, when the copy dialog disappears you can unmount the stick and it will still be in the middle of the copy. Windows will at least tell you that you must not remove yet, but this doesn't happen in Puppy.

[tommy]

greengeek wrote:

Trouble is, when the copy dialog disappears you can unmount the stick and it will still be in the middle of the copy.

You are right especially with slow devices AND big copies. I have no-led USB sticks and I'm concerned with this problem, too.
What I do in these cases is :

copy BIG files to USB
open console.
#sync

after pressing enter you will see an empty line below '#sync' .

That empty line means: I'm still flushing to USB, I've not finished yet...

When flushing is finished (it will take even a minute or so) it will appear a prompt '#' below the blank line. That means 'end of flushing'. Wait for that # to perform umount & unplug USB stick. To be sure, wait another minute ... Hope you're not always in a hurry

[Karl Godt]

ROX-Filer is using a lot of CPU resources when displaying any copies .

Every files gets mentioned there .

It is possible to check the box "Brief" i think additionally to "Still" and not that many files get displayed .

I think that is a inconvenience in ROX, that could be adjusted in the source code by hopefully simply change some 'FALSE' values to 'True' for the checkboxes .

I am using ROX nearly never to copy directories anymore that are lets say 2 MB+ recursive in size .

The sync command is nice to know . I am unfortunately a slow person, so have not encountered that i did unplug a USB too soon . Most USB have LED but some very tiny and they are nearly invisible in daylight environment or point to a direction you have to walk around the PC to see them .

I prefer rsync command over cp but use cp still a lot, because it is simply easy to type .

I must confess, the terminal is my main GUI .

sync actually is a libc command :
http://linux.die.net/man/2/sync
http://linux.die.net/man/3/sync
and i guess included in the various filemanagers like Thunar,ROX,etc
but :

The sync() function shall cause all information in memory that updates file systems to be scheduled for writing out to all file systems.

The writing, although scheduled, is not necessarily complete upon return from sync().

Return Value
The sync() function shall not return a value.



And as usual, check the tightness of the USB fittings . Even windows would fail if the USB gets accidentially touched and looses the contact for a millisecond .

Perhaps its time for some Puppy or Computing-In-General Off Vacation .

[greengeek]

after pressing enter you will see an empty line below '#sync' .That empty line means: I'm still flushing to USB, I've not finished yet...When flushing is finished (it will take even a minute or so) it will appear a prompt '#' below the blank line. That means 'end of flushing'

Nice tip - thanks! I would definitely like to see a gui improvement so that the "on-screen" copy progress would not indicate a complete copy until the copy/flushing is in fact totally finished.

And as usual, check the tightness of the USB fittings . Even windows would fail if the USB gets accidentially touched and looses the contact for a millisecond

Yes, it is a problem especially with big usb sticks - the cat always comes and sits on them. I wish I could find a source for some very short usb extension cables - maybe 5cm in length? Just enough to take the physical pressure off the usb port.

[RetroTechGuy]

greengeek wrote:

Trouble is, when the copy dialog disappears you can unmount the stick and it will still be in the middle of the copy.

You are right especially with slow devices AND big copies. I have no-led USB sticks and I'm concerned with this problem, too.
What I do in these cases is :

copy BIG files to USB
open console.
#sync

after pressing enter you will see an empty line below '#sync' .

That empty line means: I'm still flushing to USB, I've not finished yet...

When flushing is finished (it will take even a minute or so) it will appear a prompt '#' below the blank line. That means 'end of flushing'. Wait for that # to perform umount & unplug USB stick. To be sure, wait another minute ... Hope you're not always in a hurry :)

At least on the newer versions (I'm using 5.28), when you unmount, the "dot" won't disappear until the drive is fully unmounted and flushed.

[whoguy]

Hi OP,

I've used puppy 4.00 to 5.28 and all have been rock solid. There have been times when a hard power off can corrupt the user file and cause all sorts of dramas.... no task bar, web browser goes blocky.. etc.

I'd recommend using Microsoft's Ram tester to rule out any hardware issues first which can be found here

http://pcsupport.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi= ... indiag.asp

I know it's Microsoft and who doesn't hate Microsoft, but from past experience in the IT manufacturing industry, I've found this software to stress memory enough to show a failure, whereas most other memory tests show a clean bill of health.

A friend of mine had issues and it was due to an acumulation of dust on the motherboard, ram and PCI cards... a good vacuum and crashing seems to have stopped.

Also, make sure your hard drive is 100% as well, however I run puppy on a damaged hard drive and it copes with it very well. (Son likes to bash laptops!)

Rule out all hardware possibilities first before blaming the software. Alot of hardware and software error correction can mask underlying problems, so it can be tricky to pinpoint the problem.

Cheers
Brian

[johnywhy]

I'd recommend using Microsoft's Ram tester

thanks a lot Brian. do you think this tool must be run from windows? i'm trying to run in wine, in saluki, and i'm getting

Code: Select all

err:module:import_dll Library MFC42.DLL

i imagine i could copy this dll from my old win box, but would it still be a meaningful test?

best,
j

update, installed winetricks pet and Visual C++ 6.0 run-time components http://support.microsoft.com/kb/259403, but not seeing MFC42.DLL in winecfg. Same error on trying to run Ram tester. Will keep trying stuff. On saluki.