(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

May, 1st

Have a nice International Workers' Day.

I'm not going to change a thing, I plan to goof off the whole day.

Uh, when is International Retired Workers' Day
or
International Unemployed Workers' Day
or
International Welfare Recipients' Day

Semantically speaking, if you're unemployed or retired I don't think you can be called a worker. Welfare I'm not so sure about. Many people employed by Wal-mart are paid so little that they qualify for food stamps and other government assistance.

The self-employed are not workers either, not according to the capitalist .01% who own the means of production. If you're not employed by one of their factories, you're not part of the "real" economy. Surplus to their requirements.

Speaking of the economy, I might add that most economists seem to define inflation as when wages increase.

Flash wrote:Semantically speaking, if you're unemployed or retired I don't think you can be called a worker.

But, you may have been, and thus can participate in the celebration of workers.

Welfare I'm not so sure about. Many people employed by Wal-mart are paid so little that they qualify for food stamps and other government assistance.

I've met many people on welfare who consider it their major source of employment(i.e., their source of income).

Opps, how would we classify the "workers' who make money under the table while receiving welfare, food stamps, AFDC, Section 8 and medicaid

tlchost wrote:

Flash wrote:Semantically speaking, if you're unemployed or retired I don't think you can be called a worker.

But, you may have been, and thus can participate in the celebration of workers.

Welfare I'm not so sure about. Many people employed by Wal-mart are paid so little that they qualify for food stamps and other government assistance.

I've met many people on welfare who consider it their major source of employment(i.e., their source of income).

Opps, how would we classify the "workers' who make money under the table while receiving welfare, food stamps, AFDC, Section 8 and medicaid

When I was working as a TV tech the boss received a substantial amount from the government to employ me, that lasted 6months then I was made a full time permanent employee, having a wife and four children to support, I approached the boss with a form for him to fill out so I could claim a social security payment, he couldn't understand why I would be receiving the payment, I educated him to the fact the the pay I get is under the poverty line.

Don't forget even the wealthy cry poor, claiming welfare in the form of tax breaks, tax write offs and negative gearing investments.

Geoffrey wrote:When I was working as a TV tech the boss received a substantial amount from the government to employ me, that lasted 6months then I was made a full time permanent employee, having a wife and four children to support, I approached the boss with a form for him to fill out so I could claim a social security payment, he couldn't understand why I would be receiving the payment, I educated him to the fact the the pay I get is under the poverty line.

Hmmm, everytime I have been underpaid, I either negotiated more money, or left for another job that paid more.

And after a while, I went off on my own, and became one of the evil capitalists....and actually created jobs for others.

We're not all cut out to be Job Creators. That doesn't mean that we're available to be exploited to the max. Were you able to pay the people who worked for you enough to live on?

Speaking from a fair bit of knowledge of that stuff... welfare as it's 'known' and referred to still was ended under the Clinton administration. Remember the whole "ending welfare as we know it" thing? They actually really did.

What's left is called TANF. (Pronounced "TAN-iff".) Temporary Aid to Needy Families. What you get depends on where you live. While it's a federally-funded program, it's administered by the states...

I live in North Carolina. Here are the rules for NC's "Work First" program, our implementation of TANF...

(1) A single-parent family of three earning more than $8,172/year is ineligible for Work First / TANF assistance. Working 39 hours per week, 52 weeks of the year (probably fairly typical for eg a Wal*Mart employee) that works out to just over $4.29 per hour -- considerably less than the $7.25 minimum wage here!

(2) You can have no more than $3000 in assets (this is property -- stuff you theoretically can sell to pay your bills, potentially (it's not clear) including your home...). This excludes one vehicle per adult... and that's it.

(3) You must find some work of some sort after two years. 24 months go by and you have no job, hit the road Jack...

(4) You can receive no more than $272/mo in benefits from Work First. Your yearly cap is $3,264 (a full year of monthly maximums).

(5) Regardless of what you get, you can receive it for a cumulative lifetime total of 60 months. Five years. That's all you get.

Source --> http://www.nccp.org/profiles/NC_profile_36.html
It's a little out of date (2007), but it's at least readable, unlike the insanely long and confusing PDF that NC puts up on the relevant website. I'm not even going to link to that PDF, it's not hard to find if you really want a bad case of eyestrain and brain-hurt.

My household's total income right now is roughly $1730. We are too rich for food stamps (SNAP, Supplemental Nutritional Aid Program), unless we want to do some really ridiculous things so that we can apply separately. Anti-fraud regulations put in by fear-mongering politicians (there is no real actual meaningful fraud here, just made-up I-heard-it-from-Sally-who-heard-it-from-Bob [except that nobody heard it from anyone because it's all imagination] anecdotal bullcrap) basically mean that we would have to keep separate pantries and refrigerators for myself, my mother, and stuff we share... we would have to purchase everything according to that as well (meaning I'd be the guy with three separate purchases every single grocery trip, since I do all of the shopping)... and I would not be able to eat anything purchased with Mom's food stamps (and vice versa) although anything we didn't buy with food stamps at all, we could share. To be blunt: eff that, it's stupid and ridiculous.

The overwhelmingly vast majority of people who work at eg Wal*Mart and are on food stamps and other financial assistance programs genuinely need it because they are not paid enough. Period. That *IS* the only reason that they have it. Choosing not to believe that doesn't change it, it just makes you incorrect and in denial.

By the way, someone very smart (I've sadly forgotten who it is) figured out how much it would cost for Wal*Mart to pay their employees a living wage (the amount they'd need to live within their means). If they did that and passed the entire cost onto their customers (which would be rather shameful IMO, particularly given the fact that the Walton family is so wealthy they're practically drowning in the stuff) -- the average Wal*Mart customer would pay an increased cost of $0.65 per shopping trip.

Even I can pay an extra sixty-five cents once a week for my groceries... and you want to blame the /workers/...? "I don't think so, Tim!"

tlchost wrote:Hmmm, everytime I have been underpaid, I either negotiated more money, or left for another job that paid more.

And after a while, I went off on my own, and became one of the evil capitalists....and actually created jobs for others.

It's a bit hard to negotiate when the employer uses the system to get cheap labour, it's their terms of employment.

Not everyone has the luxury to become evil.

Geoffrey wrote:
It's a bit hard to negotiate when the employer uses the system to get cheap labour, it's their terms of employment.

Then, leave.

tlchost wrote:

Geoffrey wrote:
It's a bit hard to negotiate when the employer uses the system to get cheap labour, it's their terms of employment.

Then, leave.

I, Did.

tlchost wrote:

Geoffrey wrote:
Hmmm, everytime I have been underpaid, I either negotiated more money, or left for another job that paid more.

This works well if the economy is doing well. I remember threatening to leave IBM if they did not give me a raise and they responded rapidly. Right now in the US, job hopping is a bit harder than it was

This works well if you can do something that employers need and are willing to pay you more for. If you don't know how to do anything but manual labor, you're at the mercy of employers.

And by the way, did you know that Microsoft, Intel and other high-tech firms in Silicon Valley conspired to keep down wages of their tech employees?

I know that some, here, express a feeling of negative view of the poor and those who have trouble finding work. That view as was pointed out is wrong-sighted although there are many who have had politicians persuade them otherwise.

I find it very interesting that along with the "international Workers Day" the Pope offers us this good request.